5 months today & feeding all night - should I start/wait to wean?

[monkeysmama]

I am a first time mum and am totally confused by all this weaning information!

My dd is 5 months today and apart from some calpol & dentinox has only ever had my breast milk. I intend to keep on breast feeding until at least 8 months, probably a year.

However, everyone we know is suggesting we start weaning dd. My plan was to wait until 6 months but now I am not sure what to do.

The main reason "everyone"'s suggesting we wean her is that she slept through from a few weeks until about 6 weeks ago and now wakes up from 2am - 7am every hour for food. She goes down to bed at 8 and has a long feed just before, I have tried dream feeding her around 1130 when we go to bed but it makes no difference - she'll eat a boob full of milk then wake again and cry until I feed her at 2am. Basically she seems to always be hungry. There is no problem with my milk supply but it is getting a bit draining. I can keep going for another month but wonder why some baby rice mixed with my milk wouldn't be good?

I spoke to my HV yesterday and she seemed shocked we haven't started weaning her already (though this is the same HV that suggested I start at just 4 months) & said "give her some banana and see how well she'll sleep" which I didn't find that helpful.

So - a longish post but I would really, really appreciate some helpful advice. Dp has already started buying plastic spoons!

MM

And I am very grateful to MN for opening y eyes to a load of facts that I had no idea about previously. Maybe that's just me - I like to base my decisions on facts rather than reassurance from people who are relying on anecdotal evidence and what other people tell them to do based on nothing at all

I just dont get this argument at all, I really dont think you would be doing anything terrible to introduce your baby to tastes of food if you feel they are ready for it at 5 months old.

They are just guidelines,even the guidelines are not concrete. They say dont feed your baby before 4 months, best time to introduce soilds is around 6 months, they may be ready earlier, can they sit up, have they lost tounge thrust, pincer grip, speak to HCP for advice.

My dd has stoppped sleeping through the night, I dont know why, maybe its hunger, maybe she can be filled up a bit more in the day im just waiting to see what happens but if she is 2 or 3 weeks off 6 months and I feel she is ready then ill go for it........... If it helps her sleep through the night then all the better for all of us, theres nothing wrong with wanting a nights sleep

VS, straightforward question... not having a go... I am genuinely interested... where's the evidence that food does not make a baby sleep better? I can see if the baby's milk intake decreases then they are actually getting fewer calories, but if the milk intake is the same and the baby is eating fruit, veg and rice, surely that is going to fill them up more, and therefore they will sleep better (in same way as ff babies sleep better than bf ones)

It's coincidence neeny. None of my children have had improved sleep due to starting solids.

Seriously, it may have seemed to make a difference to you but if you post a thread on MN now and ask how many babies it made a difference to and how many it didn't you'll see how much it varies, with some people they will swear it did, and I suppose in all possibility that may be true (though the age most people start weaning often coincides with when baby starts sleeping longer anyway), but many others will say it didn't.

Even if it did make a difference, what is more important? Waiting until you know it is risk free for your child to eat, and knowing that way you haven't inflicted any health issues on them to deal with in the future, or getting extra sleep a couple of weeks earlier?

Also
"(in same way as ff babies sleep better than bf ones) " isn't true either.

Thanks for your reply VS. So it is only your opinion that food does not make a baby sleep better, not a fact? Nothing wrong with that - MN is there for everyone to give their opinion.

Maybe it is linked to whether the baby has ever slept well ie if your baby does not sleep through the night, food will not help, but if your baby usually sleeps through, and then starts waking once or twice needing to feed, that is a stong indication (one of several) that the baby needs more than milk.

To me it is not about getting more sleep, it is about listening to my baby (babies). They were unsettled and cluster feeding when previously they had not. They also can hold the heads up, can pick up food and put it in their mouth and have lost tongue thrust reflex. They are also 23 weeks old. All that to me says 'wean'.

Waiting another three weeks, IMO, would have been cruel. In your opinion, weaning early is cruel. But we must both make the choices we feel are right for our children.

Going back to the OP, I think she should do what her instincts tell her. She knows her baby best.

I don't think weaning at 23 weeks is cruel. I think blw is the best way to go to judge your child but I could find you twenty links in about 5 minutes that say a baby waking in the night that previously slept through is not a sign for weaning.

