Are serial killers created by nature or nurture

[Evelphys]

Hi,

I’m writing my epq and was wondering if anyone had any ideas on whether they think serial killers were born so ; psychological aspects or whether the way they were brought up lead to them committing the crimes that they did.

I think the idea that serial killers often have high IQ's has been largely debunked hasn't it?

They are actually more likely to have a lower than average IQ (like Gary Ridgeway who had a very low IQ but happened to be very good at a couple of this - painting cars & serial killing!).

The high IQ thing I think took hold in popular culture because of Hannibal Lecture & Ted Bundy.....but one of those is fictional and the other is an outlier!

Ooh, interesting topic. A long running mystery.

Personally, I think it’s both. I think people can be born with certain traits, but it’s the nurture that dictates how those traits pan out. Like if a child is born with a higher propensity for aggression, growing up in a stable and loving household that teaches the child how to manage emotions will lead to an in control, if not slightly quick to anger, adult.

Whereas if that child is raised in a violent, unstable environment, it fosters the development of that trait.

I also think, with Ted Bundy, part of why people viewed him as intelligent was his ability to convince people he was. He had a lot of charisma and charm, which lead to some very odd people actually falling for him 🤢 Even the judge complimented him while handing down his sentence.

He was certainly intelligent, but his practiced charisma kind of blurred people’s perception of reality

I'd say nature over nurture

I'm really interested in that mass murder bit - do you mean genocides tend to take place in different countries at the same time? Do you have some examples? I know I sound terribly morbid and, well, I am.

Didn't spot that full stop at first. Thought you were listing Mrs Terry Pratchett as a psychopath 😮.

I've been tested @AnImaginaryCat I pass <eye twitches>

@SawX I mean that when something happens (Nazi Germany, Rwanda) all at once many people become mass murderers. It's a completely different type of murder to serial killers. But it's still terrifying how many people, given motive, means and opportunity descend into it. And by 'people' of course, we mean mostly men.

Ah gotcha. Yes I find that equally fascinating and terrifying. Like those studies where half of the participants electrocuted an innocent person if instructed to do so by someone in charge.

That’s an excellent analogy.

This is also a good point.

@Evelphys When you refer to “nurture “ what do you mean?

Are you defining nurture as how they were raised by their parents/primary caregivers? Are you focusing solely on their home life and immediate family?

Or are you including the wider environmental influences of extended family, surrounding community (including their experiences at school), the wider community (the culture and political climate of their country and the world around them), the influence of their internet use and the social forums they become involved in such as gaming communities?

vaguely remember a book or program that told of many killers having suffered head injuries and then became violent

I think it depends, a little bit of this mixed with this turns into a serial killer, people can have normal upbringing but something happens maybe no one realises happens and it starts something, or a terrible childhood and be a perfectly normal adult

Or be born always to do it, I don't think anyone can answer and always be 100% correct

I've worked on several forensic units as a therapist and its both. The brain structures of people with psychopathy show marked differences to typical brains - the area in control of empathy is significantly smaller, and they dont show empathic responses to upsetting pictures like the "normal" population do (plenty of studies on this). They also experience reduced fear responses. Add this to environmental abuse and you have the perfect storm for violent crime. People like this often indicate a feeling of emptiness - as if there is a void where feelings ought to be.

I recommend you read the book ‘Hunting Humans’ by Leyton. He is considered to have been one of the leading academics on this subject.

Is that true of children or just adults?

Studies on children's brains would suggest there are also significant differences in the responses of the amygdala to distress cues so yes, quite possibly. There are less studies on children than there are on adults for obvious, ethical reasons. That said, the brain has amazing neuroplasticity so protective factors such as a healthy, loving environment may well mitigate some of the more extreme effects of "nature" when growing up.

Is that true of children or just adults?

I know at one point there was a Russian (I think) attempt to work with children who were showing the early markers of these tendencies. For example harming animals. I don't know what became of that and I worry about the ethics. I mean telling a child they are in an intervention in case they go on to murder a lot of people is not going to produce good results.

And on neuroplasticity, it's fascinating. Some people's brains are more plastic so environment affects them mush more. Which is why people who say, "well I grew up in abuse and didn't do x" is meaningless. There's every chance their brain wasn't particularly plastic.

Add epigenetics and you have a very complex system which is incredibly difficult to understand. And really interesting.

I'm glad this thread popped up again because DD wants to do her school project on this and you lot are stretching my brain! I wanted to suggest to her that she does a study on her peers startle/negative stimulus test but do we really want to know that little Rashid or William is actually likely to be a psychopath? Probably best to leave that alone!

This. However it's complex because the children of Rose and Fred West have both their biological parents as killers and a dreadful upbringing yet none of them have gone on to kill anyone so neither nature or nurture can absolutely determine a person will become a killer. By the same token there are people that kill others that have biological parents who are not killers themselves and give the child a good childhood so some other reason must be responsible for them becoming killers. You need to look at psychopaths because they have no conscience and so nothing telling them it's wrong to kill. Many killers have upon analysis by psychologists shown to be psychopaths. You might need to consider what makes a psychopath?