"Don't go past the staffroom on your own."

[Tolkienista]

I retired in July after a very long successful career as a primary teacher, loved my job and everything that went with it.
Called in to school this week on Tuesday having got permission off the headmaster to visit so that I could catch up with the staff and watch the school Nativity play.

Signed in using the automated system, picked up my lanyard as a visitor and then was promptly told by the office, that I couldn't go further than the staff room on my own, no interaction with pupils on my own....... "safeguarding."
I was shocked having worked at the school for close to 20 years, it was my first visit back since i left.

Anyway, cut a long story short. I needed the toilet ....(not far from the staff room) one of the children spotted me going in and by the time I came out there was a bunch of pupils waiting to greet me and catch up. They were so lovely and desperate to say hello, it was sad I just couldn't be myself and interact how i normally would in my natural environment.
I watched the Nativity and enjoyed catching up with everyone, but when I left the school, I wondered if I'll go back.

I'm retired and now an ex teacher so I guess my presence in school is different but AIBU to feel this is safeguarding off the scale, that I can't revisit my school and interact with children I've taught and know so well?

Any thoughts would be very welcome.

If they don't have an up to date dbs on file, they shouldn't let you in at all. It's a standard safeguarding rule.

Agree that it sounds like madness.

As a DSL it’s really tiring being made out to be a jobsworth or killjoy because you follow basic safeguarding rules. Adults who don’t work for the school and for whom we do not have an up-to-date DBS can’t be unsupervised with students. That applies regardless of if they are ex staff, the headteacher’s spouse or one of the kid’s grannies. It doesn’t mean they can’t visit, they just need to be with a member of staff.

Thanks for your messages.
My last DBS dates back to the summer term, so it's right up to date.

I'm certainly not being a kill joy, but if that's the way things are now, that's absolutely fine.
I don't feel comfortable in such an environment having to be with another adult and having dedicated my whole career to education and just being myself around children, it's time to move on.
I had a great career

My DBS dates back to the summer term, so it's as up to date as you can get.
Anyway you know more than me about it, so at least I'm now educated from posting my experience.
Thank you.

@Tolkienista the same thing happened to me when I went back to the school I had worked in for several years as a member of SLT to do some paperwork as a favour to the parents of an old student.

The children obviously all wanted to see me as soon as they knew I was there, and the absolute drama that was made out of me being in school and mixing with the kids briefly was utterly ridiculous to the point I was nearly in tears at the way I was treated by the receptionist. I had intended to go back to my Year 13s leaver's assembly, but didn't in the end, as I couldn't face being treated like that again.

Like you, I had literally just left, so I still had a DBS check on file that was legally still valid for another two years. I had also worked there for several years without any incident. I was hardly going to suddenly become a child abuser in the few minutes I popped in to say hi after I left.

I believe absolutely in the importance of safeguarding, but sometimes you need to use your common sense and discretion.

@EnidSpyton thank you so much for sharing your experience which as you say is remarkably similar to mine. I've gained a lot from reading your comment.
I honestly didn't see it coming, having messaged the head at the weekend to check it's was ok for me to visit and being met with a "yes of course you're very welcome, we'll be delighted to see you" turning into a less than welcome greeting at the office literally as I was putting the visitors lanyard round my neck.
"ok, just to let you know as a visitor you need to stay in the staff room, you can't just wander round the school on your own" (she did my DBS check in the summer, I've taught all her children)
What happened to as you say "commonsense and discretion "

Like you, I've now cancelled a visit I'd planned for this coming week. I was looking forward to it, but not any more, my hearts just not in it.
Gave my whole adult life to teaching and like you I think I deserve a little better.

The world has gone mad. Absolutely crazy.

This would've upset me too OP.

The more I think of it, the more I agree with you.
The lanyard I was wearing was the same as a plumber who was in the school at the same time as me.
The point I'm making Is we're classed in the same way, despite me having taught there for years and having a recent DBS check.

Sorry I think some of you are being a bit precious here.

If you've left, you've left. Ex staff do not - nor should have - some kind of special status.

Safeguarding rules are absolute. You are putting hard-working safeguarding leads in a difficult position if you start laying claim to a special status that doesn't exist.

You were classed as having the same status as the plumber because you had the same status as the plumber.

It does seem harsh but if you are not on the live visitor list then it's red lanyard and therefore accompanied- in our trust it's not just about an up to date DBS, you also have to be on the live visitor list which means attending a certain amount of times for regulated activities or interactions with pupils with third party letters sent and dbs and photo id before the visit etc.

Makes a jobs-worth of us all but it is what it is.

