Can't get my head around BLW (epic, sorry)

[Luxnuova]

I would love to pick people's brains a bit about the pros and cons of BLW. Sorry if this is a done-to-death topic, but it is really on my mind at present, with 6mo DD. I had read up on BLW before weaning a few weeks ago, and liked it a lot in theory. I am all for letting her move at her own pace, enjoying discovering food, and the idea of her eating with us at mealtimes was hugely appealing. Ditto avoiding the food fussiness that I've seen with some acquaintances' young ones. So, we began with cut/half-peeled banana, steamed broccoli, the usual. She did really well, but I have been FREAKING OUT. I find it really hard not to fixate on her choking. I've read all the choking v. gagging things. But, here's the thing. She is exceedingly keen on food, and she stuffs it in. She gagged a few times, and I did the recommended waiting it out, smiling, etc. But, each time I'm shaking and my heart feels like it's going to stop. I know they're meant to learn, and to move it around their mouths and all. But, the other day with some steamed broccoli, she basically bit off a large piece of the stalk - it was soft, but if it had gone down by accident, she definitely would have choked. We don't let our babies play with toys with small parts, due to this risk...so why do we assume they'll always be able to do it when it's food? I also find the issue of getting stuff the right shape and texture (soft enough to 'chew', hard enough to hold) a lot more labour-intensive and somehow counterintuitive.

So, I guess my question is... when do we trust maternal instinct in such things? On a google search for BLW, one of the first autofill prompts is 'Babyled Weaning Choking'. Questions about choking dominate all the forums and places like Yahoo Questions, etc. Clearly I'm not the only one who worries about it. Is it worth paying attention to this seeming collective maternal concern? And, what about the collective wisdom of previous generations? There's certainly some gut instinct that suggests that we mince/mash food for toothless little people. I know that parenting by past example is hardly recommended - only need to look a generation back at our mums drinking and smoking during pregnancy to ram home that argument. But...

Okay, the other thing (and I'm being devil's advocate here, a little) is intake. DD is big for her age - 75th centile for weight, etc. She's EBF and drinks a LOT, still taking three-hourly breastfeeds, and I currently have her eating two solid meals a day. Due to the hesitation noted above, I've been giving her normal meals, but usually of a mash-y texture. So, porridge and fruit or mashed banana for brekkie, then veges/tofu/fish/egg at night. I help her eat with a spoon, ie load it and hand it to her, and she is pretty good at it. But, there's no way she could consume the amount that she seems to want without the spoon. She doesn't have the manual dexterity yet. I know 'food is fun until you're one', but...she's hungry! Seriously. And her sleep has improved since being on solids which makes me think she's getting what she needs now.

Sorry for the EPIC post, I've just been rehearsing the pros and cons in my head for ages and wondered if others have also pondered this. Some mums I know swear by BLW, and I liked it a great deal in theory. I'd love to be convinced back to it.

No advice but I share your concerns re. BLW. Im absolutely petrified of choking. Will be watching this thread with interest!

Ok.

Firstly, do you know what to do in the event of choking? It might be worth doing a paediatric first aid course if you're not sure (red cross do them regularly)

Secondly, have you looked at www.babyledweaning.com - LOADS of help and advice there.

Thirdly, babies can choke on puréed food. The only way to avoid the risk is to not wean, but that would be bonkers. Toys often say don't give to children under 3 due to small parts - but none of us would think about not giving food to a 3 year old in case they choke

The biggest choking risk is whole grapes as they're the perfect size and shape to block a windpipe, and nigh on impossible to get out. If you cut them in half lengthways, then they should be fine. Do the same with cherry tomatoes.

I'd ignore the Google auto fill as a reason to worry.

It is scary. But it doesn't have to be terrifying.

And just give them what you're having - don't worry too much about making stuff the exact right shape or texture.

I am a nurse, have done training courses, know what to do when babies choke etc.

I was really looking forward to trying BLW with my second child, however it was the most stressful thing ever.

DD just shoved everything in her mouth, would gag & choke etc

I just couldn't do it.

Meant to add, I spoon fed her, mostly just what we were having mashed up, she was able to use spoon herself quite quickly though.

Just feed her the way that leaves you happy and relaxed. It isn't baby led anyway-it is entirely mother led in what and when she eats.

Give her a spoon to wave about-they get it fairly quickly. We just used to call them finger foods.

I Baby Led Weaned. As long as you know what to do when choking occurs you will be fine.
If you are sitting down together what tended to happen was that DS would instinctively watch Mum eat some food like broccoli for instance and then watch Dad eat it and then mimic how we ate. I found it fascinating. Also he started not to put everything in his mouth and only put things in his at mouth at the high chair. I can only say this in respect of my child.

But if you are have misgivings you don't want to have a stressed out atmosphere at the dining table.

