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Weaning

Find weaning advice from other Mumsnetters on our Weaning forum. Use our child development calendar for more information.

Weaning at 4 months

94 replies

stressheaderic · 28/06/2010 16:37

Would anyone here like to admit to it?

I have one DD, 18 weeks old (4mo + 1 wk). On the lower end of the weight scale at just 11lb 8oz, but following the 2nd centile steadily. Have been bombarded with the 'wait til 6 months' brigade for weeks now.

But - she's hungry. She's been downing her 8oz bottles in minutes, grabbing at our food, waking up unsettled in the night. So, this morning, I gave her some baby rice. And she wolfed down the whole bowlful, swallowed each little mouthful really well, filled her nappy, and then relaxed into the deepest, longest sleep she's had for ages.

I went with my instinct, and I was right. I thought I'd feel bad about it but I don't.
Did anyone else offer food 'early'? And how did you get on?

OP posts:
mamaloco · 01/07/2010 16:11

bumble one of the ladies on the feb 2010 postnatal group had a problem of intolerance with dairy and it sounds similar to yor case. Low weight and runny greeny poos. If you want to find her post it is quite recent. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/966213-FEB-2010-No-longer-newborns?reverse=1

Bumbleconfusus · 01/07/2010 16:33

I would have thought about an intolerance, except my diet has never changed since she was born, and she was fine at 16 weeks (would only go once or twice a week, nice thick consistency), then on the tuesday that week she suddenly had green poo, which went away after about a week back to yellow, but just extremely liquidy. Dr said it wasn't a bug, but we don't know why so we were just hoping... think I will phone HV again
Thanks for the thread link, I already lurk silently there

PlasticCenturion · 01/07/2010 17:04

"I agree that the weaning doesn't improved the sleep patterns but it does stop the night feeds"

Hahahahahahahahahahahah

hahahahahahahahahahaha

That was hysteria btw.

"Only the mum knows if the baby is ready or not". I'd like to know how? My SIL maintains that dn was 'ready' at 12 weeks. What does she know that research doesn't?

mamaloco · 01/07/2010 17:35

for most children weaning means they stop the milk at night that doesn't mean they don't wake up, need confort or take thier mum boobs for dummies. but it does depend how much they eat/drink during the day if it is little they will have to compensate with night feeds.
Also I am talking of normal responsible informed mums, no baby is ready at 12 weeks!

cleo78 · 01/07/2010 19:11

Wow! I really didn't think I was going to find such controversy here!!
Just wrote a whole long messgae but have decided to delete. Before i 'rant' away again, I'm going to post my queries in the hope of advice:

  • when you first start weaning, how much food are you giving and how frequently? My DS seems to just love his food and weaning is going so well, but we've yet to find our feet! I'm still trying to figure out when we're going to give milk or food etc and how much! Also, should i be giving him water? We live abroad, in a very hot climate and I'm a bit worried that he won't take any water at all. Every time i try, he throws a hissy fit and ends up throwing up any water which he has actually taken in!!

Right...my rant! This is something that has bothered me since I first joined mumsnet when my dS was born- I am totally and utterly shocked at how unhelpful (and rude??) some people can be on here. From the above, I hope you realise that I do hold government guidelines in high regard, but at the same time I really feel strongly that they are just that- guidelines. Parents have to make their own decisions based on them, and I do believe that 'gut' instinct does come into play in many cases. As an intelligent woman, I feel that I have the right to do what I feel is best for my child. I refer to guidelines and do my research- part of which is usually to have a look at what people are saying on here. Sorry, but I don't think rudeness etc are very helpful! You'll notice I haven't put the age of my DS, as it's almost irrelevant. The fact is that I've started weaning and I can't/ don't want to change that. Posting the facts is a good idea, but it's the other comments that I'm having a hard time with. In my experience, parenting seems to be full of guilt, so why are we as parents compounding that even more?
Maybe my 'theories' fall flat on their backside when I read about mums feeding pureed chicken nuggets to their babies, but there we go!!!!

omnishambles · 01/07/2010 21:09

Its because theres a big difference between instinct and proven researched facts - your instinct may be to smoke but it will go in the fact of scientific evidence that it is harmful. In fact it used to be thought good for you.

