A question about 'signs of readiness' for weaning

[fluffyanimal]

Hoping this won't kick off another rumpus but...
would genuinely like to know what people think about this question that has been rumbling around in my mind.

If I understand it correctly, Gill Rapley who did the BLW research reckons that when a baby has the motor skills to self-feed, this is a good sign that internally, i.e. in terms of gut maturity, the baby is read for solid food. (BLW experts: please correct me if I'm wrong, it might just make my whole question irrelevant.)

So what do you do if your less than 6mo baby helps itself to some of your food and happily puts it in mouth, chews and swallows? Do you think, OK, must be ready for weaning, or do you hold back just in case?

Also, if you then accept that this external sign of readiness for solids is valid, is it not possible to accept as valid other developmental stages that are frequently referred to as signs of readiness for solids, e.g. night waking after sleeping through, or should grabbing your food and eating it be the only external sign you should trust?

I'm just interested because the thing about external motor skills matching internal development is frequently mentioned in BLW threads, so just wondered how it tallies with the advice to wait until 6 months because you can't tell if their gut is mature enough.
[friendly peaceful happy debating emoticon]

i trust the blw bit. so yes, a baby aged 4 months might grab a piece of food. but until nearer 26 weeks they won't be able to sit up steadily, pick up the food, hold it firmly, bite a piece off, chew it, and swallow it.

ds stole my food at just under 5 months so i started blw by putting some fingerfoods out for him at dinner and he tore into them.

that said he's top of the centile charts height and weight wise, could sit well, had pincer grip, could manipulate the food well and could chew and swallow

I trust the BLW-type signs too, because they seem to me to be logically related to eating and the ability to cope with food, whereas things like 'looking at you while you're eating' or 'waking at night after sleeping through' might have nothing to do with food at all.

PinkTulips, yours is the kind of example I'm interested in - your ds had all the motor skills but wasn't even 5 months? Wow!

Not that I'm advocating early weaning, but it might be helpful if this sort of thing did get mentioned in thread when people ask when a baby is ready for weaning. It seems like there can be genuine external signs of readiness that might be seen before 6 months.

another truster of the BLW thing here. but i don't know what actual hard evidence there is, as with all other elements of the 'when to wean' thing.
as far as i understand it the period between 4-6 months is a grey area, we know that things change internally but not exactly when, so it's fair to say that some babies will be ready earlier than others.
seems to me if you leave the baby to decide when to eat then you're probably playing things safe, although dd wasn't offered anything until six months. if i have more children i don't think i'll offer before 6 months (never say never )but if food is swiped then i reckon i'll consider that fair game.

fluffy, those things do get mentioned, i know because i have done a number of times, specifically citing PT's baby. but it's normally descended into utter madness by then...

at a very basic level 'sitting-up baby picks up food and eats it' makes So Much More Sense to me as a sign of readiness than 'follows DH's fork with eyes'.

If the baby can get the food to their mouth unaided, put it in their mouth, chew it, move it to the back of the throat and swallow it (not possible if they still have the tongue thrust reflex and no, not interested in posters telling me their 8wo didn't have it so that's why they weaned them [puts fingers in ears and goes la-la-la]), then I would say that's a fair sign their insides are ready - because it's an externally visible development that suggests that they're ready for food.

Having said that, if they were still 4-5m I'd not give foods that are known allergens (which in my case would be no fruit as I'm allergic to a fair number, and the ones I'm not allergic to can be allergenic [weirdo]), no gluten, no dairy.

Sometimes babies will pick food up, mouth it and it'll fall out because they can't get it to the back of their throat and swallow it. It'll fall out if they're sitting upright though - which is why I am not a fan of reclining highchairs.

I don't believe there's any relevance to night waking where weaning readiness is concerned - SO many other things could be waking a baby that we can't know about - teething, tummy ache, etc, etc. The link there is tenuous and illogical, to me.

You are wise as usual [reverent bow]

That reverent bow was for Aitch - but hey, you can have one too Hunker.[reverent bow]

I think there should be more reverent bowing on MN.

g'day hunk. good point about the gluten-y things. the baby might be eating but you're still in charge of what they're given iykwim, so i'd keep it strictly fruit and veg til 6 months just to be on the safe side.
what did you do PT?

reverent bow right back atcha, fluffy san.

i'm right with hunker on the reclining chairs, btw. and i'm not overly convinced by bumbos, either. the one time dd choked she cleared it by waggling her legs and banging her back against the chair (i was giving her a hefty thump at the time, too). so i always wonder what would have happened if she'd been in a bumbo. mind you, she hated hers so it's a moot point.