I gave up on BLW recently. It was a quantity thing as well for me, he just couldn't get enought food in to sate his appetite quick enough.

I now spoon feed him 95% of the time and he is loving his food, its wonderful to watch. I give him some foods off my plate too to play with and experiment and that seems to work well.

The most frustrating thing for me about BLW was baby gagging on a lump then regurgitating everything in his tummy that he had spent so long trying to eat. Not to mention the ick-ness of said stomach contents all over the highchair tray. Yack.

Thanks for all the responses, it's really fascinating and am grateful to get this cross section of thought on it. Reassuring to know I'm not the only one facing this dilemma.

Flisspaps - Thanks so much for your detailed response. I have booked on a first-aid course, and do hope it will make me feel better. Though, perhaps not, given Fannyfifer's background!

Yep, have read the BLW site back to front, and used to log on to check it just before feeding her something new, to steel myself, as it were. I love the attitude of the site in general.

I've heard this on BLW forums before about babies just as likely (if not more so) to choke on purees. This sort of makes me confused, though. BLWers often stress the difference between gagging and choking. I know babies can gag on puree - but can they really choke on it if they're sitting up? ie in the strict definition of a blockage to the windpipe that can't be resolved by gagging/coughing and must be dislodged? My thought was it had to be a shape that would obstruct the pipe, so liquids/dissolveable things weren't a risk, and objects like grapes, cherry tomatoes, pieces of meat, whole nuts etc were. This is why I feel a lot easier in my mind with the spoon - there's never anything on it that could actually block her windpipe. Whereas with BLW, there have been several moments where she could quite easily have bitten off a bit that could do so. It's the risk of choking that would stop me, not the risk of gagging, which she's done a few times (and still freaks me out hugely and does put me off).

In terms of not overthinking shape or texture, say we had given her what we had last night - homemade korean. Rice - okay. Strips of beef...I confess would really have challenged my resolve. (Would have been curious to see what she'd make of the Kim Chi .) I mean, if I were ever in the position to lose all my teeth, I would be a bit nonplussed to have to face a meal like that. And then I come back to the quantity/variety thing (as you mention barleysugar). Okay, we could shape our meals a bit more to suit her, I do see that...

I've been feeling a bit of a wuss, or as if perhaps I was letting DD down, so do admit that responses from Fannyfifer, exoticfruits and barleysugar are reassuring to me personally. I mean, that I'm not the only one who has these qualms. I admire the BLWers who are making it work, and am sure that any risks are really slight, esp. if you know the First Aid. I can see that it's about trusting the baby's developing skills. But, (that little voice in the back of my head again), eg I trust my baby to sit up unaided now and that doesn't mean she doesn't overbalance from time to time...just don't want a mistake with worse consequences IYSWIM.

I think less stress in general is a good thing, as per smearedinfood's suggestion - different strokes, etc, and we'll proceed down the lumpy mash pathway for a while longer, with fingerfoods increasing as we go. Sorry, another epic post. I'm an overtyper.

It is like all things-everything in moderation. I have just had soup for lunch-if the baby is going to experience the mixed diet, that most people experience, there is room for both. I like to mash my bananas-I would be a bit miffed if I wasn't allowed to!
You can't overfeed the baby which is the thing that people seem to fear.I never got mine to eat anything they didn't want!

Blw progresses very quickly I found. Ds1 was a mixture of purées and finger foods an ds2 much more emphasis on blw. He was eating what we ate from 6 months and i mean everything. From memory he has chocked once or twice, ds1 choked much more often on purées.

Also the mess, goddammit the mess!

Holy hell, yes the mess is incredible! Even with full bib coverage and splashmat. Another reason I'm kind of awed by hardcore BLW. It's messy enough with a spoon. Thanks hermionestranger, that's interesting and encouraging to know. So, nothing was cut up or cooked any differently? Did you mean choking or gagging with DS1 on the purees?

You only tend to get the negative things on the web I think. My DD was really good with self feeding. She's shovelling them in, and never gagged or choked. I think by 9mo, she was eating a lot, which even the nursery commented on. She regularly have 2-3 of those ikea weaning bowls of food for lunch.

Give it a try, and she might surprise you.

I did Blw with dd1 who is now 4, we all really enjoyed it and she ate loads. However looking back it was all a bit forced as I was cooking entirely separately for her which seems to cancel out a lot of the convenience. We'd be having pasta or whatever and she'd be having veg sticks galore. I spoon fed soup if she would let me, or used bread to dip. Same with yoghurt etc.
Fast forward to dd2 and I think we might be doing it properly! She eats what we eat at the same times as us, she gets it plonked on her high chair tray and she shovels it up! Started at 6 mths, now at 13mths she uses a spoon really well, eats a really wide range of foods, and from a selfish point of view I have never had to sit and feed her! It's lovely to all sit round the table and have the same thing for tea!

