So bloody fed up... I can't feed this child, and just got another 'talking to' from the HV...

[designerbaby]

I know, me again...

Having had a few good days recently, the last week has been bloody awful. She won't drink her milk, refuses all solids - it's a total battle ground. I don't want to fight her, but unless I persist she has practically nothing. DH suggested I not fight her today and she's had 4oz of formula (over 3 attemptd feeds) and refused everything else.

Just went to the weighing clinic (have to go fortnightly 'cause she's dropping down so much) to find she's put on nothing again in the last 2 weeks. The fortnight before she'd been doing generally quite well and had put on 300g and I was chuffed to bits.

HV asked me what she'd had today, and I told her and she said "Well you have to feed her more than that!". She went very quiet when I asked her if she had any suggestions about HOW to feed a child who doesn't want to eat.

I've just found out her paed appt. won't be for another 8 weeks. I think I'll have gone out of my tree by then...

Just SO SO SO SO SO fed up. I've tried everything with her, cajoling, coaxing, finger food, licking stuff off my finger, fruity stuff, veggy stuff, casseroles...

She tried to throw her lunch across the kitchen today, and screamed every time I approached her mouth with a spoon or bottle.

I just don't know what to do for the best. I feel like I'm her tormentor these days rather than her mother.

db
xx

db - what a stressful situation

Early weaning is not always an efficient way of getting extra calories into a baby - there is research to show it tends to replace milk, which is obv not good as milk has more calories volume for volume. The other risk is behavioral - the baby resists the solids and then resists the milk in protest (less research on this but lots of observation).

I think a helpful and sympathetic dietitian might help - not someone who will judge and belittle or make useless suggestions.

You can ask the dietitian about taking the pressure off for a couple of days, and then starting again - your baby won't waste away over a couple of days, and this viciouscircle needs to be broken.

DB

I just wanted to come on here and say that I had the exact same problem with my ds1 last year and at the same age.

He had quite severe reflux so just vomited everything up.
I stopped getting him weighed, stopped forcing the food and just continued with milk.

He was 11 months before he actaully started eating and now he is a ganit

He eventually started grabbing food from my plate and then I moved onto giving him his own plate.
He never had purees and would never let us feed him, never. So mealtimes were a mess but it really didnt matter.

We were prescribed Enfamil formula which is thicker than normal formula.
It could be worth asking about that?

db - just wanted to say we fed DD2 only at night for a few months - it took the pressure off during the day so that I wasn't panic stricken about getting stuff into her and we were then slowly able to introduce daytime feeding/ purees - she was happier because she wasn't starving - as daytime feeding became less stressful for us both she gradually worked out how to manage etc. DD2 has always had feeding problems (she was tube fed for a few weeks as she was born with no suck/ swallow) and ticks all the dysphagia boxes. She would scream and gag and choke every time I tried to feed her during the day... (DD2 does have a disability, but some stuff might ring bells)
Could you reintroduce a couple of night feeds to take the pressure off?

DD2 found purees and fluids the most difficult of textures - once we moved onto thicker textures she found it much easier to cope with - they moved slower, and she knew where they were in her mouth, there was no danger of them whizzing down her throat when she wasn't expecting it. How does she manage with things like rusks? DD2 lived on heinz baby oat porridge for about three months as it was the only thing we could make stodgy enough for her to cope with... we also introduced quavers at a very early age on the advice of our feeding therapist - I thought she was start staring bonkers trying to fill my precious baby up with rubbish, but it worked a treat... and I pretty much didn't care as long as she ate something!

these days DD2 eats most things - your lo is still very tiny, but if feeding remains an issue and you think there may be physical issues, when you have your next paed appointment ask for a referral to a feeding speech and language therapist - ours quite literally kept me sane...

When babies are "ready" to be weaned they start to show interest in what you are eating.Do you eat with her? Sometimes sitting her down with nothing,and see what she does when you sit down with something to eat.Make sure that it could be something she could have a few mouthfuls of if she is interested.I'm sure in a few months things will change again,all the "Poor feeders" in our group are still little,but eat enough to maintain their weight.All their appetites are different,as ours are,and we are all different shapes and sizes,we accept it in us,but somehow its not acceptable for children.The Baby Whisperer once showed a parent how much is enough for a toddler to eat,and its about 2-3 Tablespoons for a meal.So at 6 months even a tablespoon is quite a bit IMO,so a couple of teaspoons here and there is a start,especially if she is drinking some milk too.My DD1's Baby Group are all nearly four,and some of them are still really tiny,but its not seen as a problem now.

