Am I the only one who thinks baby led weaning is a stupid idea?

[chocablock]

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/mar/14/familyandrelationships

It seems as if everyone is doing BLW apart from me. What happened to the tried and tested traditional mashing up your baby's food and feeding it to them with a spoon? OK maybe let them play around with their own spoon a bit to get into practise but basically make sure they eat the food!!!Is there anyone else who thinks blw is new fangled stupidity? Or am I just a voice in the wildreness and hopelessly old fashioned?? :)

Yes, it's much better to force feed your baby the same textured food so they have no control over what's in there body, struggle to deal with textures and strong flavours later and turn it to fussy eaters!

This is one that I saw, sorry haven't got the time to go back over entire thred

sheep you are right of course that different feeding methods suit different babies/mums and I wasn't calling the mums doing blw stupid, I was having a rant about how blw seems to be the latest 'craze' which clearly may suit some babies but hasn't been researched properly and could cause babies to choke or not get enough food as they have not developed the co ordination to feed themselves properly. Also it is enjoyable to feed your baby with a spoon (IMO) and it is definitely not force feeding as the baby will tell you when she has had enough. Like exotic I also like to eat some purees myself eg mashed banana, yoghurt etc so purees are definitely not the disgusting 'pap' that some people have suggested! :)

look, let's get real here. spoon feeding CAN equal force feeding, we've all seen it, all that 'just a little bit more, darling, you've not finished your cube etc' encourages children to over-ride their appetites, and in a world of plenty that is a dangerous (and in the long term, medically expensive) habit to get into. i imagine that the reason why parts of the NHS are taking up BLW with vigour is that it cuts that behaviour out of the picture entirely.

does it mean that all people who feed their children with purees are force feeding? of course it doesn't. stop taking things so personally, it's really not about you. why the need to defend yourself against something you have never done and never actually been accused of doing?

culturevulture, i think that poster later explained herself in more detail and more moderately. plus, one poster does not 'posters' make, especially on a thread with such an argumentative OP.

chocablock - calling blw emotive language such as a 'stupid idea' will naturally cause those mums who've opted for this to get defensive. your original post makes me feel defensive. as always, food is such an emotive topic, that to call an idea i researched thoroughly and then followed as 'stupid' does rile me.

i also don't agree it is a 'craze'. maybe read the book, investigate it more - about choking versus gagging, not getting enough food (tbh, they only really need milk as the main source of nutrients until they are one anyway), before writing it down as a 'stupid idea'.

i didn't say spoon feeding wasn't enjoyable. i also don't think spoon feeding = force feeding (although i have watched some babies being spoon fed against their will, which was very uncomfortable viewing, that isn't, i feel the majority).

live and let live. keep going with your spoon feeding if that is what makes you happy. but try to understand why others choose a different way, without calling it 'stupid'.

and choca, you really must give up on the idea that BLW 'hasn't been researched properly'. it has, using a MASSIVE cohort, and it continues to be.

i'd like to see some research into puree, personally. but it doesn't exist.

Choka! If you'd read what the medieval pap was, I think you'd find it pretty vile too - flour cooked in water, basically. No-one has equated that with purees, and no-one has suggested that BLW is The Only Way to feed a baby; it's just really nice to have another option.

It also seems as if you can't win - either people think BLW has been done forever, and people who don't realise this (because their HVs/baby books/mothers suggest/insist on puree or because Annabel Karmel has filled the bookshelves in their local shop) are stupid OR it's the latest craze and therefore faddy and stupid. It DOESN'T MATTER when people started doing it - people in the Middle Ages did some batshit crazy stuff so it's as well we don't do everything they did, and if something that you and your friends and family hadn't come across before happens to work for your giant spoon-refuser baby (who's now a giant 5yo and fit as a fiddle) then That's Good.

And the liking purees thing was really just a conversation Aitch and I had which made us think that our own personal preferences may have made BLW appealing to us - just as exotic likes mashed banana and so may like puree-feeding as it's visually and texturally appealling to her. Why is this so hard to accept?

And many people doing BLW will have faced a fair amount of criticism from family etc who think it's odd, so for every crazed evangelist for BLW, there's one for puree, but we, as people, tend to see more clearly what appears to be a criticism of what we do ourselves.

There is loads of research that has been carried out into feeding babies not via BLW, lots of links on the WHO website. The WHO also state that exclusive breast milk is only suitable for the first six months, not the first year.

What's your second sentence got to do with BLW, ilove?

