How can Train Travel be made better for families with young children

[jttf]

Hi,

I've got a meeting arranged with some important people at LNER and GWR about how to make train travel better for parents.

Here are some of our suggestions so far:

1. Assisted boarding for those travelling with very young children.
2. Being able to book the exact seat (i.e. table/near toilet etc).
3. Dedicated pram space (that can be booked in advance)
4. Dedicated seats for mums breastfeeding
5. Level boarding

Please let me know if you have any more thoughts,

JTTF

Sleep pods for naps.

@Mumof1andacat

Not just seats for breastfeeding mums. A bottle feeding mum needs a seat too to feed the bady

I don't see why either of these are necessary. It is totally reasonable to be able to ask for a seat if you have a small baby in arms in any case. Otherwise it's just taking up space for something that is relatively rarely needed. Similarly with pram space on most trains.

Honestly I think this is all a bit of window dressing when what they really need are the basics that would help many less able people also:

• Lifts as standard
• Step free access to at least some coaches on all trains
• Toilets that work, and at least one big enough for parent/child or disabled person
• Not just booking a specific table but having that honoured. I've booked a table before on GWR with my 2 DCs and a baby, and then showed up to find they'd put my 2 and 5 year old in the row behind me, and the rest of the seats around were taken. I ended up with them diagonally across the aisle for a 3 hour trip and it was a total pain.

@nembrotha

In Norway they have family train cars on the long distance trains.

I like that idea. I had to go on a train recently, long journey, and I dont know whether I am getting older, or whether I havent been on a train for a while, but on a fairly near empty train carriage, kids um yelling, was not very pleasant.

One carriage with compartments in each train. A family can be together, not be silent, and not upset others. I say one carriage as there will be those who find it a bit claustrophobic or would be worried it would be difficult if someone is annoying or worse.

Another vote for family carriages - used these in Scandinavia, and they worked really well.

GWR used to do activity packs you could collect from the buffet. My kids loved those.
Child friendly sandwiches at the buffet eg just cheese not cheese and sundried tomato and fancy chutney. We used to take our own but if you are travelling home, it's not always possible to do this. We once had a travelling chef on GWR that made my lads beans on toast.

Toilets that are clean, not miles away and are big enough for parent and child.

Somewhere to change a nappy, squatting on the floor of a train toilet with your toddler across your lap on a moving train is not at all convenient.

Agree with previous post about honouring seat reservations. One and only time we have travelled by train as a family, almost as an experiment to see how we all managed - DH and I and 2 DCs with non visible disabilities, (and before sunflower lanyards were really a thing).

Booked table seats each way, outbound morning journey fine but no reservation cards on the afternoon return and train crowded. DH and DC1 ended up other end of carriage from where I managed to find one spare seat and had them 5 year old DC2 on my lap for the journey which was over an hour which wasn't comfortable for either of us, and the children were a bit startled by the behaviour of a group of spirited people between us returning from an afternoons drinking. DC2 has continence issues and we would have had to get past loads of people in a hurry to reach the loos if required, and possibly lost our seats. I seldom travel by train alone either so it's entirely possible this is just a standard experience, but it wasn't one I was in any hurry to repeat, particularly with children with additional needs (and while carrying bags and coats).

Even though we used a family railcard it would have been cheaper and far more convenient to take the car, which is why we've not bothered to take the train anywhere again.

Cheaper fares. It's less expensive to get in the car with young kids. Or on one's own much of the time. More extensive time table. Again, none of this will happen.

Cleaner, bigger toilets.

But the most important thing is cost. It needs to be cheaper to take the train than it is to drive, but when there’s more than one person travelling, it is pretty much always cheaper to drive even in London where you have to factor in congestion charges and parking.

@NailsNeedDoing

Cleaner, bigger toilets.

But the most important thing is cost. It needs to be cheaper to take the train than it is to drive, but when there’s more than one person travelling, it is pretty much always cheaper to drive even in London where you have to factor in congestion charges and parking.