We went down the gaviscon route too btw, but thickening everything with more baby rice was more successful...

Hi DB i've posted on one of your threads before. Just wanted to say, as I said before that your lo sounds almost exactly like ds in lots of ways. The only difference is I don't 'dream feed' him, never tried that.
He has been gainin weight SLOWLY since 8 weeks, at 7 months he is just under 14lb! He is steadily following the bottom line on the chart and we are waiting for a referal to the paed. I think he is VERY GRADUALLY getting better but still has bad days/weeks. Most he takes is 5oz, a lot of the time he takes 2/3oz then I have to try him again in 20mins to get him to finish the bottle. Started weaning well but then after a week refused most things, coming back round to the idea now but it's up and down.
Just want to say I fully sympathise, it is the most stressful, worrying thing to want to feed your lo and for them to keep refusing it, he would also go ages without demanding feeds sometimes if I let him. It's really got me and dh down to be honsest and has been the cause of many an argument. We're just wishing the time away till we see the paed, I'm worried he'll jsut say ds is just small though and the battle will continue . Don't get me wrong, it's not always so bad, jsut that when it's bad it's really hard to cope with. Don't get me started on the constant comments from strangers on how tiny he is .
How you feeling about it all at the moment anyway? (((hugs)))

Just wanted to add to my previous post, at 6 months dd wouldn't eat anything and was 9 months before she started having a few mouthfuls. Even then she was 13 months before she started eating in any quantity. Aged 2 she eats fine!

Could you give her a milk feed during her day time naps as well?

DD1 was quite similar to your dd. I dont think you need to panic just yet as your dd is only 6 months. dd1 would only eat one or two spoonfuls at each feed at 6 months. She is fine now at 3 years although she is still petite i think this is how she is designed to be.

My advice fwiw would be to try and relax about it as children pick up on stress and will play on it. We found by just leaving dd to feed herself and eat only what she wanted (within reason)she now eats most things. Our dinner times are now far less stressful as well.

Good luck - and try not to worry.

Hi again DB, I think our babies are actually twins So sorry this is getting you down so much - it is beyond frustrating, isn't it?! My ds is the same in that he won't drink anything much first thing in the morning. He can go 6 or 7 hours during the day without wanting milk, but at night it's a struggle to go 3 hours! I think he is getting almost phobic about it already - put him in his highchair and he starts crying before I've even tried to feed him! The food we have most luck with is breadsticks with the top half rolled in Philadelphia (leaving the bottom half clean for him to hold.

A word about the constipation though - what formula is she on? DD was terribly constipated on SMA but we switched to Aptamil and she was fine ever since.

I definitely second the idea about leaving food lying around when she's a bit older if you're still having problems then - I think it's a Dr Sears idea? The Nibble Tray, or something like that, it's called...

If you have an appt with a paed. can you not just skip the visits to the HV? (you are not forced to go?)

I am not weaning yet, but my approach is to try and chill out about it, they really do pick up on our tensions, I remember with teething and ds1 he seemed to be going on air at times, hope your appt comes through soon and if your HV is making you feel more stressed bin the visits (my reason for getting ds2 weighed only once a month because of the crap my HV likes to suggest at times.. completely obsessed with weight )

Hi all... thanks for all your support. It really helps to know I'm not alone in struggling with this!

Hi Dalrymps - I remember you from when I was having BF crisis I think? Heavens, it seems like one crisis after another with me, DD and feeding of all descriptions, doesn't it? .

Hi too Tink - I think I only gave birth to one baby, but after 51 hours of labour I could have given birth to triplet camels and I would have been none the wiser...

I switched form SMA to Aptamil too - didn't seem to make any difference...

Having said that, she had blueberries last night in her rice and she's been doing runny black poos all this morning - don't know if this is good or bad!?

Went to HV again, and she suggested dropping my dream feed in the hope that she'll be more hungry for breakfast, introducing a solid breakfast and also dropping the 11o'clock bottle and just offering solids then.

Have tried this the past three days and suffice to say it's been a disaster. Although I haven't dropped the dream feed yet (too scared it's the only bottle I give her which she takes without a struggle).

