Going to start weaning 4mth old this week..........................

[Flumpybumpy]

Spoke to my HV as DS is feeding very well with formula. He is putting on weight well and very happy. Sleeps through etc etc....
He is taking a real interest in food and started waking for night feeds etc classic signs that they want more.
My friend is horrified that I am not waiting until he is 6mths, like the guidelines say.
Told HV, she said that weaning is not recommneded until the baby is 6mths however, I am his Mum and she is only there to offer advice, I should do whatever I feel is right for my baby and seek her advice if I need help.
I weaned DD at 4mths with no problems at all, and have to say I find this 'you mustn't do this / that' attitude a bit much.
I know they are only going by new guidelines etc... but my HV does have apoint, all babies are different and only their Mothers know them well to enough to make informed decisions. Maybe we all need to trust our instincts more and use the 'professionals' for support and advice rather than a rulebook.
FB x
P.S. not too sure about BLW though

p.s And I have to say - I'm still not sure whether he is happier because he is fuller thanks to a few extra calories, or he is happier because he isn't so reflux-y. But he is happier, and that makes me happy.

I thought adding anything solid to bottles was a no no beacause of the risk of choking?

Sorry YP - so many things seem wrong about what you've just said, but I don't feel qualified to rebuff them. I'd be interested to know what Hunker (eg.) makes of it.

We're talking about a very very small bit of rice added to EBM - it is very very very runny - can be sucked through a 0-3 month teat!

It's not just choking though, it can cause wind and colic too

I dont think advocating putting baby rice in a bottle is appropriate. It has been warned against because of being a choking risk more than anything else.

I disagree about babies not wanting to wait. How do they know what they want at 4 months/6 months? We are responsible for deciding for them.

It is my understanding (I'm sure hunker will clarify), that research comparing babies who have had sleep/settling issues and were weaned early because of, and babies with the same trouble settling/sleep issues who were not weaned early settled down in exactly the same amount of time. Thus, indicating that weaning has not been proven to settle babies or improving their sleep since the non-weaned babies also settled (simply by being given more milk).

YP, banana is not a good weaning food. Loads of babies are allergic to banana.

Well, he is a heck of a lot happier and certainly isn't colicky. That may be down to extra calories though...I really am not sure. But he wasn't happy with just breast milk - and it definitely wasn't a growth spurt (2 weeks of 1-2hrly feeding and an unhappy baby). He only gets rice a couple of times a day, and I had started by giving him it made quite thick (from a spoon obviously) after his feeds before I wondered about the reflux thing. Now I give him a morning feed then a 'breakfast' of thickened EBM and he has a bit of rice from a spoon at tea time after his feed. Whatever the reason, he is happier with a bit of food. As he gets bigger I'll make it thicker.

If it's just a very very small amount of rice added to EBM, how much difference will it make anyway?

Adding things to bottles isn't advised because of choking risk, as well as obesity.

YP, you've been had. VVV is correct - weaning doesn't help babies to sleep.

Most babies get unsettled at that age and then settle, whether weaned or not.

Babies grow out of reflux (as you know of course).

Think I should just add this:

He has had thickened milk from a bottle a couple of times only - it is very runny, but it does seem to result in him being happier. I don't know whether that is because he is refluxy and it settles his tummy by staying in there longer, or because he is hungry and it fills him up. The rice in the evening goes down very happily too and he settles off to sleep more easily.
I decided to do this myself (the bottle thing), with no advice from anyone else (GP/HV). But as a serious question - what do you give thicker formula through? Do you have to cup feed?
I wonder whether the solids in bottles advice comes from people dissolving rusks in tea (apparently a liverpudlian trick for settling a fussy baby acc to my relatives) so there would be solid bits floating about?

I am not going to stop giving him rice - I don't think I'll give him other food till at least 4 months and probably 6 months as he is settled now.

As far as the original poster goes - I don't think that it is unusual to wean before 6 months, and I think it is fab that your HV is supportive of you.

And I didn't think it would help him sleep -he still wakes at night and that is fine by me - but it does mean that he doesn't spend all his waking hours crying for food and sucking my nipples to bits! Hungry? Reflux? Growth spurt? I don't know. But like I said -he is now happy.
But I have totally hijacked the original posters thread and I am sorry. This is my last post!

Dont give it in a bottle.

Give him a teaspoon of rice before you start a feed or at the end of a feed if you have to.

This is interesting - a bit long and off topic, apologies!

It's the abstract of a study published in a very well respected medical journal.

