How to fit milk feeds around solids????

[Confusedmum23]

Hi all,
I started weaning my DS at 18 weeks and now that he is 6 months old, I am wondering if I am giving him enough milk. He has multiple food protein allergies and reflux and so he is on Neocate which is vile and he hates it and will only drink it when he is absolutely hungry or thirsty or half-asleep. Currently he has solids at breakfast, lunch and dinner, and only have milk at 2.30pm (5oz) 6.30pm (3oz) and 11pm (5oz). At his age he is definitely not having enough and I am worried as he is gradually dropping in percentile. How should I fit more milk feeds in without jeopardising the goal of weaning which is to get him onto 3 meals a day like a grown-up? And how do we know when to give him in-between-meals snacks??? Thanks! x

Does he have milk as soon as he wakes up in the morning? And does he still wake in the night hungry?

If your worried about his milk intake I would ease off on the amounts of solids he's having. You can still offer solids 3 times a day but may be not so much. Is he purees or baby led?

He could have milk when he wakes for the day. Breakfast an hour or so later then milk mid morning, then lunch, then milk for afternoon snack time, then a solid tea, then milk at bed time.

Does he have a sippy cup with water in while he's trying the solids?

Overall I'd slow down/cut back the solids. He'll come to all that in good time. And from around nine months he'll get much better at putting food in his mouth himself.

I used to make some soup and get soft bits of bread and dunk them in the soup and give to DD to try. Solids are just for experimenting at this age rather than filling them up.

Hi bumbums,
Thanks for your message. We cut out the morning milk as he would not have solids afterwards. I did discuss with a maternity nurse as to whether we could feed him milk at 7am and maybe the solids later around 8-ish, but her experience tells her that this is dragging out breakfast too much and will impact the lunch. I could never get DS to drink after solids. As mentioned he hates his formula. I did manage to get him to drink twice between breakfast and lunch solids, though it meant the amount of lunch solids was reduced and I needed to entertain him even harder to get him to eat! He is on purees etc. both homemade ones and shop bought ones too. He loves Ella's Kitchen it seems more than the ones I make!

Dd always gets 8oz milk first thing and 8oz milk last thing, that way anything else in the day is given as she wants. I also add in a bottle for her lunchtime nap of which she drinks 4/5 oz. Her day goes

6.30am -8oz milk
8.30am - breakfast: slice of toast to kunch while I spoon in porrige and she has a few oramge segments to suck on
10.30am - offer milk before nap (has up to 4oz)
Sleep
12.30pm - lunch of whatever I have plus water
1.30pm - offer milk before nap (has up to 4oz)
4pm - tea of jar of something plus finger stuff to nibble and water
4.30 - offer milk (takes max 3oz)
6.15 - milk before.bed (8oz)

If she wakes at all before 6.30am I try and re settle with dummy and if she doesnt re settle gets max 3oz before I put her back to bed.

Dd is 6mo and FF.

Thanks, GnocchiNineDoors! This is very helpful! Seems like you are so advanced in weaning as compared to me! I can't get him to eat any toast at breakfast. Sorry but do you not feel like you seem to be feeding her all day? The reason why I asked was I used to do more milk feeds like you do, though not as many, but found myself constantly feeding/cleaning up afterwards/preparing next meal. I was so tired I couldn't do much other stuff. Maybe i am just inefficient!

Yep, constantly. I was getting worried, but as we are doing baby led weaning / mainly finer foods, she actually doesnt take that much stuff in. Plus, I figure the quicker she learns to chew / swallow / eat proper food rather than milk, the better and so while it might seem like an endless ream of feeding at the moment, I am aiming for a better timetable in a few weeks.

The ideal for me would be :
6.30am - 8oz milk(dont want to change this as when I go back to work we need to leave the house at 7)
8.00am - breakfast (again, DD will be at CMs and I really dont see me fitting in breakfast and milk before we leave the house)
Nap in there somewhere
12pm - lunch
1pm - Milk before nap
4pm - dinner (DH and I eat after she is in bed and CM feeds her kids at 4pm)
6.30pm - milk before bed

So, am working towards something, really, and at the moment just spending a lot of time on feeds to enable dd to experience a wide range of foods etc.

With the toast / finger foods, she sits in her bumbo or walker, I give her fingers of toast or wedges of oranges or half a banana and I sit and have a cuppa with my eyes on her while she munches, so really, although it feels like im always feeding her, I do get a bit of a break while she explores.

I also prepare all bottles in one go, so pretty much make up a full days worht of feeds so dont have that to think about, and DD gets a jar of food for at least one meal, so I dont have to think about it.

Also, a good idea is to portion up a share of what you and DH have for your tea and serve it to her for lunch the next day so one less meal to thinka bout.

