BLW and baby under 6 months

[PetitFilou1]

Ds2 (3 of 3) is 20 weeks and desperate for food. He has no tongue thrust reflex and can grab food and put it in his mouth (and has - several times) He can't sit up unsupported but neither could my other two children until much older (with dd it was 8 months). Will it really do much harm to start now?

and please...no one get the popcorn out .... he really does seem hungry.

All literature I got in 2003 advised 16w (4 months) in 2006 was 6 months recommended by the WHO.

That's great nimchimpsky, exactly what I was saying. Yet still, despite all babies being individuals there is immense pressure to NOT wean before 26 weeks (from hps, not from yourself I hasten to add!!)

In 2003 the Department of Health issued guidelines (based on recommendations by the World Health Organisation and UNICEF) that weaning should start at 6 months. I don't know the exact date but it was 2003.

Nimchimpsky I have to disagree as 5yrs ago with DD1 I was advised to wean at 16wks an also with DD2 who will be 3 in May

DD3 who is now 24wks has been a mix of BLW and some purees mixed with EBM since she was 22wks - my HV told me she would be delighted if I got to 18wks before weaning DD3 - I waited until I thought she was ready as per a GUIDELINE

whether or not people have fed their DC who have remained unharmed by LUCK or what have you the OP came on here for support and advice

she feels her DS is ready and its very easy to flame rather than advise/guide and support which is what I believed MN was all about

mothers know their children best and as such should take onboard the most recent advice and do what they feel they necessary

The DOH weaning guidelines leaflet says "around 6 months".

am quite sure that information failed to filter through to all the HVs in the UK then as I was certainly advised to feed mine at 16-18wks when they were born 5 and 3 yrs ago

I'm not saying it was right but they seem to change their mind with every new study done

My point is, mine were born 2003 and 2005, all leaflets etc i was given said 4 months. The op has already said she has other children, bearing in mind our comments about previous dc's, why should she 'know that really' as per seeker's first post?

It is completely reasonable to be questioning how applicable guidelines are if you have been given different advice in the past.

Hey petitfilou I've just re-read my first post there and it was meant to be supportive of you! You obv do know your baby very well, and it kind of sounds like your decision is made? Don't feel bad about it either - it'll never appear on his cv...
"I'm sorry master petitfilou, you didn't get the job because your mother weaned you at 22 weeks..."

ROFL CC well put

What am I still doing on here dizzy at this time of night? It's bloody wine o'clock for goodness sakes. My bf baby will never sleep unless I have my usual gallon of white G'night!

I repeat what I said at 21.05: Whether hvs and other hcps consistently passed on this information is sadly a different matter entirely.

I know the information wasn't passed on, I know the literature wasn't updated in time. I merely commented on the trends that change over decades (because it seems like the 6 months thing is very new, but it actually isn't) and the actual date.

dizzydixies, "mothers know their children best and as such should take onboard the most recent advice and do what they feel they necessary"- I believe this was exactly the point I made. That the guidelines are there for good reasons, not all babies are the same, the developmental signs will be there at different times for different children and blw allows you to respond to this. I think we're agreeing with each other actually!

I made no comment to petitfilou specifically and actually was trying to be supportive in my posts by passing on information. I have neither flamed nor criticised anybody, particularly not the OP.

I an surprised the advice is - if a baby can get it into its mouth its ready for weaning!
DD could get a spoon into her mouth at 16 weeks- it was empty, she just liked to play with it. We didn't wean until 26 weeks to the day.
She also sat up unaided at 21 weeks.

I'm still reading but considering starting a thread on MMR instead

I would also like to see the research on which the WHO guideline is based. My instinct tells me that a guideline that covers developing countries as well as developed ones has to be interpreted according to the individual.

Also, my dh, who is a doctor and very annoyed at me for posting on this subject, points out that gut problems can be caused by infection, diet, are linked to anxiety and personality type etc etc and not necessarily anything to do with early weaning

and there I had better leave it I think

Thanks for those who have offered helpful and balanced advice, either way. I should also say I haven't made up my mind yet as to what to do re my little ds2. I will ponder on it.

The advice isn't if they can get it into their mouth they're ready. It's if they can sit up unaided and have lost the tongue thrust reflex and can transfer food from the front to the back of their mouths and chew and swallow then they may be ready.

NimChimpsky I apologise if you felt that was directed at you - I was only addressing you in the first line of my post but I can see from the way it came up that you might have felt my entire post was addressed to you

no offence meant, was just trying to support the OP through a tough decision having just had to make the same decision myself

To those who insist that babies should be able to sit unsupported before you even think of introducing solid food - my little DD2 didn't sit unsupported til she was 9 months, and she had reduced the amount of milk she was taking at about 4 months. Nothing I did made her take more milk; she was failing to thrive, and a gradual introduction to solids gave her extra energy to suck her milk. If I'd waited til she was able to sit unsupported, she'd probably have faded away entirely.