Breakfast bottle is still v small, and I can just about get a couple of spoons of porridge into her and hour or so later. Having tried to drop the 11 am bottle DD has now stopped eating anything solid at all at this time. I ended up giving her a bottle instead because I couldn't bear to imagine her hungry. She took this with some gusto as it was about 12o'clock by then... but obviously this has a knock on effect on the rest of the day...

She's still happily taking her rice and fruit in the evening thank goodness.

I don't know what to do now... it seems to be worse than if she had some milk first - although the idea was that she'd be hungrier and take more - instead the reverse seems to have happened!

I'm thinking about going back to offering the milk at 11am again, and then leaving it a bit longer on the solids say 12-12.30? Trouble is, that by then she's getting too tired to bother, so that probably won't work.

Also thinking about going right back to square one with what I'm offering and giving single fruit and veg purées again... talk about one step forward and seven or eight steps back...

I just DON'T KNOW anymore...
Aaaaaarrrgghh etc. etc.

db
xx

at 6 months my ds still had 5 milk feeds along with some solids - he had 3 tiny meals at the times we had meals e.g.

7am - milk
8am - breakfast
11am - milk
12pm- lunch
3pm - milk
5pm - dinner
7.15pm - milk
in the night till 8 months - milk

from 6 months I did start to limit the amount offered in the night bottle by an ounce at a time every few days. Could you try doing that with the dreamfeed rather than dropping it altogether? Dropping it gradually makes it less likely for your lo to wake in the night hungry and gives her a better chance of making up the shortfall during the day.

Thanks Seona - that seems to make sense - am SO reluctant to drop milk as HV suggested... DD has weight gain issues and I can't see how having LESS milk will help...

I'll give it a try - my instinct is to just keep offering solids when I have been and then [try] not to sweat it too much if she refuses... HV and my mum seem to think that 3 solid meals a day and cutting milk is a better plan.

You're right about dream feed, I should probably do it gradually...

I also asked the HV if it was a good idea to dilute this feed a bit more - eg. a 5 oz bottle with only 3-4oz worth of milk powder in it - thought this might help her constipation by getting more fluids in, ahilst also making her more hungry at breakfast... She said it wasn't advised, but wouldn't/couldn't say why...

Any thoughts?

db
xx

gosh poor you. lots of good advice here. mainly about avoiding the HV!

6 months old babies need milk, a little solids as well is ok, but in no way what so ever should you be dropping milk feeds to get her to take solids. think of if you're on a diet, you're trying to lose weight so you eat more fruit and veg, and eat less fatty things like dairy. you see, to fatten her up she needs fatty milk, not veg.

hope things get better for you soon.

Well that's what I thought, ruddynorah... but when professionals start saying something different you start to question your own judgement. When I told her what I was offering and when (which TBH is a little like what Seoa is doing, only I split the evening feed so she has a bit before her solids and the rest after her bath) her eyebrows went up so high they nearly disappeared into her hair... and she said, "well you're offering milk MUCH too often..."

I also think that if I'm offering milk and solids regularly, then she's more chance of taking what she wants/needs when she wants/needs it rather than trying to force the issue one way or another. She doesn't take THAT much milk in a sitting in any case...

[baffled emoticon]

db
xx

This is our problem db, it's a very fine balance with ds's milk and food, has to have certain gaps between the milk and food but too long and he's too tired to bother, to short and he's not interested. Some people give 3 7oz feeds a day but we have to give 5 feeds to make sure he takes 18-20oz a day as he battles with certain feeds, 2nd one of the day us usually the worst. I don't think it's a good idea to swap milk for food feeds if you have weight gain issues, like ds does. We always make sure he gets at least 18oz a day as well as his 3 'meals', I would rather he take more milk and less food if anything as the milk has more calories per volume. Were awaiting our referal to the paed at the moment. At the end of the day though he's our ds and the hv can give all the feeding advice she wants but only we know what he's like to feed and how to get the right amount into him cause we have to look after him, not the hv so just follow your instincts db, you know your lo best

Oh poor you. i absolutely detested weaning. Everyone else seemed to just shovel it down their babies necks and DS just wouldn't contemplate eating any of it.

It took a long long time for him get into eating (about 11 months I think) and I found the whole thing really stressful.

6 months is so young, I would maybe just leave it for a few weeks and start again and completely ignore your health visitor. Milk should be the main source of nutrition at this age.