My twins are 7mo and I started weaning at about 25 weeks. Their routine is as follows
7am wake, bf for 20-30 mins
8am breakfast - either porridge or weetabix with fruit, sometimes a yoghurt afterwards if still hungry
9am nap
11am bottle of 5-6oz
1130-12 ish lunch with protein - whatever we had the previous night usually
1-230 nap
330 bottle of 5-6 oz
4-430 ish tea, usually something vege or eggy, plus yoghurt or fruit
5pm nap sometimes depending on how earlier naps went
6pm bath, 7-8oz bottle, bed

I think they're supposed to have 20oz of milk until 12 months old. No idea how much mine have as partially bf but they sleep for 12 hours and are holding their centile line so must be ok.

(Also if not getting at least 500ml /20oz formula milk then need to give vitamin drops)

Oh and I have trained mine to hold their own bottles in bouncy chairs so bottle feeding is easy for me!

Yes, bottles with handles or sippy cups are a time saver

at 6 months our day went like this:
7am - milk
8am - breakfast
11am - milk
12pm - lunch
3pm - milk
5pm - dinner
7.15pm - milk

I didnt give snacks until the daytime feeds were dropped - at 9 months the 11am milk was dropped and replaced with a snack and drink of water. By 11 months the 3pm milk feed was also replaced with a snack and water.

What allergies does he have? This has a huge impact on weaning. Have you been referred to a dietician? If not I'd request it as weaning with allergies is a different ball game.

However at that age, I used to give milk midway between solids, so it does feel like you are constantly feeding. By about 9 months it gets easier.

I think you might need specialist advice though, as Neocate does indeed taste rank, and a dietician may be able to suggest other ways of giving him the nutrients he needs. Will he eat milky porridge, or something like that?

Hi all, thanks! My DS cannot hold a bottle nor his sippy cup properly despite after all these weeks of weaning, and so unfortunately I can't let him feed himself! Neither are we doing BLW, I think that is courageous as doing the non-BLW and the clearing up is already such a nightmare!

Jojay, you are right with the allergies and how weaning could be carried out. When he was born, he had this constant straining in his tummy which would go on all night and day and which affected his feeds as he would be so focused on straining. Took him to see a paediatrician who suspected multiple food protein allergies, and unless I cut out diary / soy / eggs / nuts / wheat / yeast / shellfish / citrus fruits, I should stop BFing. Oh yes he suffers from reflux too. I am ashamed to admit I didn't think I could manage with such a limited diet and so that was when Neocate was introduced. His medical condition meant we couldn't just give him a bit of what we eat!

Hi, I have many questions following your very helpful responses, please bear with me! GnocchiNineDoors, according to your preferred schedule, what time would you need to get up then to get ready for work and to get your DD ready for the day at the CM? As for making up the whole day's bottle feeds, I was told that formula milk needs to be discarded after 1 hour? And I would manage to get at best 10 baby spoonfuls of solids (purees with rice or cereal or potato) into my DS without him having any milk an hour before, is that too little as you mentioned your DD has a jar? I am thinking, if I offer milk before solids, even if an hour before, he would take even less solids???

And ceeveebee, wow what achievement especially with two on the go at the same time! As you can tell, I am struggling with just one! Seems like your babies have good appetite and they must be doing well as mine doesn't sleep through from 11pm to 7am, let alone for 12 hours! Argh! Again how much solids do they take if they would have milk an hour before the solids? Seona1973, the same question for you please! Thanks you all must be able to tell I am desperate and sleep-deprived and ignorant! xx

Oh and meant to mention that on a good day my DS can finish one Ella's Kitchen's pouch?

Get up at 6, half an hour to get myself ready (shower in evening wash in morning) DD gets milk and goes to CM in pjs with her day clothes to be changed into.

I buy the little jars so dd eats one of them (or near enough) but Ive never given her baby rice as it tastes vile (which might be why your ds doesnt eat masses of it)

I am of the understanding that bottles can be made and refridgerated for 24 hours. Once a bottle has been started, it should be used or discarded within an hour. Ive done t this way since birth.

I also work with the idea that "food is fun until youre one" so getting the milk into dd s more important than food so milk first, filk up with food later.

Thanks, GnocchiNineDoors! All sounds reasonable! Thank you x

at 6 months old milk is considered more important than solids. I only started solids at 23 weeks so the meals that ds took to start with were tiny. In addition to the schedule I gave above ds also had a night feed up until he was 8 months old (5 feeds in 24 hours up till 8 months, dropped to 4 day feeds when he gave up the night feed. Was down to 3 milk feeds at 9 months and down to 2 feeds by 11 months).

confused, two is no harder than one, one bowl and one spoon, and probably takes no longer as can give one a spoonful while other one is slowly chewing the last one!

There is another thread about quantities that I posted on yesterday

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/weaning/1500665-Solids-how-much?msgid=32519343#32519343

Confused - so the paed suspected multiple allergies. Did he not recommend allergy testing? Or was it intolerances he suspected? These are harder to pinpoint.

I too have twins who are now 11 months, but we found out the hard way with my boy twin that he is allergic to cows milk. After RAST testing we found out he's also allergic to eggs, and cats, and his sister is also, less severely, allergic to milk and eggs.

