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Weaning

Find weaning advice from other Mumsnetters on our Weaning forum. Use our child development calendar for more information.

DD 26 weeks soon. Asked HV about BLW and was told it was wrong & dangerous. Help?

51 replies

imoscarsmum · 06/02/2009 16:00

I really like the sound of BLW but my HV said without mincing her words that it was wrong and the risks of choking are way too great (TBH, I think she thought i was hoping to hand DD her food and then bugger off to watch daytime TV, which I am NOT!!).

I like the ideas behind BLW, especially as it'll hand back control to DD who could not/would not bf (don't go there - broke my heart to ff).
However, i know very little about it and was surprised when HV was adamant it was wrong. However, same HV encourages delaying weaning till 26 weeks so she can't be completely bonkers can she?

So, thought I'd turn to the old faithful mumsnet for help. [Why is it that mn clashes with HV s much??!] Anyway, can anyone give me some simple words of advice and guidance - am i bad mummy for thinking about BLW?

OP posts:
welliemum · 06/02/2009 20:56

So all those 3rd and 4th children who wean themselves on cat food table scraps should be forcibly restrained? It is a worry, how the human race has survived this far as eating is so dangerous.

Does your HV know where you can get straitjackets in an XXXS size?

imoscarsmum · 06/02/2009 21:27

Loving all the posts and words of common sense! making me feel much better and a bit more confident about BLW.

Thought occurred though - how do you get them to eat yoghurts? Been trying to come up with food that babies could not eat with their fingers and yoghurt is one that perplexes me.

OP posts:
SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore · 06/02/2009 21:30

As far as the chokling goes dd2 has got to be the greediest child I have laid eyes on. She will stuff half a pizza into her mouth given the choice, but gags and it comes back up. Despite the fact that she tries to fit everything on her plate into her mouth in one go she has never choked.

Yoghurt can easily be eaten fingers. Or toes as dd2 proved earlier And she knows how to use a spoon.

AitchTwoOh · 06/02/2009 21:32

well, i don't really like yoghurts so we don't tend to have them in the house so dd didn't have any until she was old enough to eat them neatly with a spoon so i didn't get the grues.

however, a lot of people just load up a spoon with some thick greek yog and the babies grab the spoon and feed themselves. or eat it off fruit, that sort of thing.

the thing about yoghurt is that it's a weaning food because of the fact that it's portable and has no lumps, their dairy requirements are easily met by milk if they're drinking what they want. and obv those petit filous are hugely marketed towards kids. so the obsession with babies and yoghurts is a bit backwards-foremost imo.

cmotdibbler · 06/02/2009 21:35

DS would plunge his hand in, take it out, and suck it all off. So yog is a perfect finger food imo. He did learn to use a spoon quite quickly - if you use plain greek yog, then they just thrust the spoon in and enough clings to make sucking the spoon worthwhile.

If you aren't precious about mess, everything is finger food

AitchTwoOh · 06/02/2009 21:40

blee!

macaco · 07/02/2009 13:52

I know, what IS it about yoghurts?? Here in Spain all babies are spoon fed jars and yoghurts, like it's some kind of magical elixir. To be honest most of them are full of all kinds of crap. But then again babies here seem to be spoon fed til they're about 2 and I don't get that either.

mololoko · 07/02/2009 14:14

i did a first aid course before we started and it really set my mind at rest re. choking.

i also had to stop bf (v.v. sadly and not without dreadful misery about the whole thing)

we sort of started blw last week at 26 and a bit weeks, but dd actually started two days ago when all of a sudden it just seemed to "click". i was SOOO proud of her picking up a bit of roast butternut squash and shoving it in her mouth

i can tell already it's going to help "heal the wounds" i feel about bf

do what YOU think is right, you don't have to do what your HV tells you to do. I don't bother going to see mine any more. best advice i've ever had from mn.

ps. [sycophantic emoticon] aitch, if you're still there - you are a bit of a hero for me. reading about your experiences with bf at the time i was falling apart with grief that i couldn't do it anymore gave me tremendous comfort. thank you. so when are you writing a book then?? you really should hop on the back of gill rapley's bandwagon.

AitchTwoOh · 08/02/2009 22:24

ooooh, thank you. that means The World to me. thanks.

imoscarsmum · 09/02/2009 11:44

Gosh, thanks for all the words of encouragement and support. I think I might actually be looking forward to weaning now.

It's also good to know I'm not the only woman who tried to bf and couldn't and was devastated by it.

For me anyway, the thing about yoghurts is not the calcium value or the texture but the fact that yoghurts are a change from fruit for a pudding but they aren't choccy biccies - ie a slightly healthier option and a different taste for DD.

