I am getting irritated by all the conflicting advice I am getting re weaning.

[pudding25]

My LO is 18wks old. She is 13lbs 3 oz. On 25th percentile for weight and on 91st percentile for height (although she doesnlt look tall and thin, just normal!). She does not eat that much, although her feeding has got better recently.

I have read the info that the DOH has put out. My plan was to hold off until as near to 6 mths as I can.

So today, I go to get LO weighed and measured. Every week, LO puts on 4oz. She is healthy, happy, very alert. The HV tells me that I should start to wean her as she could do with putting on 1-2 oz more per wk. She said that she had been at a lecture where they were told that all the stuff about the gut was rubbish and that late weaning was aimed at 3rd world countries.

She told me that I should start with some baby rice and give it BEFORE a milk feed.

I am not going to wean her yet as I think that the HV is talking nonsense. Even if what the DOH says is rubbish, surely you would not wean a baby at 4mths unless they were hungry? She is never that hungry. She does not cry for more food or eat tons.

Also, if the HV is worried about her weight gain, milk has much more calories than food anyway so I don't see how a spoon of baby rice will make her put on weight. Also, if I give her the food before her milk, surely it will put her off her milk???

I just had to vent as I am annoyed.

LO is BF and bottle fed. When she has her bottle, she never takes more than 140ml and that is on a good day.

I am right to ignore the HV's advice?

Actually, she got that one right - they can have cows milk in cooking and on cereal from 6 months, but not as their main drink until 1 year

Well, at least she is not totally useless!

..but if you are bf, dont you put breastmilk in food? rather than cows milk?

Your HV should be reported,she's talking complete rubbish.
I've been a HV in the same area for a long time (10 yrs+)and have seen nothing but benefits from waiting till 6 months to start weaning.
The previous DOH guidelines were to start giving solids between between 4 - 6 months. The baby food manufacturers interpreted this as "start at 4 months" but it was never that definite. I always used to recommend waiting till nearer 6 months because I saw the benefits (less fussy toddlers, less digestive problems etc) so was delighted when the Guidelines became more clear-cut. I'm very pro baby led weaning but try not to be too fanatical about it.
Re increased speech problems. yes, there has been an increase, mostly in deprived areas (where babies tend to be weaned earlier BTW)The most likely cause is reduction in health visitors, so less home visit. Routine development checks have been stopped in many areas. Speech problems no longer get picked up and dealt with at an early stage so there are more children starting school with problems.

Divvy - you can put breastmilk in if you want to, but it is not necessary (or even especially easy to do so, if you don't find it easy to express and many women do not). Cows milk in food is fine from 6 mths - it's as a main drink that it's thought to be best avoided until a year.

got ya thanlks

as others have said, ignore your HV.

Babies guts are mature enough for solid food somewhere between 17-26 weeks, as no one knows exactly when an individual baby's gut will mature, the weaning guidelines state 6 months as you can be fairly certain of gut maturity.

I get so with the awful advice given by some health professional as it makes us all look like idiots.

Babies sometimes loose weight when they start weaning, stick with mn for advice, much more sensible than stupid HV's

re my last post,

disclaimer - not all HV's are stupid, very good friend is a very very sensible HV who I go to for advice as don't trust my own HV.

I am definitely going to keep going as long as possible. She is definitely hungrier than she was a few weeks ago but still much less hungry than a lot of babies her age I read about. I will just feed her more and give her more milk when she has a bottle.

BenandGerry, you say the following

'Re increased speech problems. yes, there has been an increase, mostly in deprived areas (where babies tend to be weaned earlier BTW)The most likely cause is reduction in health visitors, so less home visit. Routine development checks have been stopped in many areas. Speech problems no longer get picked up and dealt with at an early stage so there are more children starting school with problems.'

Even if this were the case (and I would like to hear more than anecdotal evidence) the scenario you describe is not one of increased speech problems. It is rather that the incidence of speech problems is not picked up at a certain time and thus intervention is not happening as early as it could.

moondog - seems to be an actual increase in speech problems, made worse by poor service provision(apologies for thread drift as nothing to do with weaning)see here The full report is 200 pages, you can find it by googling on "Bercow report".

Yes, I know the bercow report. I'm a salt. I also contributed to it. At risk of sounding pedantic, it's not a proper peace of research thoguh. It's largely anecdotal, and by definition prob. only those who are wound up by current state of affairs will post.

Afgree that support is lamentable though. Have huge caseload to which i cannot even begin to do justice.

OK, just seen my HV this morning to get 4 month old dd weighed. She has dropped a little on the centile, nothing to worry about, but has taken to waking much more (which can't relate to a growth spurt as she hasn't gained that much weight). Asked about weaning and was told any time from 17 weeks and also mentioned that now there is evidence that delayed weaning could also affect speech as babies need to use their muscles in their mouth before 6 months.
I have to say, my instinct is to start very gentle weaning, baby rice for a week, one cube of apple added for a week, one cube of carrot for a week, etc. I believe she's ready and don't think I'd be very good at the much quicker type of weaning you have to do at 6 months.