You are talking out of your arses (but probably in a well-meaning - if narrow-minded - way), and I hope that people who have genuine concerns about their babies' feeding don't take what you say as gospel. I'm glad I didn't come across this peculiarly hardline school of thought when I was tearing my hair out with DD2's feeding and growth.

oh Wispa that must have been difficult, hope DD2 is coming on like a wee trooper now

WHO announced 6m guidelines in 2006. HERE

TwilightSurfer I can link to hundreds of sites that tell you the WHO changed their guidelines in 2003. It's true I'm afraid. The fact that a report summarized the info in 2006 does not change this.

Wispa I'm sorry and that must have been difficult for you. The guidelines are there for the healthy average baby. It is recommended and rightly so that parents of babies who are failing to thrive or suffering other problems (severe reflux for example) should consider weaning before 26 weeks with the support and guidance of HCPs for the good of the child.

SUCH an interesting question, i think, petitfilou. especially for people like me with premature babies to think about.

that's why i'm happy to be doing BLW (or will be when the time comes). im(non-medical)o, we don't make babies sit down if they can walk before a year. so if the baby's doing it, they're doing it. although with the caveat that if you're worried about allergies etc and all that good stuff then it might save YOUR sanity to wait so you don't second-guess yourself.

i remember wellie did find some incidence of extra hospital admissions of something if weaned pre-6 months, but it's pretty marginal as i understand it, between 4 and 6.

but weaning, however it's done, is a pita compared to milk...

byt the way, re mother knows best. in india, one study found that the average weaning age was something amazing like 22 months. mum knowing best is very reliant on the mum's background and culture, tbh.

Thanks dizzy. She's doing OK - still very tiny for her age, but enjoys food and eats quite a wide variety, albeit in small quantities. She had bad reflux, but finally seems to be getting over that at 17 months old. The dietitian reckons that we've done a good job to keep her interested in food despite everything she's been through.

"Weaning guidelines changed from 4-6 months to 'around 6 months' in 2003.

Previous to this The COMA report ?Weaning and the Weaning Diet? (1994) recommended that:
?Breastfeeding is the best form of nutrition for infants. Mothers should be encouraged
and supported in breastfeeding for at least four months and may choose to continue to
breastfeed as the weaning diet becomes increasingly varied. The majority of infants
should not be given solid foods before the age of four months, and a mixed diet should
be offered by the age of six months" Which was the basis of the 4-6 months guidelines.

Concluding that weaning too early or too late
can result in behavioural and health problems and in family stress, COMA stated that:
?Weaning should not start before neuromuscular coordination has developed sufficiently
to allow the infant to eat solids, nor before the gut and kidney have matured to cope with
a more diverse diet.? Introduction of solid foods

The World Health Organisation revised its guidance in 2001, to recommend exclusive breastfeeding for the first six months of an infants? life. At the World Health Assembly, the UK represented by the Chief Medical Officer supported this resolution.

In 2001, the UK?s Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition (SACN) stated that there was
sufficient evidence that exclusive breastfeeding for six months is nutritionally adequate.

Following WHO?s revised guidance, Hazel Blears (then Minister for Public Health) announced the Department of Health?s recommendation on breastfeeding in May 2003.
(as reproduced from department of health infant feeding recommendation may 1st 2003) This is also supported by The Royal College
of Midwives and the Community Practitioners and Health Visitors? Association so any Health Visitors agreeing with or suggesting weaning earlier than 26 weeks is in fact, going against their authority."

To quote but one site.

you have to feel for children for whom ingesting food causes pain... exactly HOW are you supposed to persuade them to hurt themselves for their own good? sounds like you are doing well, wisp.

Of course the DoH guidelines changed to "around six months" in 2003. may, I think. It's a fact, not an opinion. Yes, they were late following the advice from WHO but it was definitely 2003. I was pregnant with my DS1 at the time.

It is thought that the reason the UK was slow to adopt the international recommendation is because of short maternity leave. This has obviously now changed.

The trouble with "I know when my baby is ready for solids" is that people are basing their "knowledge" on received wisdom - Chewing hands, showing interest in food (e.g. watching adults eat) and waking in the night are not signs of readiness to wean, but in our culture they are widely accepted as such, which, IME, results in Mums weaning early.

And none of us would say that there are no exceptions - there are certainly babies for whom there are advantages to weaning early that outweigh the risks, but I personally would never wean early on the advice of someone like a HV or GP - I'd want to know why I had to wean (and why it was better than my BM).

As for the babies that didn't sit unaided till later - I don't know about that one. Its an interesting question.