OP posts:
Bumperslucious · 09/02/2009 12:05

Yoghurt used to be the only thing I wouldn't let DD eat herself, simply because I couldn't stomach the mess, but she has been feeding it to herself very competantly for about 2 months now (she's 19mo) since I started letting her (when I try and hold the pot she takes is off me and places it on the table and looks at me as if to say 'stop bloody interferring').

I can remember 3 scary 'chokes' 2 on banana and by the time I had unstrapped her from the chair to grab her out she had dislodged it, and the third on - yoghurt! She sort of inhaled it and it bloked her wind pipe, but not for long and she was fine, it hasn't put her off.

Aitch is right, you are right to be worried, watch them like a hawk, but when they gag (which isn't the same as choking - if you can hear them they probably aren't choking) it's good to be nonchalant about it and they get over it pretty quickly.

I loved BLW, it was so the right decision for us and I recommend it to everyone. Interesting about the FF issue.

BikeRunSki · 09/02/2009 13:16

imoscarsmum I think I am in almost exactly the same situation as you, so hi! ]

My DS is 23 weeks and we also couldn't bf. Like you, I won't go there right now, but also was devasted to ff.

I am also thinking about weaning, and BLW as a "cure" for ff - although I think the greatest wounds are my mental scars.

DS is increasingly mobile and can spend hours rolling on the floor and enjoys his door bouncer. Anyway, this increased mobility has made him very hungry. He is also now waking up several times a night now, for about the last week, even though he had been sleeping 7pm-7am for several weeks previously. When he does wake up it is always hunger and he devours an 8oz bottle (I have tried not feeding him, only giving him water, a wee bit of playing, a cuddle, all sorts, but it always seems to be hunger that wakes him ).

He chomps on his bottles like they were a steak! And he really watches us eat.

Does anyone think that these are signs that he is ready for food?

I am a little hesitant as there is a history of coeliac disease in DH's family. Not DH himself, but his grandfather, his son and his son.

Any advice?

HV says to wait as close to 26 weeks as possible, with I entirely agree with, but it is getting harder and harder to keep him satisfied with just milk.

AitchTwoOh · 09/02/2009 14:42

could be, but i'd be hesitant about doing anything with coeliac stuff going on in the background (more so that if he got it you wouldn't beat yourself up with what ifs, tbh).

have you tried hungry baby formula? it's the same milk, just slightly less processed so it takes them longer to digest.

BikeRunSki · 09/02/2009 16:47

Aitch your are right, it's the "what ifs". HV very scathing on Hungry Baby milk, and said that baby rice would be better the hungry baby at this stage. I think I will persevere for another few weeeks. No risks of weaning after 26 weeks, lots before.... and oddly enough, since I posted at lunch time, he hasn't seemed that hungry. We'll see how tonight goes!

JollyPirate · 09/02/2009 16:54

As a HV I could weep at some of the crap I see HV's have spouted- I used BLW with my son (now 6) he didn't choke and it was FINE. Stupid blardy woman.

AitchTwoOh · 09/02/2009 17:16

a lot of people seem to think that hungry baby milk has more cals, it doesn't. it's just basically formula from, say, ten years back, so the proteins are a bit less processed. i can see why some people like it and others don't, tbh.

GreenMonkies · 09/02/2009 18:27

Your HV is talking complete and utter Bollocks!!

Show her article, draw her attention to this part;

"Parents may be concerned that their baby will choke.But although anyone, in theory, can choke on anything, nature gives babies a natural prevention against choking by teaching it to chew before it can swallow. The risk factors are if a baby is not sat up straight, and if suction is introduced, such as the action involved in sucking off a spoon.

Rapley explains: "Imagine eating tomato soup - you suck it in. Now imagine eating minestrone, a mixture of liquid and solids. The way you eat it is different, you can't suck it in, you chew it." It's because of this that purée-fed babies often refuse second-stage baby foods, which involve lumps and purée. They don't know whether to suck or chew so, as a natural defence mechanism, they do neither......

.....Introducing solids is a complex physiological state the baby has to arrive at; he has to be immunologically ready, he has to be able to produce the enzymes to digest the food and he has to have lost the tongue-thrust reflex and be able to chew and swallow food.

Tongue thrust is a protective mechanism that all babies have - but it can be overridden by spoon-feeding. Their tongues will push out anything they can't handle. As a baby gets older, its tongue-thrust reflex is triggered further back in the mouth until it eventually disappears."

And this one too,especially this part;

"Won't he choke?
Many parents worry about babies choking. However, there is good reason to believe that babies are at less risk of choking if they are in control of what goes into their mouth than if they are spoon fed. This is because babies are not capable of intentionally moving food to the back of their throats until after they have developed the ability to chew. And they do not develop the ability to chew until after they have developed the ability to reach out and grab things. The ability to pick up very small things develops later still. Thus, a very young baby cannot easily put himself at risk because he cannot get small pieces of food into his mouth. Spoon feeding, by contrast, encourages the baby to suck the food straight to the back of his mouth, potentially making choking more likely.

