Fined for No ticket

[user1497787065]

I will start this by saying we live in the south west and the majority of stations we use have no ticket machines and some are request stops so we wave our arm for the train to stop. I know from a recent thread some of you didn't think these existed but they do.

So, this morning my DD and a friend landed at Stansted and got on a train to I think Liverpool Street and when asked for their tickets said they needed to buy them. They were then fined for boarding without a ticket and the journey including fine cost them £71. Is this usual? Should they have had a ticket before boarding? Obviously not the case where we live and they both had the means to purchase a ticket so were not trying to avoid paying. Any hope of a refund if she disputes it?

Any help or opinion appreciated.

Yes they should have had a ticket before boarding and there are signs and announcements everywhere at the airport so I highly doubt they could get out of it.

I think the rule is "but a ticket at the first available opportunity"
So, at home, buying off the ticket collector is the first opportunity.
But, at Stanstead, there will have been ticket machines/manned desks, so they should have bought before bording.
Sorry. Expensive lesson to learn.

All train tickets in the UK can be purchased online, so I don't think their "excuse" will stand up, tbh. They could have checked in advance and planned ahead for this scenario.

How did they even get to the platform and onto the train without going through a ticket barrier? Stansted Airport is usually manned.

I live near a rural train station with no ticket machine and i always purchase my ticket on line now. Stops this situation happening.

I'm amazed they managed to get on the train at Stansted without a ticket or swiping card as there are barriers. If the barriers were open for some reason (sometimes they do that for overcrowding) they would still have been expected to swipe their cards but maybe they could argue that they didn't know?

If they forded their way through the barriers then obviously they were deliberately trying to avoid paying - which would have been foolish as all London stations like Liverpool at have ticket machines at the other end.

If the barriers were open at Stansted they could try and phone up and argue that as they will have a record of when/why they were open. I think it's pretty clear in big cities that you need to pay in advance of boarding as there are barriers.

Thank you for your responses. Apparently the barriers were open enabling them to just board the train.
Will definitely dispute the fine but do not have high hopes.

Expensive lesson learnt. For me too as I would
always prefer to buy a ticket from a person. Where there is a ticket machine at one station near us it is in a sunny spot so hard to read and also dependent on having glasses with me and I haven't got to grips with online tickets.

The Stansted Express website is clear:

Please buy a ticket before you travel, otherwise you may be liable to pay a Penalty Fare of £100, plus the price of the full single fare applicable for your journey. However, if it is paid within 21 days, the Penalty Fare is reduced to £50 plus the price of the single fare applicable.

I don't think there's any point challenging the fine tbh.

Local station here (SE) is unmanned. You can buy a ticket on the train IF the machine is out of order (happens boringly often) and they can even print prepaid tickets on the train (which was fab). At Stansted, which has a billion machines, not a leg to stand on, I’m afraid.

It’s an airport, a transport hub, I’m amazed that anyone would think they didn’t need to buy a ticket first, whatever set up they’re used to in small towns, unless they’ve never travelled before. Yes the barriers are open a lot especially quieter times when no one is around to man them. However there are desks in the terminal, a load of ticket machines and signs literally as you walk off the plane to luggage collection advertising tickets, how much they cost and where to purchase them. There are also signs up everywhere reminding you about the penalty of not having a ticket.

Will definitely dispute the fine but do not have high hopes.

On what basis would you dispute it?

What is there to dispute?

To be exact, only a court can issue a 'fine'. It sounds like what you were asked to pay was a 'Penalty Fare'. On the Stansted Express to London this would be £100, plus the price of the full single fare for the journey. If it is paid within 21 days, the Penalty Fare is reduced to £50 plus the price of the single fare. It sounds like the DD and friend had to pay £50 + £21 for the ticket.

It is an offence to board a train without already having a valid ticket for the journey, if facilities to buy a ticket were available at the boarding station. This applies to boarding a train and buying a ticket on a phone after the train has left the station you started from. This is called 'Paying when challenged'. If a railway chose to go down this route, this could lead to a Magistrate's Court summons, which might be avoided if an offer to settle out of court was offered. This would be quite a lot more than a Penalty Fare.

A Penalty Fare is charged when the railway employee believes that a genuine mistake was made, with no intent to avoid the fare. You can appeal a Penalty Fare for up to 21 days after it was issued, but I would say this would very likely fail as facilities would definitely been available before boarding.

It took me 4 months and multiple appeals to get my penalty fare revoked - and I actually had a ticket!!!
You're on a hiding to nothing.

i regularly travel by train and there are signs up, voice announcements and also on the screens on the platform stating that tickets need to purchased before getting on the train. The barriers could have been up for a number of different reasons but that does not mean a ticket is not required. Sounds like they were pushing their luck for a free journey.

There are actually tickets machines before you even go through passport control so there can't be any excuse. The barriers are often open at busy times to allow the flow of passengers and pretty much every young person I know always gets their tickets online direct to their phone. I suspect they saw the barrier open and thought they may get away with a freebie especially with all the signs about not travelling without a ticket at Stansted.

Just pay it , there are no grounds to dispute it

@user1497787065

they both had the means to purchase a ticket so were not trying to avoid paying.

Unfortunately many people who 'have the means' to purchase a ticket choose not to, to 'wing it' in other words. There is a big problem with students and young people giving each other tips on how to 'bunk' fares either completely or by lying about where they boarded. It sounds like in this case they were treated, probably rightly, as having made an honest mistake. It might have been a lot worse if they were challenged at the exit barriers at Liverpool Street

How in the name of God did they miss the bank of ticket machines and the row of at least 5 windows?

They were getting a train into the capital city from a big airport, not travelling from Little Plodding in the Puddles to Nether End by the Dunes.

On what basis are you going to dispute it- I mean, what are you actually going to say?

You haven’t “got to grips” with online tickets? If you can post on mumsnet you can get to grips with online tickets.

Sorry OP - I agree with PPs - your DD is old enough to travel overseas but not to realise she needs to buy a train ticket at a major station? How did they get the to airport originally?
I doubt she walked on to the airplane & expected to pay onboard so why on the train?
& yes I live in the SW too & have stations like you describe locally but everyone knows you can buy tickets in advance. Your DD is surely more tech savvy than you?

Certain stations are penalty fare stations and it’s clearly labelled at the station if they are and usually lots of regular announcements too reminding passengers they must buy a ticket before boarding.

Should add I also live in the south west where there are request stops and I buy my ticket on the train. But it’s obvious to me which stations I need to buy a ticket to travel before boarding the train.

In answer to how they got to Stansted originally they were driven there as there was a train strike!