Even with just one person, it's bloody ridiculous and it takes far too much time, particularly if it's after 7pm or a Sunday.

@Ilovemaisie

Pram space definitely (not relying on the hope that the wheelchair space is free). Actual proper size luggage space - not one tiny shelf area or just the overhead ones.

This.

Toilets need to be cleaned and checked on long journeys! Bleach is needed.

You need to be able to book a non quiet coach. When I've booked before I've ended up being allocated a seat in the quiet coach even though I didn't request it. You can request quiet but if you don't request it assumes both quiet and normal are fine.

Getting on the train is a nightmare if there are big gaps, especially when there's a step up as well. Toddlers can't step over them (also mine was always too scared) and it's hard to help if you are pushing a pram one handed up a step! There is often not enough space for a pram or pushchair on board and no info about where to board to find the pram and wheelchair space. This needs to be doable without assistance as often there is no time to find a guard if making a connection. The pram space also needs to be near seats, because you can't leave a buggy with valuables (or a sleeping baby!) in it to go and sit elsewhere in the train with your toddler, due to the risk something gets stolen or it falls over etc.

Toilets at stations to be accessible and not paid for. Or at the very least, free entry for children like at European stations (e.g. Small child sized free door next to the pay door)

I don't personally see a need for a special breastfeeding friendly chair? I would just feed in a normal chair. This seems like a gimmicky waste of time when toilets, space and accessibility are all the more pressing problems.

Family car so you don't need to feel like your kids should be silent the whole way.

Family carriages would be great for long journeys, or at least be able to book the non-quiet coach.
Being able to book a seat for a token fee for an under-5 would be great.

Otherwise the same as everyone else - a functioning reservation system, clean functioning toilets, ability to use any route when there are delays...

Also allow staff to use their brains - once at KX we had booked cheap first class seats, as had many other people. Guard realised and arranged things so people with children were in one first class carriage and those without in another, leading to much happier journeys for both.

This might be a bit controversial but it would be amazing if you could reserve seats for any under fives travelling for free.
The biggest frustration I had travelling with two under the age of five is that I would only be able to reserve a seat for myself.
This was fine if the train wasn't crowded. But often all the surrounding seats would be taken, making my reserved seat useless.
So then we would all have to troop to the unreserved carriage with all our stuff.
Or sit on the floor between carriages, getting in everyone's way.
I get that the kids were for travelling for free and not entitled to a seat. But perhaps there could be a middle ground. Maybe pay a smaller fee for a reservation without a ticket?

This.

Plus the cost of getting the train is hideously expensive to begin with. Multiple tickets for a family can cost well over £200 travelling economy class from London to Bath with high levels of overcrowding. It's cheaper and faster to drive. I appreciate the train is better for the environment but families simply can't afford to the train especially with all the engineering works and replacement bus services. Also standing at the platform for long periods of time with young children that are cold and tired is no fun. It is poor value.

With coronavirus Lner are currently offering at seat drinks/food service throughout the train, which I can’t quite wrap my head around logistically but is a godsend for travelling with young kids. Would be great if they would keep this post pandemic for any families/individuals who would find a trip to the buffet car hard to manage.

Space - we have always booked and paid for seats for our under 5s, we travel with a friends & family railcard and tbh travelling with kids - with a railcard - makes the adult tickets so much cheaper that it works out great even booking seats for children who shouldn’t have to pay. We only ever do 4hour+ journeys (which nearly always tip into 6 hours, I am cursed) and there’s no way I’m risking there being a spare seat - there never is!

So maybe, would be good to have the option of reserving the 4th seat at a table (after all, who wants the 4th seat if you’re going to be crammed in with toddlers), if you’ve paid for the other 3.

Otherwise - there is already the facility to choose your seats, so we do that anyway.

If something goes wrong - eg, you make your passengers unexpectedly change trains or the train has a fault and everyone needs to get off. Having an awareness that this will be absolute hell for families with young kids and offering particular assistance in these circumstances - would be much appreciated.