Basically noone really cares what individuals do though yes they do raise an eyebrow - after all they are tiny babies for such a small time - whats the rush? But the reason posters get frustrated is that there are a lot of lurkers here and so the proper advice should always be spelt out - just as with the back to sleep campaign or car seat use etc.

If you are bf then they dont need water no - just more bf.

sharon11 · 01/07/2010 22:44

This really annoys me!! We are always being told every child is unique and will develop at different stages, so why not weaning... I was advised by my HV not to wean my baby until he was 6 months old. Also, reading the weaning section on this site made me feel like a bad mum for even considering it. However, I knew my baby was ready, the basic signs were there - and as his mum I just knew. So, at 20 weeks i started him on baby rice (once a day), slowly adding some pureed fruit. Two weeks on and he is thriving. I am using Anabel Karmel's complete baby planner as a guide (highly recommended - lots of recipes and good info). I am really happy with my decision to wean when I did and don't feel guilty at all, so neither should you.

lovely74 · 01/07/2010 23:10

What worries me is that people tend to see the 4 month regression as a sign that their baby is ready for solids when it's not. I get reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally annoyed when this is reinforced by books / magazines (Like lovely old Annabel Karmel I'm afraid, but I've already done a thread on THAT, and this months Prima M and B magazine). We had an awful time when DS reached 4 months with night waking, but then so did lots of my friends, and when I came on here to start a thread to get some advice there were already loads of other threads saying the same thing.

I am definitely in the minority amongst my friends to have not tried solids till 25 weeks (when I put sprouts and carrots in front of him and sat back...!)but the fact is milk, breast or formula, is the most calorific food your child will have so if they are hungry, then they need more of this, not a bit of carrot puree. Even now at 8,5 months and eating 3 meals a day my DS still wakes at night for a BF. Right now it's hot, he's thirsty and that's his drink. More food isn;t going to stop that.

Weaning seems to be the one thing that people feel a real need to get started before 6 months despite the current advice and I don't really understand why. They are babies for such a short length of time why the rush? Although I definitely accept that is some cases such as severe reflux weaning early will help.

Phew, sorry about that rant!

mamaloco · 02/07/2010 07:03

Cleo what a sensible post. I get sometime really upset at those mums who make you feel guilty of your decisions even if they are the right one for you (even sometimes when have back up from the medical profession).
Mostly we are all here for advices not for being flamed and made feel even worse.
I had one clever HV in the UK, who told me the guidelines must be strictly followed by people who thinks it is OK to feed chips/chocolate or put tea in your baby bottle. For the rest they are just guidelines. Even BLISS recommended weaning prem between 5 and 7 months (not corrected).

I live in a hot climate too (at least in summer). If your baby is BF, offer the breast more he won't need water. If bottle fed, offer some water if he doesn't take it you can try diluted milk or even normal milk more often if he is on the skinny side. But usually a thirsty baby will take the water.

after a month of weaning purees (home made so not sure about the exact quantities), DD2 has some at 12h and some at 18h usually top up with a bit of water and them a small bottle of milk, she takes about half the milk she usually has (amount of food is about 3 ice cubes, may be 2 soup spoons?).

Igglybuff · 02/07/2010 07:25

No one can make you feel guilty for choices you have made regarding your child. Yes they can judge but you choose whether or not to get defensive or guilty about it.

If you've already made up your mind to wean at 4 months or whenever, then come on MN and get upset about people expressing their opinion as to whether or not they agree, why get upset? You know you've made the right decision so don't let it bother you

mamaloco · 02/07/2010 07:55

Yes YGGi, I agree, I don't feel guilty, I am sure I have made the right choice for my DDs (I have the back up of the MW and pead as well, and DD2 clearly let me know what she wanted too). But I have lurked on some threads and saw some nasty comments and upset mums.

cleo78 · 02/07/2010 08:55

Thanks for the reassurance re: giving water! I decided there was no point in pushing it, but as he's either in very drying AC or outside in 40 degrees most of the time, was a bit worried! Thats probably the biggest thing I had to 'learn' as a parent: trust my instinct and let my DS lead the way. he seems to have pretty good judgement (joke!).

