TA working hours

[RustySwanson]

Would appreciate opinions on this - not sure if I am being too militant on working hours….

i currently work as a TA. Hours are 8.30 to 3.15. School finish time is staggered from 3pm to 3.15 across year groups. It’s always been a sticking point in that (especially if you work in an older year group) our contracted hours are until 3.15 yet it’s not actually possible to leave at that time as the children are being dismissed then you tidy the classroom/do admin etc. If you are on end of day gate duty you are there to 3.30
and then have to tidy classroom etc.

From September our school hours are extending so all year groups will finish at 3.30. We have asked what will happen to our contracted hours and were told “it’s in the budget, you will get paid until 3.30”
In reality we won’t ever get to leave at 3.30. Again dismissing children/admin. And again if you are on the gate it will be even longer. I feel our wages are so low to expect you to work longer that your contracted hours is a bit unfair. In reality you could get out 15/20 mins after the school day - so I am being too fussy about working a small amount of unpaid overtime per day ?
just to add - most TAs at my school stay for 30
mins to an hour after school most days (out of goodwill, unpaid as they are very dedicated) but to make it impossible to get out at the time you are paid until seems unfair. Is this normal practice for TAs?

When your hours are done just stop working and go home.

If people choose to work more hours they will be taken advantage of. This will then be the "expected" norm for everyone. It annoys me that so many people can't see this.

Try asking for this on a building site and see what happens. Men wouldn't consider this.

Just to add it is possible to stop work at 3:15.

If you can't get out of the car park, go to the staff room and have a cup of tea.

I think the only way around this is to either get your unions involved, or all TAs to down tools and stop working at 3.30pm. I totally agree that your wages are nowhere near enough to be doing unpaid time each day! If you all really did this, I reckon they'd find another 15 mins in the budget for each day. Why can't teachers dismiss the children and man the gate by the way?

I think a lot of goodwill is expected of TA's in schools. It's not on really but people are made to feel guilty because they're working its children.

I think teachers and TA's need to make a stand about all the extra time that they are often guilted into doing for the good of the children and school community.

Thanks for your comments.
To answer the question about end of day - the teachers do dismiss the children but with 30 children in a class the TA’s help out - also some kids need to be taken to clubs in different classrooms etc so it often is a two person job.

at least in the younger years anyway

Well, you’re your own worst enemy, just walk out at the end of your contracted hours. My friend is a TA. She does this. No pay, no more of her time. She values herself. Do the same. If others want to martyr themselves ‘for the sake of the children’ then that’s fine. Doesn’t mean you have to do the same!

Sadly if others martyr themselves, it can be difficult to stand against this.

I'm a TA in a primary school.. contracted till 3. At 3, I gather my things and go home. The latest I have signed out is 4, but that was because I was cooking something for the staff and that was my choice.
usually I am out the door by 3.05 or 3.15 if I am faffing or stop to chat to someone. There is no expectation that I should stay longer or help tidy the classroom after school. Admin gets done in the day or next day.
I love my job, but half an hour extra every day would be a hard pass for me. It sounds like extreme cheekiness or bad management. Odd they would give you a gate duty when it ends past your contracted hours.

Thanks Captainladder - that’s really useful, I’ve only worked at my current school so it’s helpful to hear experiences from TAs at other schools.

In all fairness, I've only worked as a TA at my current school too..... and this is my first TA role.
Being expected to stay later wouldn't work for me anyway as there are days I absolutely have to be out the door as close to 3 as possible as I have to pick up my son from a different school half an hour away (which finishes at 3 too.... so he's already had to hang around for half an hour or so for me to get there!)
Half an hour a day unpaid is 2.5 hours extra a week..... that's at least a day a month they are getting free from you.
At our school the head does the gate in the morning and deputy and head do the gate every afternoon.

Our TAs definitely don't do things like tidy classrooms at the end of the day. As a teacher I might do a quick sweep round but most things the children should have sorted anyway. It's definitely on me to our away resources etc. I also dismiss my own class. I don't see how you can be on 'gate duty' if you finish at 3.15 if that's also when children leave. That is directly asking you to stay over your hours as the first children won't go through the gate til 3.16. My ASC children have to wait til everyone else has been collected then I take them to ASC. My daughter is collected by ASC staff at her school. You all need to put your feet down and get changes put in place for next year. TAs are almost impossible to recruit now - you're in a strong position!