Watching your child have an allergic reaction is not pleasant and if allergies are suspected, I'd definitely want to talk to a paed/ dietician re weaning.

Most babies are excellent self regulators and will take as much milk and solids as they need, so try not to get hung up on quantities. His general health and weight gain is a much more important indicator, not how many spoonfuls or ounces you can get in.

But I still think you need specialist advice. Talk to your GP about getting referred to the right person.

Hi Jojay,
Thanks. We have been seeing paediatricians since he was 11 weeks. We are now working with a paediatric gastroentrologist specialist and the paediatric dietician he has referred to us. He doesn't think allergy tests are accurate or necessary, and the clinical symptoms observed of my DS are clear. If I am honest, I am desperate for my baby to sleep through the night as I have been sleep-deprived for this long with no end in sight, and was told that to achieve this his intake of milk and solids is crucial. But I just can't get him to drink enough milk at breakfast (0 oz) and at bedtime (max. 4oz). I have been adding the specialised formula to his food to ensure he gets enough nutrients, poor thing all his food taste like the horrible formula and this goes against the beauty of weaning? What formula do you use for your twins with their milk allergy? Soy? We tried my DS on soy yesterday and he didn't seem to like it either. I am desperate and clueless!

My twins are breastfed so no nasty formula luckily. That's why it wasn't until starting solids and DS having a bit of cheese that we found out about the allergies.

It does mean I have to be off dairy too though Very good for my waistline though - I'd recommend bfing twins and a dairy free diet as a very effective weightloss regime!

As for sleeping through the night, don't ask me - mine don't! I don't think in their case it's linked to food any more though, as they eat plenty, but the sleep is still pretty rubbish. They share a room and disturb each other which doesn't help, but there's not much we can do about that.

I think in your situation I'd accept I can't get much formula in, and try to pack as many vitamins and calories into the solids that he will eat - tricky but not impossible when he's dairy free as that's an obvious milk replacer and source of calories.

Remind me what foods he can't have? Dairy? Wheat?

Avocado is the highest calorie fruit I believe, and mashes with banana into a nice puree or sandwich filling.

Add olive oil to everything you can, like mashed potato etc, to up the calorie content.

Protein and complex carbs take longer to digest so think about using these if you want to fill him up for longer.

Soya milk (not organic) is a good source of calcium and vits and is fine for making cereal, white sauces etc. Something like porridge or weetabix made with soya milk should fill him up pretty well. Mine like the Alpro soya yoghurts too, though Asda's own brand ones taste a bit odd to me.

There's Oatly oat milk too, which he might prefer.

Once's he's onto finger food, Soreen's banana loaf is egg and dairy free, though I'm not sure about gluten as that's not an issue for me.

Maybe try making a smoothie with soya milk, banana and strawberries - would he drink that?

Speak to your HV about vitamin drops. They should be able to supply them very cheaply and you can mix them in with his food.

I always find this stage of weaning stressful though, and I've done it 4 times! One day they like something, the next day they don't. One day they want finger food and won't be spoon fed, the next it's the other way round.

Things will have settled down a lot by about 9 months, and I'm sure his intake will have increased. Keep offering a variety of foods, and finger food too, and he'll get there.

Hang on in there, sleep deprivation is tough, weaning is tough, weaning with allergies is extra tough but he will get there, honestly

Hey Jojay! Thanks so much for your message, so helpful and I am grateful. My DS has been diagnosed with multiple food protein allergies, and as no tests were done to determine which, diary / wheat / yeast / eggs / soy / shellfish / nuts are all to be avoided. At 11 weeks this diagnosis was made and I was to decide if I were to continue to bf. I am ashamed to admit that with the stress of his reflux i.e. GERD, I didn't think I could handle having to watch my diet so closely as to cut all those out. I was told that I could hardly eat out as if the restaurant adds butter to their cooking, I would "hurt" my baby. My sanity was already on the brink of non-existence at that time, thus the introduction of the horrible formula. Yes I did what you said you'd do - I am trying my best to give him as many of the foods he could have whilst making sure I give him mostly what he would like, as if he doesn't eat it that is even less vitamins and nutrients taken in! HOw do you make smoothies again???? Thanks for your encouragement, I am trying to hang in there!!! xx

Gawd, I don't blame you for giving up bfing - being dairy free is bad enough, cutting out all that lot would have been horrendous!

Hope things improve for you soon. I've found the allergy boards on here really useful for recipe ideas etc - maybe post there?

Take care x

I think if anyone doctor or not wanted to prescribe my baby such a restrictive diet I would be wanting the appropriate tests done. methinks some people use a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Even if said baby was intolerant to certain foods at a certain time it does not necessarily follow that it would develop into an allergy.

If tests showed all these foods should be excluded, I would definitely be looking for advice from a dietician re supplements etc.

Any health professional would tell you that milk should be the main food until the baby is a year old, so it would be worrying that you are having difficulty getting him to take the milk they have prescribed.

I really feel for you, weaning is a minefield for mothers with no restrictions so must be unbearably worrying for you.