PlasticCenturion · 02/07/2010 09:46

Can I just clarify my pov here? I in no way intend to make anybody feel guilty. Nobody can make you feel guilty if you've made the right decision by your child.

What is particularly difficult for many posters- and I include myself in this - is that this topic is discussed again and again and many myths are touted as fact (as I pointed out earlier things like the size of a baby or it needing night feeds being anything to do with weaning readiness). And what we know is that there are more lurkers than posters on MN so good, factual advice and info should be offered alongside opinion.

The most erroneous thing reiterated time and again is the rigidity of the guidelines. Let me stress here that they are 'guidelines' not rules. People who counter their usefulness with 'but aren't all babies different' aren't acknowledging that they don't say all babies must be weaned exactly at 26 weeks. You will see that the official guidelines say 'around six months' and 'at about six months' and then documents the signs that they are ready. The official guidelines explain that the waking up more between 3 and 5 months thing is a red herring and states that the true external signs of gut maturity are sitting up, development of a pincer grasp, ability to put food in their mouth and chew and swallow with a loss of the tongue thrust reflex. They advise that you watch your child, that you know these signs and that you respond to them as an individual. It actively encourages responding to your baby when it shows the signs of readiness and enjoying the process at a time when they are developmentally ready for it.

And instinct. Yes, as I said earlier, instinct is a very important tool in all aspects of parenting and my first port of call. You are right to look at the research and guidelines and then judge your baby's needs alongside this using your own discretion. But like I said earlier there are many of us who have heard instinct trotted out almost as an excuse. My SIL and her very early weaning ideas are not unique. 'Mummy knows best' is rolled out as the reasoning for many poor parenting decisions and in areas such as weaning it's important to acknowledge what 'instinct' means. Because yes you read the minute cues and signs displayed by your baby. You know before anybody that they are unsettled or perhaps not as content as before. Others may not notice. They're rooting more often, settled less, just fractionally altered. Yes instinct tells you your baby is changing, developing more suddenly, rolling and babbling is taking it out of them, they need more. But research and good sense tells us that they need more calories in this instance. We have no window into their guts. Perhaps they are not sitting unaided, still have the tongue thrust reflex. You know that milk has the calories in it, it's there in your breasts (or bottle) and will provide them with what they need and you avoid any question of gut readiness. You respond to the cues with the information available to you.

And I do take exception to all encompassing statements such as 'weaning will stop night feeds'. Because research just does not show this to be true. And I don't mean comfort sucking in the night. Milk remains the main source of nutrition for 12 months. Milk is always offered before food. Night feeds are still when some of the best milk is made in terms of bfing. It's night feeds that are still important in helping your breasts respond to your baby's changing needs. And when somebody reads that weaning should have stopped the night feeds, perhaps they panic that they aren't offering enough solids. Solids are NOT a replacement, they are a complement. They are not meant to signify the end of milk feeds. Milk feeds should remain to requirement and in the second 6 months of a child's life the developmental changes, the still small size of their stomachs and factors such as the heat for example, mean that night feeds are still very important. Yes some babies don't need them but if your child does then that's fine and normal. We must acknowledge that instead of making women feel they are doing something wrong or failing the weaning process if their child is still dependent upon milk. This is as it should be.

Weaning is an enjoyable process and one that we all do differently. It's also a very emotive subject and one that many people feel judged for. Truly, the ones that wait are also made to feel guilty for 'starving that poor baby'. Nobody in parenting gets off scott free it seems. And it's also very difficult because nobody's experience in general terms can inform somebody elses. I can say 'well I did this and dd is fine' but that's just an anecdote. The body of research is there for a reason and provides this need for an awareness of what is true and normal for the majority with a nod to scientific basis and objectivity. We are all in the midst of it and as is demonstrated here, all stand by our ways as the right way. Which they are. For us.

