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Weaning

Find weaning advice from other Mumsnetters on our Weaning forum. Use our child development calendar for more information.

Breast Feeding and weaning...help!! Too much contradicting advice!

35 replies

traceface · 01/06/2009 12:57

Hello!
Can anyone help? My 24 week old has been BF this far and has always been a frequent feeder. Her pattern had kind of settled as:
7am BF
10am BF
1pm BF
4pm BF
5.30pm BF
6.30pm BF
10pm BF
1am BF
4am BF

I started weaning 2 weeks ago and have now built up to solids 3 times a day (but only 2 cubes of veg/ fruit at each meal). The way I have slotted them in the day looks like this:
7am breakfast then BF
10am BF
11.30 lunch then BF
2.30pm BF
5pm tea and BF
6.30pm BF
11pm BF
3am BF

one HV has told me to keep offering BF after solids and at usual BF times. Aother has told me to keep up the inbetween BFs but don't BF after solids. Another has told me to offer BF after solids but cut out the inbetween ones. They said she is getting too much milk. She has always refused any kind of bottle/beaker/cup so even though I offer a cup of water every time I give her solids, she is actually not getting any fluid other than my BF and what is in the veg puree. What should I do?????? any advice gratefully accepted (i doubt it could confuse me any more than I already am!)
Thank you

OP posts:
tiktok · 03/06/2009 13:56

ooooh, a chance to defend myself

ck - I have responded on another thread to a long and almost entirely fact-free post of yours, so will try to keep this brief.

I never offer my opinion as fact - never, ever. If I offer my opinion, it is clearly flagged as my opinion only.

I used 'crisps' with a !! as an example of foods with a high salt content, and I was being ironic as obv these are not suitable for a baby.

You have so many things wrong in your post, and far from merely sharing your opinion,you proceed to lay the law down with a mish-mash of half-understood rubbish about instinct.

Baby-led approaches to solids is not 'making the baby wait' - far from it.

I am stopping here. You'd do better to post less and read more.

RachaelandAgatha · 03/06/2009 18:49

The research about the mineral and energy content of breastmilk is here www.who.int/nutrition/publications/infantfeeding/9241562110/en/index.html.

It is the WHO report on the nutritional content of breastmilk and points out that the iron levels in a breastfed baby drop off slowly after 6 months not 3 months, I draw your attention to the last paragraph in the section on iron levels on page 36. It clearly refers to the second half of infancy, that is 6 months plus.

The overloading the gut comments given previously are also somewhat scientifically dubious, if you wish to read all about food allergies and the link to the undeveloped human gut check out "Pediatric Allergy Asthma and Immunology" published by Springer, look at chapter 9, its available as a Google book.

This comprehensive review of the literature on the subject clearly states that in "infants of a few months old" the levels of immunoglobulin are low and thus exposure to macromolecules (large food molecules) in the blood is more likely to sensitize the infant to the food. The large food molecules get to the blood more easily in infants because there are larger gaps between the intestinal epithelial cells. This has nothing to do with the lumpiness of the food as someone said earlier but the stuff the food is made of, different proteins.

In plain english, feed your baby solid food too young (or liquid cows milk) and you risk them developing a food allergy and subsequent linked disorders such as asthma and excema because the digested bits of food trigger the immune system in a way that doesn't happen in older kids with more developed immune systems.

This is an ongoing area of research and some scientists (I've seen one paper on this) have argued the opposite saying that delaying exposure to solids well past 6 months can actually increase the likelihood of allergies as you haven't primed the immune system through a gradual exposure to quantities of these proteins. Breastfed infants get some of these proteins all the time from their mum's diet which is why some babies get intestinal problems if their mum has a sensitivity to cows milk and eats dairy products.

The point of BLW is that human infants have evolved so that their manual dexterity (food handling ability) goes hand in hand with their guts and immune system's ability to tolerate solids and the associated proteins that get into their blood. Giving puree to a 4 month old who cannot hold food, chew or swallow solid bits is introducing food at an age when the baby's gut and immune system are not ready for it. Waiting until the child can handle their own food and feed themselves at a couple of months or so older reduces this risk as (so the theory goes) humans have evolved successfully to cope with digesting solid food when they can get it to their mouth, chew and swallow it by themselves.