But strictly speaking, she doesn't need any solids. Babies' diets should be predominantly milk until 12mo anyway. I've read of several people on here whose babies haven't taken to solids until 10/11mo or later.

I would be tempted to cut back the solids completely and aim to feed her as much milk as possible while she's asleep. So one as soon as she's gone to sleep, maybe another about midnight, then one a little bit before she wakes up and even one or two in the day while she's asleep.

If you'd followed the WHO/Govt guidelines she'd still be on almost 100% milk (that's not a go at you, btw, I know what the pressure to wean early to solve problems is like) so you couldn't do her any harm. Don't feel that she has to have 3 solid meals a day because she's the magic 6mo.

Formula contains way more calories ounce per ounce than any solid foods she could have at this age, so if they want her to gain weight she needs to maximise her calorie intake, not reduce it. I'm not sure what planet your HV comes from, but it appears to be one where they talk out of their bottoms .

At 6m I would suggest you go back to the usual milk feeds and add in one meal a day of baby rice if that is what she will take. Blueberries for example make them poo black.

If she has an intollerancec that is causing the reflux you should look at www.kellymom.com for advice.

In sensitive LO it is advised that you only introduce new foods gradually and in a set order so you can tell what is causing a problem. They are clever little things and know what will upset them.

Fromage Frais did and still does make DD sick. She is 21m now and will eat almost anything if she wants to but not Pettit Filous. One bad experience and that was that!

Think simple. Milk, pureed veg or fruit and baby rice. Nothing else until she is eating that 3x a day and dropping milk herself. Then introduce yoghurt and cheese to replace the calcium.

Guys, thanks so much for all the support and reassurance... BTW DD is almost 7 months now...

Dalrymps - are you sure you only had one baby? Your DS does sound an awful lot like my DD...

Timing seems to be critical, but DH thinks I've gone barking mad when I get worked up when rennung 15 minutes late for a feed - but seriously, it can make ALL the difference...

Since trying to replace the 11 o'clock milk with solids went down like a fart in a spacesuit, I've decided to ditch that idea, give her some milk (but not coax more in than she'll take in one sitting, so between 3 and 4 oz) and then give the solids after another 1/2 an hour or so.

This seems to have worked better today as I managed to get the best part of 1/4 of an avocado and 1/3 of a banana into her (mushed together though a sieve). It took a while, but she didn't refuse and stayed quite calm. Gave her some bits of finger food which distracted her nicely, but they all went on the floor rather than in her mouth. She also gummed a couple of wholemeal toast fingers (that I was having) but found most of it mushed into the high chair when I took her out...

This way I know she's having as much milk as she wants, and she can make up any appetite she has left with some solids. It may not pile on the pounds, but it will probably help me keep my sanity...

I'm encouraged to hear that so many of your LOs took to solids rather later... lets just hope she'll go for it when she's ready.

See, really really TRYING not to stress...
db
xx

My DS has never been a great eater either which was a huge shock to me as his 4 year old sister eates anything and eats loads in a day.
He wasn't interested in solids at all at 6 months and it wasn't until 9-10 months he got interested even then weaning was a slow process.
He has not long turned 2 and even now he still only eats what he needs in a day to get by and no more. Even sweets and things like that won't entice him he eats very little but although small is actually perfectly healthy.
I know it is easier said than done but honestly try not to stress about it. Keep going with the milk like others have said even if it is ounce by ounce, that is far higher in calories than baby purees.

Good luck it will pass and will sort itself out.

I'm a bit late to this but just wanted to add another voice saying my 6mo ds isn't having anywhere near 3 meals a day. I just started weaning him at 6 months and I do feel that enormous health professional pressure to 'move him on quickly' - I don't understand why, tbh, when everyone on here is adamant that they're fine on milk till they're one, why is that HVs make you feel you're a failure if they're not on steak and chips by 7 months? Anyway, just wanted to say my ds only eats bananas, with other things smuggled in, and I keep trying him with other things in the hope that eventually he'll like them, but basically he's milk fed still. I just keep clinging to the mumsnet massive's reassurance that he'll be fine.
I do hope things are getting easier for you, being unable to feed your baby is just horrifically stressful, particularly if there are also weight issues - I totally second Dalrymps on the people commenting on titchy babies thing.
xxx