I used to get very anxious about availability of pram space, particularly when we needed it to stay up with a sleeping baby, or to go and use it half way through a journey for its nap - actual drop down seats in vestibules (there aren’t always, sometimes just a strange ledge) for parents with sleeping kids would be great, or it’s stand the whole way.

All of those things are necessary for other people too (except why does a breastfeeding mum need a specific seat? I managed fine on aircraft with much narrower seats!) I think bookable pram spaces are a fine concept but they would need to be paid for, are parents willing, don't see why other customers should fund it. I found trains better once they were past the pushchair stage

@motogogo

All of those things are necessary for other people too (except why does a breastfeeding mum need a specific seat? I managed fine on aircraft with much narrower seats!) I think bookable pram spaces are a fine concept but they would need to be paid for, are parents willing, don't see why other customers should fund it. I found trains better once they were past the pushchair stage

Yep, but you know, other people don't count as much. Disabled people, for example.

I used to travel long distance with GWR, with and without DC, several times a months.

GWR used to have family carriages. I think we managed to get a seat in it once. They were a waste of time because the booking system would randomly assign bookings to the family carriage who weren't families. The same with the quiet carriage. You couldn't book NOT to be in the quiet carriage, only request a seat in it, which isn't great if you are travelling with a toddler and baby only to find you are next someone trying to work or sleep (and vice versa, I've been both). Family carriages and a better booking system that allows you to choose your seat would be good, not just state a preference, and/or allows you to state what you don't want.

The free kids activity packs were great. I would have happily paid for them.

More pram and wheelchair spaces would be great.

Buffet cars are so much better than the refreshment trolley, it's a nightmare waiting for it to come round. I also miss the Travelling Chef, so nice to be able to get real food that hasn't been reheated in a microwave. It never seemed to be advertised or announced on the train, the menus were often hidden, so I'm not surprised people didn't use it.

Please don't get rid of the Pullman dining service. Again, it only seems to be regulars who know about the amazing dining car. Make it bookable for everyone (not just first class), possibly even booking menu choices in advance to make it more cost effective. I'm sure more people would use it. Now it is either empty or so busy it's impossible to get a table, so it loses money either way.

Bookable real food, whether it's in a dining car or at your seat, would be great. We always tried to book a train with a Travelling Chef or the Pullman breakfast service when the DC were young. It broke up the journey and turned it into an event rather than just getting from A to B that helped justify the cost of the train over driving.

Boarding assistance would really help - I did a lot of long distance train journeys on my own with DD as a baby/toddler and it was SO difficult actually getting on the train! The commuter trains are fine, but the long distance ones with narrow doorways are so difficult!

Option to put pram/buggy in guards van when going long distance otherwise it's a nightmare finding somewhere to store it folded up. Mine nearly fell out of overhead rack onto my head! More availability of accessible spaces - when DD still napped I'd put her in pushchair napping in the wheelchair space, as long as no one else needed it, but it was always really uncertain whether this would be available.

Bigger loos so you can actually go in there with a child.

Trolley service is so much easier than manoevring several carriages down to buffet. LNER did a little activity book/colouring book with stickers a couple of years ago in the summer holiday which was great! A few kid friendly food/drink items available - cartons of juice, plain sandwiches etc also helpful.

Don't see any need for different seats - I've BF and bottle fed in normal train seats and it's fine.

@motogogo

All of those things are necessary for other people too (except why does a breastfeeding mum need a specific seat? I managed fine on aircraft with much narrower seats!) I think bookable pram spaces are a fine concept but they would need to be paid for, are parents willing, don't see why other customers should fund it. I found trains better once they were past the pushchair stage

I agree it needs to be paid for. It should be possible without losing any seats though. A bit like the wheelchair seat, you could have a set of 4 seats with a half table for just the 2 window seats at the end of the carriage and a folding seat against the wall.

Most stations no longer charge for toilets. Certainly at all Network Rail operated ones they are free now.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2019/04/toilet-charges-scrapped-at-major-train-stations-/amp/

Guards vans are pretty much a thing of the past too.