I did let my third eat stuff herself with her hands (easy when rushing around after other kids) but I also spooned in stuff when I was in a hurry/wanted no mess. Don't most parents do this?

From WHO website:

Complementary feeding

Around the age of six months, an infant's need for energy and nutrients starts to exceed what is provided by breast milk and complementary foods are necessary to meet those needs. At about six months of age, an infant is also developmentally ready for other foods. If complementary foods are not introduced when a child has reached six months, or if they are given inappropriately, an infant's growth may falter. Guiding principles for appropriate complementary feeding are:

continue frequent, on demand breastfeeding until two years old or beyond;
practise responsive feeding (e.g. feed infants directly and assist older children. Feed slowly and patiently, encourage them to eat but do not force them, talk to the child and maintain eye contact);
practise good hygiene and proper food handling;
start at six months with small amounts of foods and increase gradually as the child gets older;
gradually increase food consistency and variety;
increase the number of times that the child is fed, 2-3 meals per day for infants 6-8 months of age, and 3-4 meals per day for infants 9-23 months of age, with 1-2 additional snacks as required;
feed a variety of nutrient rich foods;
use fortified complementary foods or vitamin-mineral supplements, as needed; and
increase fluid intake during illness, including more breastfeeding, and offer soft, favourite foods.

Nothing here I can see precludes either puree or BLW. Can we just shake on it? In general people doing BLW do not start with steak, but with soft roasted veg, and very ripe fruit, etc. Some may do stuff like start with steak, just like some people feed purees in a bad way - trying to force-feed, etc. Some people get things wrong. This is not news, surely.

oops - forgot the "feed infants directly" bit. Well, I'd like them to have tried with either of mine. Thing is, if the child wants to feed itself and is capable of it, I can't see the WHO issuing guidelines saying you mustn't.

I think it's the labels that irk some people. DS was just 'weaned'. His first food was a banana that I gave him to suck, he then had a mixture of finger foods and mashed up stuff. I don't ever remember making purees

I never pureed. Just mashed a bit. There were lumps. God it seems so long ago and uninteresting now

habbibu - i think iloves comment is in relation to what i said about milk being main source of nutrients until 1 year old. my understanding (based on excessive mnet use and googling other sites, but i put my hands up and say i am not an expert) is that 'food is for fun until they are 1'. that 6 - 12 months is the transitional period to solids and that it doesn't really matter nutritionally wise if they don't solids straight away at 6 months. i was not concerned that ds2 wasn't eating much until 8 or 9 months old. maybe i am wrong, but i'm sure as long as they're taking in adequate breast / formula milk, we over stress they should be on lots of solids as soon as they hit 6 months.

Thought Aitch would be on here. Well I think she knows my opinions on BLW already. I think it's a fad. Like most of these so-called 'natural' parenting methods.

When my ds was 2 years old he was eating a packet of Milky Stars, he suddenly stopped eating them and just sort of flopped onto the floor. I didn't know what was happening, my first thought was that he had fallen over but when I went to pick him up he appeared very limp. I don't know why as I didn't think he was chocking, but my instinct was to slap him on the back. He started to come round then but for the rest of the day he was very lethargic and just wanted to go to sleep. I took him to the doctors who told me that ds had most probably chocked on one of the Milky Stars and if I hadn't slapped his back he wouldn't now be here (I posted this on Mumsnet at the time). It shocked me because I always thought that choking was more obvious, with the usual gagging sounds and reflexes that you associate with it, but the doctor explained that this is not always the case and sometimes it just cuts off your air supply so that, with a child, s/he can just collapse.

That is one reason why I will not advocate BLW, but then I wouldn't discourage it either. I just find it a bit like everything else to do with parenting - everyone thinks that their way is best and those who do it a different way are doing it wrong. So those who puree food are wasting their time and may even be force feeding their babies. I don't know why we can't just accept each other's choices, but apparently that's not the way it works.

I used to spoon feed mine until they turned their heads away. I never tried to push in 'just one more' and most other mothers I know don't do that either.

I see a baby a bit like a grown-up without false teeth. My dad never wears his and if he goes out for a meal, chomping with his gums is hard work for him and he often chooses food like mash which he can eat with ease. I don't like the thought of giving a baby who has no or few teeth, food with lumps in. I like to start them off gradually with a variety of tastes that are mashed up to make it easier for them to eat. Then as they start to teeth, the odd carrot stick or piece of toast. But BLW is most definitely not something I would do as it restricts you (I can't imagine trying it in a restaurant), it makes a mess and I can see no real advantage to the baby. I doubt that in 15 years time you will see a marked difference in those babies who have gone through BLW and those who were fed purees.