Do I judge people for weaning before 26 weeks? Not a speck. Are many babies ready before 26 weeks? Absolutely. Are many babies weaned before they are ready? Well yes.

All people try to do time and again on these threads is dispel the myths and offer the facts. It can be frustrating and it's a timely lesson to remember to temper your responses accordingly. We are all just parents trying to do our very best.

I'm sorry if I inadvertantly offended anybody.

omnishambles · 02/07/2010 09:50

What a brilliant post PlasticCenturion - very well explained

yangymac · 02/07/2010 10:20

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yangymac · 02/07/2010 10:21

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RunningOutOfIdeas · 02/07/2010 10:59

Yangymac, your DD sounds a bit like mine. Gaviscon did not really help my DD's reflux so she was put on ranitidine at 8 weeks. By 15 weeks she was wanting more and more milk, however if I increased the amount I gave her in one feed she simply vomited the extra straight back up. I was feeding her every hour.

So I started her on some baby rice and then gradually moved to simple fruit and vegetable purees. She was never sick after a 'solid' meal, only after milk.

DD was dairy intolerant (not picked up in any tests). We only worked it out when she started getting eczema after trying her with cheese and yogurt at 6 months. If your DD is cows milk protein intolerant, you may find that she can tolerate cooked dairy long before she can tolerate uncooked. So a cheese sauce will go down better than a yogurt.

Having written all this, of course every reflux baby is different. Starting weaning early was definitely the right thing to do for my DD. She was much happier and I was less covered in vomit! But you will have to do what feels right for you. I think you are right to start with very simple purees (remember banana can be consitpating so might be worth avoiding).

I have read the research suggesting that starting weaning too late appears to be as associated with allergies and intolerances as starting too early. However this does not hold for gluten. So please stay well away from wheat and othe gluten containing grains until after 6 months.

PlasticCenturion · 02/07/2010 11:07

yangymac, what advice have you been given?

My dn has reflux quite badly and started solids at 21 weeks under the advice of the paed she is seeing. She is 36 weeks now and the reflux is no better. I saw SIL yesterday and she's finding it very hard. DN is still on purees but they are coming back up minutes after swallowing them. They suspect, however, that something else is happening and she is being investigated for allergies/intolerances. AFAIK they have only ever been given gaviscon. I wonder if something like ranitidine would help?

It sounds really difficult for you. DN is the sunniest, happiest child though despite the reflux.

yangymac · 02/07/2010 11:49

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yangymac · 02/07/2010 11:51

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PlasticCenturion · 02/07/2010 11:57

Do you need to introduce formula?

Sitting up, loss of tongue thrust reflex, pincer grip etc all brilliant signs. If they can pick it up, put it in their mouths, chew and swallow, the theory is their gut can cope with it. Food obviously, dust and soil not so much.

It's annoying that you have to go private for the testing. I didn't know quite how severe reflux could be until I saw dn. My dd possetted a normal amount so had no experience of anything like reflux. DN has a clothes change (or two, or three) after each feed. It must be exhausting for you.

yangymac · 02/07/2010 12:02

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yangymac · 02/07/2010 12:02

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nowherewoman · 02/07/2010 12:18

My friend weaned at 17 weeks, her ds did start to sleep better initially, then went back to sleeping really, really badly.

cleo78 · 02/07/2010 12:30

Plasticenturion- i hope I didn't offend- it wasn't you in particular I was talking about! And thanks for the really informative post btw!

yangymac, my DS is just over 5 months, and I waited for as long as I could, but it was the reflux, and the sheer determination on his part to get at food in any way shape or form!!!!

Have to say, that i was glad I waited as it didn't instantly make him sleep through the night or stop his reflux- infact I'm kind of missing the days when it was only milk that I had to clean up!!!! BUT, I have not doubt he was ready for food, as I had waited for all the signs e.g the ones mentioned above.

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