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Weaning

Find weaning advice from other Mumsnetters on our Weaning forum. Use our child development calendar for more information.

Original poster

Please tell me NO health visitor in the land would advise/recommend this ?

101 replies

FoghornLeghorn · 04/06/2007 11:56

My BIL & his ex have a baby girl together - she is 2 weeks older than my DD2 which makes her 7 months old this week.
She has been weaned from as early as I can remember on baby rice - infact, I think my DD was little over a week old when this started. My DN is now and has been for some while eating foods that I personally wouldn't give to my children at such a young age - each to their own - they believe they know best.......

HOWEVER

........ I am now seriously concerned - BIL was here yesterday and he gave DN a bottle of milk, not formula, full fat cows milk. I asked him about this and he said she was no longer on formula, hasn't been for about 2 weeks, purely on full fat cows milk and food.
She isn't even 7 months old .
I think the look on my face sort of expressed how I felt as BIL asked what was wrong. It is their first child so I tried really hard not to do the whole I've got 2 children, I know best things but tried to explaint he reasons why babies aren't supposed to have full fat milk at that age, let alone have it solely, with no formula. I explained how much salt was in it and that too much salt can kill babies and has done so in the past.
He just brushed it aside - think I annoyed him - saying that his ex has okayed it with HV and she actualy recommended it.

I really don't want to but in but I don't think they realise the implications of this

OP posts:
Twinklemegan · 04/06/2007 22:44

Well I know the guidance is not until one, and my DS is still on formula at 10 months, but I know I was weaned from breast onto cows milk at 7 months and I'm sure most of us were having cows milk at a similar age. I think there are worse things tbh. I have used cows milk in cooking and on cereal since he was six months - I wouldn't dream of ruining the flavour of perfectly good food by adding formula to it.

Aitch · 04/06/2007 22:50

don't you wonder as well as to the quality of the milk we get now compared to thirty years ago? i read a thing about milking cows and it turned me a bit gruey, tbh. the poor beasts live half as long as they used to, they're pumped full of weirdy meds and milked to extinction. bleh.

Twinklemegan · 04/06/2007 22:55

That's a good point actually. But my DS gets organic milk (can't afford it for the rest of us) so I hope that's a bit better. I keep thinking we should get a cow for the garden (and a sheep to keep the grass short, and some chickens...if only...)
Foghorn - I tried asking the question about cows milk and why it's not recommended for under ones and no one could really give me a clear answer. Obviously it's low in iron, but so is breastmilk. Some people actually felt there's not much to choose between that and formula.

minorityrules · 05/06/2007 01:52

16 years ago, it was the norm to go onto full fat cows milk at 6 months. Guidlines changed between 16 and 14 years ago (my next child) as then follow on milks appeared and it was follow on milks from 6 months

I'm slighty cynical that these appeared at the same time and not convinced it isn't a marketing ploy from the milk companies

We were told at the time, it was to reduce allegies to cows milk, not for any other reason. Vit drops were recommended and you could buy them from the HV's

I doubt it will do much harm, though obviously not recommended now.

|I wouldn't get involved

welliemum · 05/06/2007 02:16

The main problem is that we've all been brainwashed into thinking that cow's milk is essential for children. Why on earth would child health depend on the milk of another species - there's no evolutionary basis for this.

It has a lot of protein and calcium and "stuff" in it so it certainly is useful food, but anything with lots of protein has the potential to induce allergic reactions and gut inflammation and that's especially true if a child is glugging down vast quantities of the same protein every day.

Sure, lots of children can tolerate it perfectly well, but some won't, especially children who aren't Caucasian in origin.

Formula milk is much better as it's more processed, but IMO cow's milk is vastly overrated as a healthy food for children.

Othersideofthechannel · 05/06/2007 05:31

Thanks Malaleche.

I'm not sooo worried now as there is nothing in your post I wasn't already aware of. I didn't like it as a child (was glad when Thatcher snatched it and I didn't have to try to get my classmates to drink my carton of milk). DD is a little obsessed with milk but it doesn't interrupt her sleep. She likes to down a mug (or two) every morning and mid afternoon when she wakes up from her nap. When she's over-tired or under the weather she'll sometimes refuse her meal and ask for milk instead but we only give her the tiniest bit so that she eats some food.
I was telling MIL about the mucus producing thing the other day when she as with us and DD had a cold and she wanted to know how that worked but I was unable to answer her.

Otter · 05/06/2007 09:17

minority rules - plus there seem to be more allergies than ever!

tbh i would rather give cows than some hydrogenated 'formula'

tiktok · 05/06/2007 09:30

Full fat cows milk is not dangerous to a baby over 6 months as a main drink, it's just not very suitable. The salt thing is not an issue with babies who are able to take other fluids and who would indicate by discomfort they were thirsty. The iron thing is not really an issue if the baby is on other foods which have iron in them. I don't think the baby is at risk of dying or anaemia.

I don't think this baby sounds well-nourished, and I can't believe the HV sanctioned the bottle feeding with cows milk....but there are probably no grounds for you to interfere.