Both are just as good and I see no reason why one cannot be combined with the other. But it can't of course, because BLW is actually pretty strict and if you use a spoon then you are not following BLW.

There seems to be no middle ground and that's another reason I don't like it. There are no compromises.

I don't know everything there is to know about BLW but I do feel in the future it may be looked back on as a bit of a fad - if it's in the strict sense of never giving them a spoon of anything. Is it the Taoists who advocate the middle way - or is that Buddhist philosophy ?
Either way I think the wisdom is more in the middle here than with either of the extremes.

your dad doesn't have a tooth in his head, Rhubarb. a 6 month old baby has an entire set in his hard little gums, as anyone who has breastfed can attest to.

and there is loads of middle ground, it's just that you don't want to hear it, because of an experience with your two-year-old traditionally-weaned child. really, it takes some doing to make that into an argument against BLW...

like i say, this all feels very five years ago. although we were shorter on medieval literacy specialists back then.

I completely agree with the OP and think BLW sounds bonkers. I can imagine quite a few babies are going hungry because they don't have the skills at such a young age to get the food into their mouths. I couldn't sit and watch any of my children gag?!

I have recently had DC3 and when he is six months old will be mashing his food and later on giving him some finger foods along side it so he can explore textures, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Also how mashing some food would make a baby fussy is beyond me

It's not bonkers and can people accept that some babies just don't want to be spoonfed? My DD is extremely stubborn and I can't get even one weaning spoonful into her at 6mo without tricking her to open her mouth. She also pokes that spoonful out with her tongue. It's the same with calpol. She wouldn't let me near her with the syringe. She'll only take calpol/nurofen if I give her the syringe, and then quickly push the content in when it's in her mouth.

And at 6mo, my DD is completely capabable of putting the following into her mouth and swallowing - toast, pancakes, burger patties, puff pastries, brocolli florets, chips, muffins .. and a lot more. She surprised us by how well she handle the food from the pizza hut salad bar!

DD is at hospital atm and DH suggested today to the consultant about trying her a bottle since she's getting better. The consultant looked scared and told him we'll wait for mummy to bf her. She's developed quite a reputation of not tolerating things in the hospital lol. Nurses have described her variously as fractious, feisty and easily crossed. She fight for hours to pull off the gas mask on admission until they gave up and took it off.

Aitch, my dd was one year old before she got her first tooth.

And actually it's not that I don't want to hear it - I already have. I remember threads about this very subject some years back and the threads all said that you could not combine BLW with spoon feeding because that would not be pure BLW.

I think most of us who traditionally weaned did combine the two, we mashed food and fed with a spoon and we also gave them peas/crackers/veg sticks to eat with their hands.

Also, I wonder why you needed to highlight that sentence in bold? Was there the tiniest implication that if ds had been BLW that he would not have choked on a milky star? I was illustrating how even a child with teeth can choke on something very soft and if I had not been in the room with him, or my attention had been elsewhere, he may have collapsed without my knowing. I know that people who practise BLW are there with their children, but do they know what to do in case of choking? This is the main reason I don't like it, because of the potential of a lump becoming stuck in their throats.

Sure it has its advantages as they get older, to chew and gnaw on food that is not just a mush. But BLW goes further than that doesn't it? It advocates giving them a meal just like yours, and allowing them to eat with their fingers/wipe in their hair/throw on the floor/smear over their face. A baby who struggles with hand/eye co-ordination surely gets more out of being fed with a spoon that a baby who is struggling to get the food into their mouths?

Anyway, like I said, I just don't see the huge advantages to it and I doubt that there will be any noticeable difference in babies who have been BLW and spoon-fed. They all seem to get along just fine no matter how many new ways we find of weaning them. My neighbour combines the two, puree with a spoon and BLW when she has time. Most people find their own middle ground.

lilham - all babies are different and if yours won't take a spoon then by all means let her use her fingers.

My argument is that BLW is more than simply not using a spoon, it's also anti-purees and in order to follow it seriously, you cannot swap and change, you must adhere to the no-spoon, no-puree rules.

It may well work for some but will not suit others. So why not let mums figure it out for themselves?

you do make me laugh, rhubarb...

Ah the same old Aitch, loving those patronising put downs mate!
Course my experiences are laughing matters, so help yourself!