Allergies can be triggered by a huge range of foods (pork, berries, citrus, wheat, dairy, eggs, fish, shellfish, food additives, literally hundreds of things). Cows milk is a well researched trigger but not by any means the only one. The reason everyone makes a big deal about cows milk is because people used to feed it to small babies instead of human milk.

At the risk of sounding really up my own arse here, if you don't understand the science contained in these documents linked above you should not be giving advice or opinions on these things to anyone.

P.S. The NHS guidelines clearly state exclusively breastfeed for 6 months then introduce solid foods, they have information about giving babies finger foods and purees. I have their booklet in front of me. BLW is not therefore contradictory to government advice.

plimple · 03/06/2009 20:46

one HV has told me to keep offering BF after solids and at usual BF times. Aother has told me to keep up the inbetween BFs but don't BF after solids. Another has told me to offer BF after solids but cut out the inbetween ones. They said she is getting too much milk. She has always refused any kind of bottle/beaker/cup so even though I offer a cup of water every time I give her solids, she is actually not getting any fluid other than my BF and what is in the veg puree. What should I do?????? any advice gratefully accepted (i doubt it could confuse me any more than I already am!)
I am not an expert and deliberately read as little as possible so as not to confuse myself. I think that either of the 3 options offered by the HVs would be OK so I'd do whatever you fancy and suits you both. I used to do solids and water at "meal" times, BF for "snack" times and first thing and last.
I wouldn't worry about the fluids she's getting enough from BF, as for too much milk, that just sounds silly!

kalo12 · 03/06/2009 20:52

ck you are wrong about the iron. iron in bm is much better absorbed than iron in formula and eating food interferes with the absorption on iron from bm, which is why many bfed babies take longer to get on to solids than formula fedbabies.

to op, i know it seems like you are constantly feeding but sounds fine the amount of bm you arre giving.

KingRolo · 03/06/2009 21:10

Traceface - if you are still there - my dd is very similar to yours but at 33 weeks a little older so is probably eating a bit more. Mine's a chubby 25th centile one too .

I think your comment about just going with what your dd demands is defintely the way to go. I have found that my DD's needs are different every day. Sometimes she feeds 7 or 8 times, sometimes she has 4 longer ones. Sometimes she wolfs down her solids, sometimes not. Regarding HVs - every single one I have ever spoken to is different in terms of the advice they give so the conclusion I have come to is just to go with what you feel is right. And no way will she be getting 'too much' milk. She'll be taking what she needs.

The BLW argument is interesting but if you are already confused I'd suggest you don't get too bogged down in it.

HTH.

curiositykilled · 04/06/2009 10:11

humphrey cobbler - there are no facts, only conflicting research some more reliable than others which is my point... If you think there are facts I would say that is dangerous in itself...

tiktok · 04/06/2009 10:14

ck - please give an example of significantly conflicting research about iron.

jellybeans · 04/06/2009 10:15

My 28 wk old has 3 purree meals a day (he will be on purree until outgrows reflux due to choking on what he brings up) and has gone from 8 bfs a day to 6-7. He has teenty bits of formula or water with meals. He does sleep through though luckily.

traceface · 04/06/2009 16:09

hello! Yes I'm still here! I have to admit I've been tempted to run away to the safety of my postnatal thread where everyone is nice to each other . I really appreciate everyone's help and opinions (and facts!) and would hate anyone who had tried to offer me help to have felt 'got at' by anyone because of my thread! I've been basically offering BF to no particular pattern, on the basis that you all seem to agree that she can't get too much milk at this stage. SHe will be 6 months old in a few days so I guess I will be increasing the diddy portions now and perhaps she'll cut down her milk when she's ready!

OP posts:
rollercoaster1 · 08/06/2009 20:15

hiya just a quick one traceface - think you have no need to worry. You have only been weaning 2 weeks and your baby is already on 3 solid meals a day. Ive been at it 2 months and my 8mth old ds is still only eating breakfast and if Im lucky a couple of cubes of dinner in the eve. Im hoping that the breast milk is still doing enough for him and he'll eat more when hes ready - wish I was in your shoes, 3 meals a day is fab! well done u!

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