Anyway my point is, I honestly don't see what you wouldn't like about it! Apart from the mess I suppose but I guess you would get that with purée too? I would give it a go!

Just re read and see that she is 6mths, you will see a world of difference even between now and eg 9mths.

Also re shaping your meals more to suit her, yes I think so to a certain point, but not to a silly point. It's a compromise! But in my case also down to laziness, I don't want to cook twice!

Did you know that a baby's gag reflex is a lot further forward than an adult's? As I understand it, this means that if a large piece of food (for example the brocolli stalk) was to make it's way about halfway down the baby's tongue without being chewed, it would be gagged/spat out immediately as it would trigger this more sensitive gag reflex. This is also the reason for that tongue-pushing-out thing that small babies do.

The thinking that purees are more/just as likely to be choked on is because if you're spooning it in you're bypassing that gag reflex area in the middle of the tongue. But I'm not quite sure of the mechanics in detail.

I don't know. I'm laid back. I suspect different methods suit different people!

I cooked everything the same, obviously not using salt but that's no bad thing for the family as a whole. For stuff like steak and pork, etc I cut it up into pieces he could easily hold but otherwise no. He also uses cutlery well already. A spoon and a fork and likes to have a knife to stab at things.

I mean choking, red in the face couldn't breath. Not gagging. I only discovered that blw had a name when I came on here though. It just felt more instinctive for me but I'm very much horses for courses.

Listen to your instincts! BLW has massively worked for us, but it's not for everyone. If you're stressed your little one will pick up on this. You need to make mealtimes as enjoyable as possible :)

The only way BLW is going to work is if you relax. If you have reservations, just don't do it!

You can just take some of the main principles though... shared mealtimes, shared food, following your babies lead.

Good advice above. Remember that choking is silent, gagging isn't. They need to learn to move food around their mouth and gagging is part of this.

We had about 3 gagging incidents between 6 and 12 months - cheese on toast, pasta and something else I can't remember. I had taken a paediatric first aid course so when I was sure that he was gagging rather than choking I would sit on my hands and count to 10. The last thing you want to do is stick your hand in and make it worse. Have confidence in your baby. We never got past 5, he always sorted himself out. Gagging is good, and necessary!

After a gagging incident I would just wait a week or so and then offer the food again. They change so fast at that age in their ability to handle different foods.

Those of you saying that your baby needs lots of food, are you giving milk first? 'Food is fun' really only works if you let the baby control when to drop milk feeds.

You don't have to do it, you know

There are many roads to Rome and all that.

If you are more comfortable spoon feeding, do it.

If you want to spoonfeed, say, breakfast and tea, to get some quantity in, and let her have a play at lunchtime, do it.

With mine, I spoonfed DS1 for far too long.

Wtih DS2, and the DTS, they were offered finger food, alongside a bit of spoonfeeding from 6 months, and by 9 months they were away with the finger food and were hardly ever spoonfed - in fact DTD won't be spoonfed in any shape or form any more.

Their ability to eat develops hugely between 6-9 months in my experience, and at this stage if you prefer to spoon a bit in then do it. There's no prizes for being a purist, and the vast majority of children end up eating perfectly well, however you wean them.

Good luck, whatever you choose

I spoonfed DD as well as offered finger food from 6 months. This was for a whole host of reasons. She eats with us most meals, and if not I sit with her and have a cup of tea.

At 16 months she spoon and fork feeds herself (scooping/stabbing as well as putting in her mouth) and eats a wide variety of food and most importantly for me, she will try everything, she may not like it, but she will try. There are some odd things she doesn't like (potato!) and some odd things she loves (really stinky cheese!).

I think that you can take some key elements from BLW (such as offering finger foods from 6 mouths, offering your food and eating with your child) and also do spoonfeeding as well. It is important to be confident and not anxious whatever you do.

I think that knowing basic firstaid - what to do if a child chokes is good, no matter how you choose to wean.

I remember going for lunch at a park cafe - ds2 was maybe about 8 months, there were two other mums and babies there, perhaps they were a couple of months older. They spent ages spoon feeding their little ones before they could have their own lunch, ds2 just got on with it. Other people would try to spoon feed him, sometimes he accepted it but sometimes he would assert that he wanted control back - he's still very much he wants to do things, much more than ds1 who wants us to baby him (competition I think).

I was told by HV not to worry too much about the nutrition element of BLW because they get it from the milk. It is more about them learning to eat.

My 6 day old baby did choke on a vomit and was blue lighted to A&E ( was fine ) so I was really paranoid about choking. I found that they gagged and brought bits back up rather than choke, and this was just part of the learning process.

By the time I weaned my 3rd, it felt like the most natural thing, no puree, just gave her a bit of what everyone else had, I might have mashed some stuff up with a fork. It is so easy once you get used to it. Hope it works out ok for you.