It appears that a baby's general development keeps pace with the development of his ability to manage food in his mouth, and to digest it. A baby who is struggling to get food into his mouth is probably not quite ready to eat it. It is important to resist the temptation to 'help' the baby in these circumstances since his own developmental abilities are what ensure that the transition to solid foods takes place at the right pace for him, while keeping the risk of choking to a minimum.

Tipping a baby backwards or lying him down to feed him solid foods is dangerous. A baby who is handling food should always be supported in an upright position. This ensures that food that he is not yet able to swallow, or does not wish to swallow, will fall forward out of his mouth."

LackaDAISYcal · 09/02/2009 18:42

I won't comment on the BLW as the experts are here in abundance, but wanted to repsond to Bikerunski on the gluten thing. I have coeliac disease and was advised by my gastro-enterologist to hold off introducing gluten containing foods until my DD was nine months. Until then she had some of my GF pasta or toast rather than normal pasta and toast.

MiniMarmite · 09/02/2009 21:04

I don't have anything against BLW but I just wanted to respond to Tommy's comment re blenders...in prehistoric terms people would have masticated food in their mouths and passed it back to their babies so purees would have been available ...but who knows, they probably used finger foods too...

Imoscarsmum as Lulumama says, a mixture of finger foods and purees are recommended by NHS so not sure how your HV can object on safety grounds.

You need to do what is best for you and your baby but please don't beat yourself up about not being able to bf or decide to do BLW because of that. Bf worked out for me in the end but it so easily could not have done.

Regarding your comments about control, I've chosen to wean DS starting with purees and moving onto finger foods and I've found that he is very much in control - it is very clear when he's keen to try something or not.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

AitchTwoOh · 09/02/2009 21:22

in prehistoric terms they'd likely have masticated tough meats, but there'd be no reason for them to do so (as there is no reason now) if the child were perfectly capable of self-feeding successfully, surely? it just doesn't make sense, and i doubt prehistoric woman wanted for pointless work to do around the cave.

plus, until recently children were weaned later so nutritionally (then as now if you're following the WHO guidance) supplementary foods were just that for a longer time. i used to have a link to a bbc report about an ancient dig where they'd dug up bones and could see that nutritionally the kids were much worse off when weaned off the breast, less bone density etc.

i used to give bits of meat a bit of a rough-up with my teeth, sometimes, before handing it over, but i still handed it over. [cavewoman]

lizziemun · 09/02/2009 22:07

Funny dd1 was puree weaned, and had and still does have a strong gag reflex. She couldn't cope with lump until well over a year.

DD2 was BLW from 6mths and have never gagged on her food. She eats anything and everything and dd1 if very fussy.

MiniMarmite · 09/02/2009 22:27

AitchTwoOh at your cavewoman impersonation, fab!

A bit of a digression but this is interesting if anyone is interested in reading about pre-mastication: ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/7810/1/Zhang%2c%20Yuanyuan.pdf...

TinkerBellesMumandFiFi2 · 10/02/2009 02:16

If you read through Aitch's blog you will find stories of a PCT who has someone employed to support BLW, other countries who follow BLW... In my area there are two ladies who are breastfeeding supporters (a HV and a MW) who are big BLW fans and tell everyone they help about it, plus they train other HCPs in BFing and tell them about BLW so msot of the HCPs in the area now about it and are supportive.

I agree with Aitch and her link, when you have had a bad start (I had a 31 weeker, I'd been messed with through pregnancy and then spent a lot of time going through the hospital, having problems breastfeeding etc, my story is on that link) that BLW can be really empowering, I found it helped recapture something that was lost in the start we had.

I skipped yoghurt till she could do it herself because of what the guidelines say about spoons and because of what GR says about them being able to pick things up for themselves when they're ready to cope with it. TBH will a child miss yoghurt if they wait till they can do it themselves?

Aitch, you've seen what I've had to say about prem babies and BLW. I think it's a perfect combination because however the baby is developing (and prem babies vary more than term babies) BLW will follow that. You'll do great

foxytocin · 10/02/2009 04:27

mn clash w so many hvs because many of them are ignorant and spout utter rubbish they picked up from other ignorami refuse to keep their knowledge current.

SnowlightMcKenzie · 14/02/2009 21:12

Ah now foxy, you're not going to get a thread on MN saying (even if true)

'Support thread: For those who have excellent HVs'

Although, perhaps they are a minority group that may feel left out of certain sections of MN!