Intimidated by a child

[CanadaMoose91]

I feel like I'm being silly about this, as I am the adult in the situation, but please give me some thoughts on what's going on...

I am a primary school teacher and I find one of my students very frightening. I am a small woman, and though this boy is only 9, he is much taller and stronger than me. He has had violent tendencies and often bullies other students, but has never lashed out at a teacher. No known SEN, though English is not his first language.

Obviously I step in whenever I see or am informed of any bullying and immediately take him to the behaviour manager. The issue is, I am very intimidated by this boy and am quite nervous when on my own with him. I do worry for my safety, but the safety of the other children has to come before my own, and he must be removed from play when he shows violence. I also don't want him to walk all over me, so I put on a brave face. But I am so worried!

Am I just being a worry wart? What can I do to make myself less unnerved? Any thoughts are so much appreciated.

[CheeseQueen]

Haven't read all the replies, but nine? Seriously?! I'm mum to a 9 year old,and have a few years older child who was 9 very recently.
Even those who you'd say were several years older than 9 weren't taller than me and I'm a just over five foot nothing in height.

[smallchanceofrain]

Italian I do hate it when someone comments on what someone else has said by saying "I do hate it" and then judging their advice to be, in the main, really good. It's so condescending. Really, as much as OP has my sympathy, she does need to get a grip of her professional standards and seek help from her peers, not a mumsnet forum (as fab as we are) - if she is genuinely worried about children's safety.

[Italiangreyhound]

small I am not really sure what you are criticizing here! Is it the fact I think, your advice is really good, or the fact 'get a grip' is over used and condensing, or both, or neither!

Mumsnet is Fab and we are open 24/7, which I am guessing is the case with the school support (which seems rather lacking).

[Italiangreyhound]

which I am guessing isn't the case ...

[dairymilkmonster]

Poor you and everyone else trying to support this young man. I would be scared too! Easy to be harsh on others when you are not in the situation.
If your manager isn't helpful I would escalate upwards - try the head teacher?
Good luck!

[Italiangreyhound]

I think both the child and the teacher need support, if this little horror young lad does hurts any of the kids or this teacher he should be in massive trouble. If the teacher can see this brewing then she should be taken seriously.

[CopperBoomCopperBoom]

You need to speak to whoever is above your line manager and make sure you have training if appropriate, debriefs where necessary and regular opportunities to discuss this. It does the child no good if you are anxious and you need to ensure that they will be safe, as well as the other children and yourself. Training should focus on de-escalation, positive communication and stance and least restrictive practice where restraint is needed.
If your line manager wasn't helpful do not hesitate to go above them. If someone is badly injured or the child is excluded from education because staff weren't trained or briefed well enough to manage them, the school will be at fault.
Please don't worry about bringing this up as a concern. I was hospitalised by a 10 yr old who is quite a bit smaller than me, which seems ridiculous but I'm not the first!

[smallchanceofrain]

Italian To me the word condescending means patronising / looking down on someone. I do not regard "get a grip" as condescending, I'm not looking down on OP. I'm saying she needs to take affirmative action. However, rebuking someone for using a phrase you "hate" but then giving them a pat on the head for saying something you have judged to be good - now that's condescending. It's all semantics and I like semantics.

[CopperBoomCopperBoom]

Also - I wouldn't look into a self defence course. You can't just use any old blocks and restraints on children, there are laws and guidelines and you also need tailored advice for the size of the child in comparison to you. Your headteacher or whoever is above them will be able to advise you. Look into governmental guidance if necessary
www.gov.uk/government/publications/use-of-reasonable-force-in-schools

But please don't start using any old self defence moves against this child. You could be prosecuted for assault or even worse cause serious injury or death. You need to be properly trained and hopefully with training will not need to put a finger on the child, and if you do, you will be able to justify that it was reasonable, proportionate and necessary.

[SparklyUnicornPoo]

When working in a special school I was sent on a course on how to restrain violent pupils, is it worth asking your school if you could go on a similar course? It made me feel a bit more confident and a lot of the kids were bigger than me.

[Italiangreyhound]

Small " It's all semantics and I like semantics." me too.

Maybe you are unaware that 'Get a grip' is used here a lot to imply 'you are losing your marbles, poster.' If you are genuinely not aware of this then sorry. And no head patting at all your advice was good. But on Mumsnet 'get a grip' has a very condescending feel to it IMHO.