Also, this link may help you.

www.kellymom.com/nutrition/solids/solids-sleep.html It has links to two studies that show there is no link between feeding solids and sleeping through.

it is a shame when posters who do link to guidelines or research are told off for preaching.

like it is better to say,' you know your baby best, do what you think is right' without ever pointing out the evidence towards weaning around 6 months

i thikn when you feel strongly and passionately about a subject, that passion can be mistaken for aggression/vitriol when that is not the case

and at the end of the day, every single proponent of weaning around 6 months is saying so for the welfare of the baby ! it is not just a stick to beat mothers with to make them feel bad or cruel or guilty.

it would be remiss not to mention the guidelines and explain them rather than saying

'don;t wean before 26 weeks or before some physical cues are reached' without setting out some reasons why

explaining abotu gut maturity , enzymes and things like that might make a parent take a step back and think, ok, maybe my mum/sister/gran is wrong about weaning at 16 weeks to get the baby to sleep....

let people make an informed choice, if after reading guidelines and reserach, they still feel their baby needs weaning at 12 /16/ 20 weeks, then that is their choice

pretending that there is no ryhme or reason behind weaning guidelines helps no-one

neenz glad to hear your lovely twins are doing so well

Hello Monkeysmama,

My son, now 11 months, started on a tiny bit of puree twice a day at about 23 weeks. (Although he was 12 days overdue, was on 91st centile, and had been sitting unsupported for a few weeks at his point) He seemed to really enjoy the food and was very enthusiastic about feeding himself - sucking puree off his fingers etc. It didn't make any difference to his sleeping as it was such tiny quantities and he was still feeding every 3 hours at this point.

Being on pretty significant quantities of solids hasn't helped either. He probably sleeps through about 50% of the time and this seems to be far more correlated to spurts of development than to food intake. Most recently, when he started taking a couple of independent steps he woke up twice in the night for milk every night for almost 2 weeks, but now he is pretty stable on his feet and has sleept 7 - 6 for the last week.

I guess this is more teeth related than food related!

Monkeysmama - my DS is 5 months today and I have started to wean him - TODAY!!! It just seemed right. he exhibited all the signs of being ready and after his baby rice today he looked so delighted - bless him. I honestly think that the 6 months mark is quite unrealistic for most babies - until not so long ago babies were being weaned at 4 months anyway. Still there is so much pressure to exclusively BF for 6 months that I too feel very guilty about it. Any reassurance out there please?
My reasoning is that I am not stopping Bf, I want to carry on util he is 9 or 12 months so hopefully starting weaning 4 weeks early won't do him too much harm??

exclusive breastfeeding for 5 months is great!

if your baby was showing the physical signs of readiness for foods, then it is most unlikely you have done any harm, if you are not happy about waening or he seems to go off solids, then stop for a while

i actually disagree with 6 months being unrealistic for most babies, i think that as a society, we are unrealistic about our expectations of small babies

simperingbint - thanks for your reply. I have posted my message on without reading the whole thread which I have now done. Bloody hell! I didn't realize how opinionated people are about this!! I must ask - if weaning at 6 months is so important how did entire generations survive so well on being weaned at 3 or 4 months - our mums' generation certainly didn't wait for 6 months! I shall see how my DS sleeps tonight and will make my mind up if I'm sticking to solids or not but would like to point out that outside MN most women DO wean way before 6 months. Out of my NCT group only 1 (out of 8) waited for 6 months. Perhaps I don't have all the facts but what exactly is the likely consequence of weaning before 6 months? Still, I am not entirely decided what to do!!

Waited to wean DD2 despite lots of comments about how "hungry" she was (BFing every 2 hours day and night). Eventually decided to give it a whirl at 22 weeks. Had been able to sit up for a while, grabbing things and putting them in her mouth and drooling and gaping at every mealtime!

She has absolutely devoured her purees and we have hilarious video of her second "meal" where she is frantically grabbing the spoon and pulling it to her mouth. She doesn't spill an ounce (total contrast to DD1 who spat out everything for weeks).

She is much more settled generally and is sleeping through, despite teeth popping through.

Just to echo that all babies develop differently and, FWIW i'm very sure I did the right thing!

