Love to know what mum's think of the Scottish Baby Box poem

[toomuchpink]

Love to know what mum's - especially those in Scotland - think of this poem. It is going into the Scottish Government's new baby box of freebies for parents of newborns.

Tempted to ask for alternative suggestions which truly capture the experience of having a baby. But perhaps for some people this is what it is like?

Jackie Kay
Welcome Wee One

O ma darlin wee one
At last you are here in the wurld
And wi’ aa your wisdom
Your een bricht as the stars,
You've filled this hoose with licht,
Yer trusty wee haun, your globe o' a heid,
My cherished yin, my hert's ain!

O my darlin wee one
The hale wurld welcomes ye:
The mune glowes; the hearth wairms.
Let your life hae luck, health, charm,
Ye are my bonny blessed bairn,
My small miraculous gift.
I never kent luve like this.

Secondly

Thirdly, obvs.

1. No-one is Scotland speaks that language. Scots is a mish-mash of dialects brought together under one umbrella. I'm not interested in the SNP's attempt at politicised cultural representation of Scotlant in the context of a baby box and a few freebies.

1. I can get the gist of a poem written in most UK dialects. And?

1. Yes, I am 'othering' that language - because other than a tiny minority, no-one speaks the language as that poem presents it. Scottish people use the Scots words, dialects and english.

1. Children beaten for speaking Scots? You mean, some teachers beat children for using dialect in the classroom? Yes, probably - some teachers used to beat children for all sorts of reasons, but we don't tolerate beating for any reason now. The negativity towards it is not a result of that though - it's a reaction to the pointless waste of money and the mawkish, pointless nonsense written in a language which is not spoken by the majority.

Cross posts. I notice you've only answered one of my questions. Yes, you absolutely can argue that a policy is wrong on the basis that more is required.

Yes, God forbid we expose 'the majority' to the pointless dribblings of the minority, eh?

You are ignoring all kinds of historical, cultural and political realities when you rail against cultural products in this way, and dismiss the impacts and legacy of state-sponsored cultural oppression.

But I don't suppose we will come to agree, so I'll leave it at that. All the best.

God forbid we expose 'the majority' to the pointless dribblings of the minority, eh?

Your words, not mine.

You are ignoring all kinds of historical, cultural and political realities when you rail against cultural products in this way, and dismiss the impacts and legacy of state-sponsored cultural oppression

Political realities? Cultural products? And here was me thinking it was just a box of free baby goods

All the best to you too.

Wrt the actual use of the box, I know people who put their newborns in a separate room from day 1 because the cot wouldn't fit in their bedroom due to size restrictions. The baby box, with mattress and sheets provided, means they don't have to rejig their rooms or houses to follow SIDS guidelines.

I am amazed at the outrage tbh. It's not difficult to see what benefits can be made with the box.

And wrt using Scots language, why not use it?

I said before but I love the poem. I've even sometimes made comment on my babies having big balls.for heads. It's a nice thing, the poem. I'm just surprised at the level of nit picking and annoyance for the sake of annoyance in some responses.

But Scots is only the dialect of part of Scotland.

And while it could also be offered in Gaelic, more people are now born to Polish speaking mothers, than Gaelic ones.

The common language is English. And no amount of poetry can change the way people were treated in the past. My uncle was beaten for being left handed. Schools, and parents,were cruel, as were institutions.

gin - supermarkets give away free cardboard boxes, always have done - no need for anyone to wait for the Govt to provide one if they're that worried about rejigging their rooms or houses. Alternatively, they could use a drawer as they used to do in days gone by.

no-one speaks the language as that poem presents it. It is a poem and therefore the language is used as an artistic medium.

I amna fou' sae muckle as tired - deid dune.
It's gey and hard wark coupin' gless for gless
Wi' Cruivie and Gilsanquhar and the like,
And I'm no' juist as bauld as aince I wes.

Did Hugh MacDiarmid speak like this every day? I doubt it.
Also the idea that a Sylvia Plath poem was included. Words fail me. A woman who killed herself at 30 and left her children behind.