Anyway, must go to bed! Night OP hope thinks will get better.

[CanadaMoose91]

Thank you for defending me, Italian.
I appreciate all the the good advice and will be seeking out additional training and the head teacher. I have received most of the training mentioned, but this specific case does not relate to what we learned - thanks again.

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Hello OP, as requested, we will move this over to the staffroom shortly.

[NotCitrus]

My ds is 8 in Y3, and there's 3 kids over 5 foot, one of whom is built like a brick outhouse and is much bigger than some of the small female teachers. He's almost as wide as me and I'm broad-shouldered and much taller. Some other kids are under 4 foot and look about five.

The scenario is perfectly believeable!

[CanadaMoose91]

Draylon: That's just the thing. We are trained to teach, and a small but of de-escalation. Not once did training mention what to do if de-escalation fails. This is why I worry - this child could harm another child, himself or myself, and I genuinely don't know how to help if my tactics don't work.

[palebluesky]

I must admit Italian I am a bit lost as to how you have extrapolated that this child is a 'horror' who should not be in a mainstream school environment.

I hate bullying but being a bully, in itself, does not (and IMO should not, at age 9) result in a permanent expulsion and a move to special school.

The child has not physically harmed OP in any way and while I am sympathetic to her feelings, that is, at this stage, what they are.

[llhj]

Is h actually 9? We have pupils who pretend to be younger than they are for all sorts of reasons. Normally from sub Sahara Africa.

[CanadaMoose91]

To my knowledge, he is actually 9.

The other children are quite nervous around him, but some of the older ones who speak his native language do play football with him - he is not lacking in friends (from what I can see on the playground).

[Astro55]

Team teach
Clear the classroom if he can't be moved
Red card on the wall with a runner to nearest adult

[Italiangreyhound]

palebluesky if you do not know why I would call a physically strong child, with violent tendencies who often bullies other kids and has intimidated a teacher, a horrow, I can't help you understand.

I am guessing I'm today's world you need to do a lot more than be a violent bully to get expelled, in fact I know so, my friends kids were bullied by a violent bully aged around 9. One had to go to hospital for treatment, ongoing.

But ai guess that is something kids should expect in order to cater for one bully with violent tendencies. Sounds fair to me!

Ps I don't need you to understand, unless you work in a school.

Canada can you explain why you are so intimidated by him?

If you were in a different job you would not normally expect to be unsupported when you felt intimidated.

And all the kids being friends with him, I guess they have learnt it may be safer than being one of the ones who are simply just scared of him.

I really hate bullies.

[Italiangreyhound]

Anf no I don't want anything bad to happen to want him, I want him and the other kids to be safe. Maybe he Would be better off in a school that can cater to his needs.

Hating just means really not liking, it Doran't mean you wish bad things on people; it means you do not want to tolerate on going violent or bad/anti social behaviour.

I do hope something gets doneOP, you have more power than the kids, you need to stick up for them. I am sure you are doing so.

[BoomBoomsCousin]

I think it's really worrying that kids have to go to school with someone who's behaviour makes them nervous. The school surely needs to address this?

[palebluesky]

Italian, the teacher has said she feels intimidated by the boy. She has not, apart from his size (which really he cannot help!) given any reasoning behind this.

I'm not stating that to be unsympathetic as yes, sometimes, you do have an uneasy feeling or sense of intimidation from someone that can't easily be described in writing, but nonetheless, he absolutely should not be permanently excluded from mainstream school and removed to a special unit on the basis of a feeling, no matter how powerful that feeling may be.

As for bullying the other children, that's awful and unacceptable, should be dealt with and dealt with severely but not by removing him to somewhere that can cater for his 'needs' (what do you think this place would be?)

I'm unsure why you felt the need to adopt a tone that was at once belligerent and patronising, but yes, I do work in a school and many children will go through a physical fight. Many children will bully, many will be bullied. In the first instance the onus is on the school to manage it, not to assume the child is beyond help and send them to a special unit, which are very, very rare and for cases far more severe than this sounds.

[LornaD40]

Op,
Request team teach training (mostly about de-escalation and how to avoid situations that can result in restraint)
Document every incident, then I would take to SLT
Request a risk assessment (SENCO?)

Does he have any SEN?