I'm a qualified teacher but currently working as a HLTA. My paid hours are 8.30 - 3.30 but in reality I am always there by 8.20 latest and very earliest I leave is 3.40.
My sons (secondary) have to wait at least half hour after school until I can collect them.

@Hellodarknessmyfriend - why do you put unpaid labour for your school above your own children? There is no way I would ever do this! Maybe if I didn’t have other responsibilities but I would not compromise my own children’s lives to do free labour for an uncaring employer who was blatantly taking the piss.

@AloeVerity Well the children in my school don't leave until 3.30pm so how do you suggest I leave before then?
My own children all finish school (20 mins drive from where I work) at 3.30pm.
As for start times, they are also the same.
So how also could I get my own kids in to school before work?
What do you think teachers do regarding their own children?

HELP A MOM OUT!
I just got an offer for a Send TA role i really was looking forward to!
I accepted the offer but have not signed anything yet!
Now this is a high school and its literally 3 min away walking from my son school.
The role is adverted as a 32 h role- and finish time is 3:30!
my son finishes 3:10--
I do not have the means to pay someone to pick him up instead and 0 family support-

What do i do? Is it anyway i can negotiate this? I really do not want to miss this opportunity!

Thank you

@Evaala Is there an after-school club your son could go to?
Also, what time do you start and does this fit in?

The school he goes to have a long waiting list for after school club. And that is why I am panicking.
both me and my son start at 8:30-- this is manageable given the fact that its just 2min away i guess but the finish time is a little trickey!

@Evaala Totally understand. I was a HLTA for a good number of years and my hours were 8.30 - 3.30 and kids at different school. Not always the own child-friendly hours people assume the job is. The issue is that these are often the times you are most needed as a TA, especially regarding end of the day when kids are getting ready to leave.

Exactly that was my main concern because i will be needed at these times.. not sure what to do but did sent an enail trying to see how or what can arrange hopefully they would be understanding

At my school the management is super supportive and would probably work around this (even if temporary till your son had a place at ASC). At our school we regularly have children collected 15 - 20 mins after their end of day. They sit in the hall in front of the office from 10 mins after the day ends. Could you speak to both schools and find a way through?
or is there a parent you would trust Whois walking past your school and could bring him to you?

@Captainladder Who supervises these children who are still around after school? This shouldn't be permitted on a daily basis - only for emergencies.

This happens in my school, but my own children are at another school and I leave on the dot to collect them. I work probably half an hour less a day than other TAs, but get paid the same. I'm sure it pisses some people off that I just walk out but I have to, because as you know our wages are so low that paying for after school club would cost more than I'd earn in that half hour. I've never run this by anyone, I just put my coat on and go and I park around the corner so I dont have to get out of the car park. Anyone else could do this, they just don't have an "excuse". You shouldn't need an excuse to turn down unpaid overtime!

@Sprookjesbos I see your point. As an ex-teacher I wonder what would happen if everyone in school did this - including teachers and admin - it would be brilliant! What would happen to the kids always late to be collected after school, for example?

Every TA in my school does this and in fact a lot aren't even contracted for the last 15 minutes of the day. Teachers just have to manage. My ASC children wait for everyone to be dismissed then I take them along to where they need to be. If children are late to be collected, it's up to teachers to sort out - which is fine as we are salaried whereas TAs should only be working the hours they are actually being paid for. I find it really strange to look back ten years to a previous school where TAs did all sorts of extra hours, including discos and clubs, for no additional pay. I'd not be surprised if it took them under minimum wage. Where I work now, that just wouldn't happen.

Sorry @Hellodarknessmyfriend I missed this reply.

Yes like @Jagrap says the difference is that teachers are salaried, and contacted to work any hours necessary to complete the duties they have to complete, whereas support staff are paid by the hour.
In my school we aren't even paid for lunch and that does annoy me as I'm a specialist send ta and spend a lot of my lunch (sometimes all!) dealing with children.

I have QTS and used to be a class teacher, worked all the hours I needed to. I massively respect the teachers at my school and understand how all consuming the job is - I've done it! But I don't feel bad leaving tasks to them at the end of the day if I have to. I'm paid peanuts in comparison now and paid by the hour. I made the change because I couldn't balance parenting with a job that demanded so much of me, particularly with a husband that works away and an autistic child. You have to do what suits your own circumstances. I understood this myself as a young teacher and never begrudged my own TA leaving me to it when her working hours finished. I do think it's a culture thing in some schools though, which is a problem.