------
Pediatrics. 1986 Mar;77(3):322-9.

Sleep/wake patterns of breast-fed infants in the first 2 years of life.

Elias MF, Nicolson NA, Bora C, Johnston J.

Published norms for infant sleep/wake patterns during the first 2 years of life include an increase in length of maximum sleep bout from four to five to eight to ten hours by 4 months but little decrease in total sleep in 24 hours from 13 to 15 hours.

Thirty-two breast-fed infants were followed for 2 years and data collected on 24-hour patterns of nursing and sleep. Infants who were breast-fed into the second year did not develop sleep/wake patterns in conformance with the norms. Instead of having long unbroken night sleep, they continued to sleep in short bouts with frequent wakings. Their total sleep in 24 hours was less than that of weaned infants. This pattern was most pronounced in infants who both nursed and shared a bed with the mother, common practices in many nonwestern cultures.

The sleep/wake development accepted as the physiologic norm may be attributable to the early weaning and separated sleeping practiced in western culture. As prolonged breast-feeding becomes more popular in our society, the norms of sleep/wake patterns in infancy will have to be revised.

-----
What they're saying is that sleeping long hours isn't necessarily the natural way for babies to sleep - it may not be good for them to sleep so long. So trying to get a baby to sleep might not be in their best interests.

I believe it is advised against because people were putty cereal into bottles and there is a risk of choking. Personally I wouldnt do it. It cant be providing extra calories as milk has far more.

agree with vvv, if you must do it then at least avoid the risk of choking.

Anonymous Dr. I appreciate the honesty in you post, but I have a problem with your argument. You say "but they're not arguing as a doctor, they're arguing as a mum"

I am a lawyer (well, ex-lawyer) and mum to a son, does that mean that it is ok to advise my clients on the basis of being a mum, rather than on the basis of being a lawyer ?

I have argued this on another thread, where another health prof. made a similar statement to yours.

Health professionals have a "duty of care" (as do lawyers, and every other professional that is heavily regulated) to their patients. If they don't know anything about bf, then they should keep silent about it.
I keep my mouth shut about areas of law I know nothing about.

They really should not make comments or judgements re. bf which may (and sadly often do if you keep reading the bf threads here) lead to an UNDERMINING of bf.

It is unprofessional.

i don't think anonymousdr was condoning it. i think she was just illustrating the fact that your average gp knows incredibly little about breastfeeding and weaning. i think we all knew that anyway, but it is good to hear a doctor say so from their own experience.

I know Dizzy, but isn't it then best to keep silent rather than talk rubbish as they often do ?

YR, I completely agree that health professionals should be impartial.

But we're talking here about the most emotive topic possible - feeding a baby - and my feeling is that parenthood is such a powerful experience that it will colour your opinions forever (whether you admit it or not).

I don't think there's an equivalent situation in legal practice, or certainly not such a common one.

Doctors aren't robots, and nor should they be.

I think the best any professional can do is to admit that they're human, and try to have insight as to where their personal experiences might be colouring their professional opinions.

Yes, knowing the limits of your knowledge is a very important skill - sadly, not very many doctors seem to realise how little they know about feeding babies.

agree, AD. my GP couldn't breastfeed and so used formula with her two strapping lads. she refers to the 'bfing mafia' as if it were a real organisation...
sometimes i quite liked her 'formula is fine' approach, especially when i was feeling bad about my failing bfing, but now that i look back i think she could have fought a bit harder for me to get specialist help earlier. but hey, she's only human i suppose.

The problem ( as I see it) is that breastfeeding and weaning are seen as common sense things, not medical issues. So it's easy for a doctor to accept lay practices of breastfeeding (eg what their mum says) without questioning them or reading up.

The same doctor would never accept a lay opinion on diabetes or treatment of blood pressure.

Which leads to the question, is breastfeeding a medical issue? Should it belong to doctors at all?

I am not sure calling bf mums (or bf mums who try to support other bf mums) members of a mafia is very polite or very helpful to the bf/weaning debate.

I don't know any bf mums who regularly buy/sell/run drugs, pimp prostitutes, nor murder for the sake of money.

Perhaps you GP knows a few though ?

Well - I think so. Simply because of the medical conditions associated with misguided feeding/weaning and conditions that can be caused by incorrect latching etc etc. A woman with mastitis, sore cracked nipples, thrush, an unwell non/feeding baby would all go to a GP - wouldnt they, for treatment.

A HV cannot prescribe anything for the above so GP visit necessary.

HV's should be in possession of completely up to date knowledge. No excuse not to really.