That well known poem by Christopher Murray Grieve, the famous nationalist . I

I agree - an artistic medium, which we freely choose to read, to criticise, to like or dislike. However, this is supposed to be a box for all - and the all (or the majority of the all) speaks english. Therefore, in the spirit of universalism it would be more appropriate for the poem to be in the language of the majority. Unless of course its purpose is, in fact, to remind us all kinds of historical, cultural and political realities.

Oh - and it wasn't the pp's suggestion that the Sylvia Plath poem be included.

Most Scots code shift. You may not.

No, most Scotish speak english.

But dont most scots speak the english language mashed with scottish words which is what this poem is. Fair does i dont know anyonw who would use every single word in the poem but certainly its not gibberish or an ancient unused language. I dont know any one local to me that speaks pure english. Or am i too north to know any better 😁 people griping about the language in this poem make me feel like they want me to be ashamed of my language and how i speak. That my mishmash of english and scots is a novelty to mocked and worse suppressed at national level and im just pretending to be scottish because apparently real scottish people speak english. Yh ok then 🤔

As I said earlier "However, this is supposed to be a box for all - and the all (or the majority of the all) speaks english. Therefore, in the spirit of universalism it would be more appropriate for the poem to be in the language of the majority".

That my mishmash of english and scots is a novelty to mocked and worse suppressed at national level and im just pretending to be scottish because apparently real scottish people speak english

Your words, your interpretation, no-one else's.

The criticism of the poem on social media is mainly misogynistic and classist bullshit. But the inconsistency of not using Scots in the last line irritates me.
I appreciate the aims behind the box but I'd like to see the research that implied this would work as well in a Scottish context as it does in a Scandinavian one.

In living memory children have been beaten up at school for sounding English, so that emotive argument is redundant.

Ooft. I liked the poem. And the idea of a baby box. The reaction here is interesting and should probably be used as a guide to public policy making. Rather than using evidence and ideas from around the world to inform decision making all politicians and civil servants need to consider is how angry, upset etc will people be if we try to help people.

Scots in poetry existed in Scotland before the SNP came to power and will exist in Scotland when they return to opposition. Still, will be interesting to see when and how a Cultural Commission on reteaching the People of Scotland Proper Queens English will be formed. After all, these boxes and that poem will be brainwashing people from the moment they get it.

You'd think people might be interested in aspects of their culture and history but it seems all they want is EastEnders, Coronation Street and reality TV. Sad really.

sir chenjin you'd struggle to get a mattress to fit your average supermarket cardboard box, wouldn't you. And I don't know if John Lewis sell drawer sized mattresses either...

Sylvia Plath's struggles with mental illness in no way reduce the quality of her poem in comparison to Jacky Kay's and that is a cheap and unpleasant jibe to use against a fine poet.

Sirc. It may not be said but certainly implied. Im i totally off the mark thinking that most scots speak scots english, a blend between the two which this poem is? Sirc are you saying that the majority of scots speak formal English and that is the form you think this poem should be in. Clearly the solution is just to have two versions of the poem the current one and an english one. Still no doubt people would still complain then yhat the scottish version was unnessary.

Not really gin - there are plenty of places that cut mattress foam to size if you are struggling so much to fit a cot into your room that you need to wait for the Scottish Govt to issue you with a box and mattress.

I'll just travel back five years in time and let one set of friends know that. Thanks sir chenjin

It's a useful thing for the government to do. Box. Mattress. Bed sorted. 13 pages of ire is making my head shake of its own accord.

I think simply what people are saying is that the choice of this poem is purely for political reasons rather than reasons of it being the most fitting in any Scottish or British dialect for the purposes of the box.

There is more effort to push separatist agenda than to see the most fitting poem used. That is the type of Nationalist a all costs attitude that seeps into every little thing the SNP do. Same sort of thing you see from many Nationalist parties throughout history. I suppose the clue is in the name.

No Miss - it's your interpretation. The poem is written in Scots - it's not the same as Scottish English (or Scottish Standard English/Standard Scottish English - or just plain english).

Having the poem in english as well would have been a great idea - would have made it more accessible.