Im a great believer in the picking up food & trying to eat it signs....alongside the ability to sit unaided (to help prevent choking)....but if a child of mine started doing these before 6 months & would probably err on the side of caution & still not offer solids until after 6 months....I personally went as close as 7 months as we could after reading that babies dont get some gut enzymes that are needed to digest some solids until nearer 7 months.....its makes sense to me that internal biological developments like that would happen at more or less the same time for most babies similar to the way babies develop in the woomb...I have no idea if thats right...but it makes sense to my non-medical brain! . Nature rarely gets it wrong & it seems logical to me that babies wouldnt be able to actually eat food unless they could disgest it...just as they dont start walking until their leg muscles are strong enough...I am happy that I wouldnt be doing them any harm by waiting as long as possible as bm will be all they actually need until at least 1 year. Im not sure though what my thoughts would be if I formula fed as it doesnt change with the needs of the child like bm does...I suppose that depends a lot on the child themselves as whether the formula they have happens to be just right for them iyswim...

I dont think night waking has anything to do with readiness for solids at all. Its normal for babies to wake in the night for a variety of reasons & I really dont see how it can be related to maturity of the gut....babies sleep cycles are a lot shorter than ours & so they do wake more often in the night. Sometimes they are in pain (e.g teething) which means when they come out of a deep sleep at the end of a cycle they wake up & need soothing back to sleep...or they need more milk because they are having a growth spurt or are too distracted to feed in the day....or they wake because their stomachs are small & they need feeding more often....solids wouldnt make any difference (for the right reasons) to those scenarios....

I actually think it's a hell of a lot more natural for a baby to wake up at night than people are led to believe these days.

Disclaimer I also know there are some babies who cheerfully sleep through the night and are in no way forced to by their loving parents.

PMSL at me cross-posting with your reverent bow for Aitch, FA - and thank you for mine

my dd had her pincer grip at 4 months too. she could sit up v. early too but she steadfastly refused to eat solids (blw or purees) till 10 months old.

was her gut ready at 6 months, i don't know but i trusted my baby adn did not try to cajole, trick or get all upset that she wouldn't eat a thing.

btw, her father and grandfather have eczema even into adulthood and speaking to in laws, it turns out that several babies in the family refused the same foods well past the weaning stage. at 2 yrs she won't eat egg (a common allergen)in any shape or form.

i hope i haven't come across as preachy but for me, i just try to let my dd lead me. if she is refusing it, she is refusing it for an instinctive reason, not because she wants to be contrary.

as i am a lazy feck who is not going to prepare stuff just to bung it in the bin shortly afterwards.

should add to the last sentence,

it works out sensibly for me too ...

And when does the food actually start to be digested and not just appear to go straight through a baby's body with no changes? I sometimes wonder if my 7.5 month old actually gets any nutrition from her solid food (although her hand eye co-ordination is coming on in leaps and bounds)

MT, I think that food pretty much passes through babies fed purees initially - it's just you can't tell because it's like puree both ends.

to everyone on this thread for managing to have a sensible discussion about weaning

My ds2 was just over 5 months when he grabbed food, chewed and swallowed. I had been wanting to wait til 6 months, but did start weaning soon after he stole my food (might have started straight away if christmas and new year hadn't been in the way.

Like PT's ds he had the motor skills.

Manictigger, that is an excellent question!
My ds is 13 months and I think I've only just stopped seeing chunks of carrot in his nappies (sorry TMI). I'd love to know what this tells us about readiness for solids.

Mind you, it means I don't need to worry about reading ds's nursery daily report to find out what he had for lunch, I just read his nappy instead. "Ah that'll be the cheesy bean pie and raisins at snack time then."

Hey, I've started a trend! We'll spend so long bowing reverently that we won't look up to the PC screens any more.

Can you tell I'm trying to avoid writing my students' essay feedback sheets?

The fact that it seems to pass through without changes suggests to me that the enzymes and bacteria needed for their breakdown and digestion either aren't yet present or aren't working properly yet so.... logically, advice like that from Kellymom must be right - solids up to a year are purely given to the baby so they can get used to the taste and texture etc, they probably won't get much nutritional stuff out of it because their bodies aren't sufficiently developed to do so. Finally, it's starting to make sense. I wonder if that means I only have to start taking this solid food thing seriously when I KNOW she's swallowed stuff and I don't find it in her nappy. (IYKWIM)

Oh, and reverential bows all round.

I think the nearer they get to 12 months, the more they do need solids. When my ds had a bad bout of flu / tonsilitis just after Christmas and couldn't eat, he didn't really start to get better until he started eating solids again, despite me giving him lots of milk to make up for it. The day he suddenly showed an interest in my toast he instantly perked up and had some energy to play.

i kept ds gluten and dairy free but would have done so no matter what the age as dd does have allergies. he had egg accidentally so i didn't keep him away from that

it should also be pointed out that i took the self feeding thing to extremes just to be safe..... i wouldn't even hold a piece of food for him to take a bite, everything he ate he picked up, bit off, chewed and swallowed completely by himself.

also, til he was 6 months there were days he had no food at all, and he never had more than one meal a day..... even now at 8 months i can't convince him to eat any breakfast (unless it's pancakes or french toast!) and he will rarely eat through the day.