There is no evidence that weaning at 6 months delays speech. NONE AT ALL. I have just been through the published papers looking for anything, and there is not one. Babies use the muscles in their mouths for breast and bottle feeding, babbling etc.

The Department of Health for the UK, International World Health Organisation and many, many others say that 17 weeks is the bare minimum for weaning as definate harm occurs before then, and that 26 weeks is the optimum for maximum short and long term health.

So, its up to you, but unless this HV has an amazing research paper in preprint that I can't access (and world changing ones like that get out) shes talking bollocks.

Janus, I don't know how public spirited you are, but this HV must be stopped!

It is ridiculous that she is in a position where she can misinform and possibly scare new mothers, as well as undermining infant health.

You might want to make a complaint about her.

And Janus - you don't believe her, do you?

Tiktok- there seems to be a post a day saying 'my HV says that they've gone back to 4months, speech problems blah de blah'. Any idea where this tripe is coming from ?

I am considering writing to the Department of Health to ask them why an obviously significant proportion of HVs have decided of their own volition, not just to ignore the DoH guidelines, but to revise them.

You don't have to wean quickly at 6 months. Why would you?

No idea, cmot....if you are a healthcare prof, maybe you could write with your hat on!

I am a healthcare prof, but a technical one, so not 'qualified' through those routes iyswim.

I have emailed BabyMilk Action to see if they have any ideas on action routes

People who are given rubbish weaning advice should complain to their primary care trust otherwise managers will continue to believe their cost cutting strategies (no in-service training/updating, replacing HVs with lesser qualified staff etc)are working. Its possible people think they are speaking to a HV in a clinic when they're not. I'm not making excuses, I know some HVs are giving very out of date advice.

It didn't really make sense to me because, as someone mentioned, my dd is already babbling pretty well so how would eating make her babble even more?
Right, I'm going to stop for a few weeks BUT, I have to say, my instinct is telling me that she's hungry/ready to eat and it's a shame you can't rely on your instinct anymore. She has been an extremely content baby, happily sitting and watching the world go on around her (manic house of 3 children, various animals etc!) but now she seems miserable for big chunks of the day, she doesn't sleep for more than 45 minutes in the day and is disturbed at night. I don't think she's teething so I can only assume she's hungry and I feel bad that I'm making her suffer when there's so much conflicting advice. I don't think I could wait much longer than 5 months though but maybe that's better than 4 months??

Janus - if your baby is hungry then milk is the best thing for her, it has the most calories and is the easiest for her to digest. If you think she's ready to eat then give her the opportunity for her to feed herself - especially if she is sitting up unaided. If she can pick up a piece of toast, put it in her mouth, chew and swallow, then she is ready - if she can't then I wouldn't feed her.

Also don't believe anything about solids and sleeping, it is all a complete myth, so many people on MN will agree with me that solids make no difference to sleeping. My 8 month old is sleeping just the same (i.e. waking a few times a night) as he did at 4 months.

Weaning doesn't solve any problems, so there's no need to start sooner than 6 months. It's hard work and messy so enjoy it while your DD is just on milk!

Janus Is your HV the same as mine?
It was definitely a HV who gave me the advice and I have a feeling that she is the senior one in our area

janus Are you sure it is not teething?

Do you BF or bottle feed? I imagine it is easier to see if she is really hungry if you bottle feed as you can just increase the bottles? Or try bf lots during the day and see if it makes a difference.

How much does your baby weigh out of interest?

Pudding, the strange this is it was a really quiet day in the clinic today and I was the only one there so there was at least one other HV who heard the other one say this to me so surely she would have spoken up if she didn't agree?
I'm breastfeeding so it is heard to tell how much she is getting and so I'm going with the flow, if she needs a feed, she gets one although I have stopped myself giving her boobie every time she cries!! I have always found it hard to tell if a baby is crying because bored or wants a feed and used to always feed but now I'm doing that less as sometimes it is an hour after a feed and she can't be hungry. Can you believe I'm going through this and she is my third??!
She weighs 14lb 13oz and 17 weeks, 75th centile which is massive for me!
I think I'm finding the waking hard as I have 2 other children to look after, up by 6.45am to do the school run, partner works away for big chunk of the week which means I have to do all the mundane house work, do all the homework/reading/cook meals, walk dog, etc, etc. I feel pretty knackered and maybe I'm looking for the miracle cure to waking so I can get some sleep and be a bit more rested and not so shouty in the morning! I love them all though and know this is just a stage to get through so suppose I better get to bed and get some precious sleep!