Pruuni · 05/06/2007 09:35

Interesting about the allergies. I would guess that I was fed formula then cows' milk from early on, never had a drop of breastmilk. This was the norm in our area/socio-economic group in the early 70s. As a child I never knew a single child with allergies.
What made the govt change guidelines from cow's milk at 6m to cows' milk at a year? Research? Who sponsored it?
For large parts of the population of the globe, milk from other animals is an established part of the diet, btw, and we mostly have the dietary capacity to deal with it. It might be icky but it's not a crime against nature to drink cows' milk.

Kewcumber · 05/06/2007 09:45

my very tiny premmie DS was fed fermented yoghurt (cows) from very young - no formula, no breast milk. He did get addiotnal iron and vitamin suppliment and the medical profession here are astonished at how healthy he is given his start.

Of course I wouldn't recommend it as the ideal diet for a baby but you've done your bit - ie explained to your brother that cows milk isn't recommended until 1yr. Anything more IMHO is going OTT and certainly implying their baby could die from being fed cows milk would have annoyed me too.

Otter · 05/06/2007 09:52

yes Kew - a lot of nonsense being spoken on here

Original poster
FoghornLeghorn · 05/06/2007 11:52

Sorry to have only just come back to this - DD's and I were out yesterday afternoon.
I am not going to say anything, it isn't my place.
Thanks for your info tiktok - I didn't realise that there were fewing risks once baby is over 6 months. Another good reason for me to not say anything as I clearly do not know all the facts.

OP posts:
suedonim · 05/06/2007 12:10

Malaleche, I did say none of the babies I knew came to any harm, and I meant as babies. I'm no longer in touch with anyone from that era of my life so indeed it is possible that some have developed conditions as a result of early use of cow's milk.

But I know anecdotal stuff is not reliable and as I also said, I wouldn't do it today nor advise anyone else to do it because science has shown there's a better way to do things. At the same time, I don't think the child in the OP is in any danger of dying, though she won't be getting the best diet.

Btw, I don't think the milk/mucous theory has any scientific basis. I know Aloha linked to an article that refuted the idea but I can't find her posts.

welliemum · 05/06/2007 21:59

In fact Pruni, drinking cow's milk (as opposed to using the protein) is rare outside Europe. In cultures which traditionally keep cattle eg in Southern Africa and South Asia, they let the milk ferment/make it into yoghurt before drinking it, which is why you won't find cream stirred into your tom yum soup or grated cheese on your curry.

The reason IIRC (will need to check this) is lactase which all babies have (so they can digest breastmilk) but then lose, the exception being Caucasians who can (mostly) tolerate milk all their lives.

I'm not against cow's milk at all - in fact, one of my ambitions is to keep a house cow - but at the same time there are concerns about cow's milk for young children, which is why it's not recommended for under ones.

The dairy industry is big and powerful and wants us to believe that milk is a wonder food that no child should be without, but nutritionists are a lot less impressed.

(PMSL at ranting about milk - I have an exam later today and I'm procrastinating again...)

welliemum · 05/06/2007 22:02

(Just reread and it looks as if I'm saying that I'm a nutritionist - I'm not - so take everything I say with a pinch of organic salt )

Tinker · 05/06/2007 23:16

I asked about milk and mucus once, thread here

drosophila · 05/06/2007 23:45

well if it's of any interest I was fed cows milk from day 1 on advice of GP. I was allergic to formula and Mum didn't bfeed. I was given cow's milk and for most of my life unpasteurised (grew up on dairy farm) and no lasting damage. Same for all my siblings I believe.

Advice changes as the years roll by and I am not sure that the medical ever really know for sure what is right.

ProjectIcarus · 05/06/2007 23:55

about the six months cup thingy. My mum has her red baby book from the 70's (hospital issue) and from 6 months there are no milk feeds at all, just drinks with meals/snacks.

must ask her to lend it to me so I can post bits to everyones horror.

sallyheartshapedstrawberry · 05/06/2007 23:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Aitch · 06/06/2007 00:09

oooh, drosophila, my aunt lived next to a farm with a small herd and when we were on holiday we used to go there with a jug every morning. warm, frothy, unpasteurised milk... yum!

welliemum · 06/06/2007 00:16

One day I'm going to have a little Jersey house cow with long eyelashes and we'll have lovely creamy milk.

Only when the children are old enough to get up at 5am to milk her, obviously.

Aitch · 06/06/2007 00:20

i'm seeing you on a lot of threads right now, wellie - you got an exam brewing?

welliemum · 06/06/2007 00:23

Yes, it's quite soon now, in fact [glances at clock]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHH [runs away panicking]

suedonim · 06/06/2007 17:15

A house cow. Either the cow is v small or your houses are v big.

ProjectIcarus, that's probably the same kind of advice I was given in the 70's. I don't recall having a Red Book, just a Bounty book. My other 'bible' was the Good Housekeeping Baby Book which is still in my attic at home. I must read it again, esp the bit about a 9mths pg women being like a ship in full sail, hehehe!

drosophila · 07/06/2007 20:20

Funnily I don't like milk and never really have. I so remember the big jugs warm and frothy left out to cool and then put in the fridge. thing I never understood was why the cream was always a bit yellow and yet when you buy it, it is whitish.

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