@SquirrelHash @Qwerty556
Thank you both for your clarification. That makes things a lot clearer. Having been warmly invited in, just wasn't expecting to receive such strict restrictions on my visit and my movements but now I see that you are walking a tight rope in your responsibility in applying safeguarding issues.
I'm certainly not "entitled"or "claiming special status" just a teacher whose been in the profession for longer than I'd like to admit and has seen enormous changes in how schools are run.

What a load of tosh. The world has gone mad, op. You've escaped at the right time!

@clement17 yep I've definitely escaped at the right time and fully embracing my retirement.
Thank you for your comment.
I've loved reading through them all.

As an ex teacher, this is utterly bonkers. I haven't actually been back to my school - left last year and was there for 20 years- as I now work full-time. I have been asked back in for a couple of things. I know I would be made so welcome and be allowed to go and visit classrooms to say hi.

Saying that an ex employee who gave the best years of their life to the school has the same status as a plumber when visiting mere weeks after they left is both ridiculous and offensive.

A teacher coming back to the school after having worked there for years, who is known to all the staff and students, and who was deemed to be safe to work in the school mere weeks before, is not in the same category as a man visiting the school to do plumbing work, for heaven's sake.

Of course they need to sign in and wear a lanyard. But to suggest that they pose the same safeguarding risk to students as a random contractor walking in off the street for the first time is absurd.

If certain (academy) schools spent the same amount of energy on actually sorting out the utter shite they're teaching kids and the untenable workload they're placing on teachers' shoulders as they do on pen-pushing like this, then we wouldn't be in the dire situation we are currently with teacher recruitment and the shocking state of children's mental health.

What official status does an ex-emplyee have in relation to safeguarding?

Surly an ex-employee is simply a visitor?

It doesn't matter what they are.

It's called common sense.

Yes, they are a visitor.

But a visitor who is known to staff and students, who has passed all safer recruitment checks and DBS checks in order to work at the school, and has presumably done so without incident for many years.

As such, some discretion and common sense would be expected when an ex-teacher (or TA) visits the school. Making them go through the same rigmarole as a contractor and then insisting that they be escorted everywhere through the building they were able to walk through freely just weeks before is ridiculous and a waste of staff time and resource.

I am happy to be corrected if someone has the evidence otherwise, but I have never come across any example of a child being abused by an ex-employee on a one-off return visit to the school at which they were formerly employed. I think if someone were planning on getting a job in a school to abuse a child, they'd probably do it during their 20 years of employment there, not wait 20 years to leave, pop back in for a visit, and do it then, ffs.

In too many schools, this kind of rearranging-the-deckchairs-on-the-Titanic obsession with nonsense 'roolz' - usually justified 'for Ofsted' - comes at the expense of actual leadership or care for students and staff. It's a result of the rapid promotion of under qualified and inexperienced (usually) PE teachers or Teach First grads, with no empathy or common sense and a love of power and control. The ship might be sinking around them, but as long as those safeguarding rules are rigidly adhered to when Mrs Tolkienista comes in for a visit, everything's just fine. It makes me sick.

Well said!

How many years do you have to work at a school to get this status and how many weeks after leaving does it lapse?

For the record I actually agree with the common sense rule. But we are ruled by box and back-coveting so it can't come as a surprise.

If you know and trust the staff member then it should be indefinite, to be honest.

We don’t have to ruled by these things. It’s people supporting and agreeing to follow nonsense rules that perpetuate them.

You have to follow rules in a school. The window lady/gent does not want to end up in a disciplinary or with a letter on their file for fear of offending someone. One might argue that someone who believes the safeguarding of children is important would be pleased to see such stringent measures in place.

It's this kind of box ticking that needs to be demonstrated as happening to prevent the downgrading that happened to Caversham Primary where Ruth Perry was Head, who later took her life. OFSTED said that school staff "did not have the required knowledge to keep children safe from harm" and did not take "prompt and proper actions" or ensured safeguarding was "effective".

I know it all sounds like a load of nonsense and of course a much loved ex teacher is going to be about as low risk as anyone. But the person in the window who hands you the lanyard and briefs the visitor on the schools requirements of what that lanyard entitles them to is simply taking a prompt and proper action, has the required knowledge (at least in that regard) and was doing their job effectively.

Shame we need all this in place and even then there are no guarantees. If it was me handing out the lanyard, I would have been a bit more "sorry we have to say this, but, you know what it's like these days!l etc to make it a bit less like feeling you've been slapped in the face for retiring.

Of course you need the lanyard and to sign in. That's to be expected and for fire safety procedures.

Beyond that, in this case, human compassion and common sense needs to kick in rather than robotic responses to rules and regulations.

The only exception is if the office staff were new and didn't know the op - in which case protocol should be followed until it was obvious (or they were told) that she had just retired and was revisiting after a couple of months.