(Not advising anyone, just giving the benefit of my experience which I think is the beauty of Mumsnet. Afterall, we can all look up the guidelines on t'internet, if we don't know them already!)

the consequences can be allergies, excema, stomach complaints and some of those effects won;t be seen for years and years and years

early weaning is a fairly modern concept, weaning was more usual 8 - 9 months, until the 50s or so... maybe a little later

remember, older generations did a lot of things WRT to weaning that we know now are wrong:

solids at birth /2 weeks post birht, rice/ rusk/ biscuits in the bottle, evaporated milk or cows milk from birth or early on, etc etc etc

babies don;t actually need food, and many don;t really get into eating until towards their first birthday, letting them set the pace, and grab and eat food when they are ready, is IMO a better way to go
BTW i am lulumama, just got a name change, i have posted on this thread already !

in RL a lot of people IME wean earlier than 6 months due to bad advice from HVs or GPs or well meaning friends and relatives

and due to not knowing the true signs of readiness and presuming that night waking is a sign of readiness and can be cured by adding solids to the diet

i do know several people who have waited until 6 months or close to it, i weaned dd at 25 + 2 days..

I am really not sure about this. The country I come from there is almost 0% allergy and yet my generation was weaned at 3 months. My husband is severely allergic to many things and was exclusively BF for 6 months. It's hard to make sense of it all!

There is really no good evidence linking formala feeding to an increase in allergy - or a protective effect of breastfeeding, sadly.

DD1 was "weaned" shortly after 4 months on advise of paediatrician - and food has been a battle ground ever since. She didn´t want or need it and I perservered (foolishly I now realise) because that´s what the "experts" advised.

DD2 was weaned at 6 months and accepted food, even lumpy food very very quickly. I had the impression taht being able to introduce lots of different food quickly really helped, which you can´t do if you wean early.

DD2 has also always slept badly and extra milk did not seem to be the reason for waking but TEETHING. My guess is your baby wants to feed for the associated comfort, not because she´s hungry (do you check she is actively drinking not sucking?)

Do what you think best as you know your baby best but if in doubt hold off on weaning early.

Weaning before six months IS linked to allergies, excema etc - but do simple foods such as fruit and veg cause this allergic reaction or is it only if you introduce wheat, gluten etc?

Being the expert that I am after feeding my twins solids for six days it seems to me that it takes a while for them to get used to eating, swallowing etc. So I'm thinking fruit and veg now and then at six months when they really need more protein etc they are more than ready to eat the volume they need.

Shoot me if I am wrong

hello monkeysmama
i was told and actually fully agree, that it is to do with your babys weight, my dd1 who is 19 was weaned at 4 months, which was late at that time. the norm was 3 months!!
i remember her gagging when i fed her a small amount of baby rice, so i waited a few more weeks till imo she was ready.

with dd2 the guideines were 4-6 months, i started at nearly 6 months, and we were both happy with it.

however my ds was a big baby, and i was constantly feeding him, it was constant bottles, and yet he still cried. 1 health visitor told me to wait, yet her colleague advised me to start with weaning, and his weight was typical of a 6 month old baby.
he was clearly ready for something more. i agreed with her, and he became so much more settled.
at the end of the day, its your baby, and your instincts that i think you should follow.
enjoy your baby
xx

I think you have to remember, as others have said on here, that babies are not machines and they don't all wake up on the day they hit 6 months old suddenly ready for solids. A couple of weeks either way is unlikely to make a huge amount of difference IMO.

FWIW, my ds started waking up all the time at around 5 months wanting bf, but when I introduced solids at 5.5 months it made no difference to his sleeping. It did, however, make him a much happier baby during the day, and he smiled more and generally seemed much more contented. I don't think that me insisting he waited another 2 weeks til the magic date would have been in his best interests.

some fruits and veg can give a reaction.. citrus, or things like strawberry and raspberry or kiwi , tomato.. things with lots of seeds...

gluten is best introduced after 6 months

I'm quite at how emotional people get about this. I started dd on baby rice/pureed veg at 4.5 months (within the guidelines at the time). She was always a good sleeper and had been sleeping through for some time by then. I started probably for purely selfish reasons - I was going back to work when she was 5 months old and wanted to do this myself in an unhurried/unpressured environment. It worked fine for us. I didn't BF either - tried but just would not work.

It seems there is so much pressure to be perfect and lots of guilt laid at the door of those who aren't. It's almost like there is TOO much information and the guidelines change every 5 mins. It's amazing how we all survived to adulthood!