Puppy survival thread! All welcome!

[VanGoSunflowers]

Running on from our last one…

I won’t tag people because I will forget someone and then feel awful 😂

All three of mine eat lettuce and cucumber. But only K eats celery.

If I had to hazard a guess, I would say Pablo has the missing gene. He went for a chunk of onion I dropped on the floor the other day without even smelling it! Luckily I managed to take it out of his mouth before he swallowed it!
Even if he has just eating, if I am eating he will sit as close to me as he can get and drool. And he’s not a drooling sort of a dog!
Having said that, while he wolfed his worming treatment down the other day I did have to hide his flea treatment in his food.

ETA - there are definitely upsides to having a food obsessed dog though!

@LandSharksAnonymous what is a ‘flying down’ please? 😊

@VanGoSunflowers for me, it’s a dog going from a run (or a walk) straight into a ‘down’ without the sit. It’s basically the more advanced version of a ‘stop.’ It’s mostly completely unnecessary for anyone who isn’t working their border collie or unless you have lots of dogs tbh, as the emergency stop covers the needs for a dog to stop moving immediately.

I’ve found it useful if I enter a field with mine and there’s a dog nearby or dogs nearby - calling out ‘down’ and mine all dropping to the ground makes other dog owners feel that bit more comfortable, I think, as it shows they’re well trained and thus less likely to bother their dogs! I’m always very conscious that with four large adult dogs (smallest is 32kg) it can be intimidating for other dogs and dog owners.

I can’t believe how many dogs eat greens!!! I’m actually shocked 😂mine will eat carrots and spinach but otherwise it’s fruit - pineapple, raspberries and mango (mango, in particular, is considered quite the delicacy!). They’re not terrible scroungers either but again that’s more because I’ve taught them not to be (by giving them something every time I prepare food or have finished eating), than because they are good. So if I drop food when I’m preparing they leave it in the knowledge something even nicer is waiting for them!

But as you say @VanGoSunflowers it is handy having a dog that will eat anything! Mine also eat all their tablets straight without having to hide them!

@LandSharksAnonymous ah I see, that makes sense! I use ‘wait’ to get P to stop. He does it about 70% of the time 😂 but he does do it always before we cross a road. I’ve heard about threshold training, too. Are you supposed to train them that you walk out of any door first? Or in to any field etc? P isn’t massively bouncy when we leave for a walk, he tends to plod out of the door with me so not entirely necessary maybe? He still pulls on the lead somewhat but it’s much better than it was, I can tell as my arms aren’t sore 😂 he is definitely better behaved off lead! As soon as I take his lead off, I ask him to wait and then give him a release command and then he blows off all his steam. I can literally hear his paws hitting the ground when he is thundering about!
The reason I ask about the threshold hold training is there is one particular walk we do where we walk through a small ‘alley’ to get in to the field and I’d like him to remain behind me as I can’t always see who or what is in the field until we get in to it. He will ‘wait’ but he now runs ahead of me as soon as I start to move. Growing in confidence I think as he used to follow at my heel.

I think I should probably think about using the whistle for a stop now as well, I only use it sometimes for recall but he responds to ‘here’ just as well as the whistle for now.

That is impressive if you can get them all into a down @LandSharksAnonymous . I'd actually love to see you out walking your pack because it does sound awe inspiring that you're able to trust them all off lead at the same time. D'you want to board my big hooligan for a week of intensive training?

As I've repeated ad nauseam, Brie isn't really a foodie. She will eat treats at home, but not on a walk. I wouldn't say she's a scrounger exactly, she never pesters us when we're eating, she'll just lie quietly under the table. But there are a few specific food things she will politely ask for, either by sitting (for cheese, lettuce, apple) or if I'm chopping carrot I will get a gentle nudge to the hip. She never jumps up at the food prep area or barks for attention, so I don't mind her polite requests, it is quite endearing. After we've finished eating she will come and see if there is anything left over, but if I say "all gone" she'll just wander off and settle. Last night she was a happy bunny with some of our favourite mash (potato, sweet potato, broccoli and grated cheese). We never heavily season our food so it's fine for them.

So at home, they do respond to food treats and it's very easy to train good manners, but on a walk with LGD is different. Now at 18 months (yeah, I know, not a puppy really) we are entering into "who's that?/Where are they going?/What are they doing?" when people get their interest. It's a challenging time, because they want to follow people or stand and watch, they're suspicious of every little thing and won't be distracted by cheese or sausage.

I'm going to take more thoughts on this over to the other thread, so as not to hog puppy with my adolescent ramblings x

@VanGoSunflowers I think it depends on what you want from your dog! Some people are really firm that 'they' lead and the dog 'follows.' Personally...I don't really care where my dogs are in relation to me when we go out the front door etc.

If you're worried about him walking ahead of you to get into the field, you could try training him to heel with some chicken (or something high value) in your hand? You said he's very food motivated, so that may work? Mine are the same though - as soon as the command is given it's total chaos. I just stand back and let them do what they want for about 10 minutes before I even try and stop them but they never get too far away.

@Aubrielle it sounds more impressive than it is really! Once you have one trained, the others tend to quickly follow. Eris has picked it up in about a week (even if she is still crawling toward whatever adult is 'closest' on her tummy). But she's been watching the adults. It's a bit like toilet training - if puppies see the adult asking to go outside and then weeing, they pick it up! It also helps they are incredibly food motivated, so it makes training a breeze - there's not actual skill involved on my part 😃

I would happily take Brie for a week, but not quite sure what I'd do with a dog that isn't food motivated...probably run around like a headless chicken😂

And don't feel like you have to go - I think the 18 month stage is very useful to hear about for people with younger puppies (I still find it useful and I have lots of dogs). Does Brie just watch people? Or does she make a noise?

We don't really stick with the going ahead rule @VanGoSunflowers .
There are times that it makes sense to be in front of the dog, but sticking to it rigidly is a throwback to dominance theory. Obviously we teach them not to shove past us or others because of their size, but if Brie waits politely she can go through the puppy gate at home ahead of me. This is helpful for kissing gates on a walk where it is far easier for the dog to go through first. She is always slightly ahead of me when we lead walk - her shoulder is in front of my hip and this is our close control position. I realise it's very different when you're training off lead heelwork though and I know that is what you were referring to.

@LandSharksAnonymous She watches all the time. As pups, they notice stuff but only fleetingly, now it's changing to a more intent observance. The other day she stood on the highest point of the field watching a groundsman repainting the white lines on the football pitch - we had to stand for ages while she scrutinised his movements. Yesterday it was a distant mountain biker on the moor, then some walkers that we hadn't even noticed until she stopped and stood focused. I suppose it's like a hound sighting prey in a way. Never makes a sound, no. They tend not to be big barkers off home territory - although home territory can extend well beyond the garden. She's the quietest by miles in relation to barking, but she does more "talking" than the others did.

She doesn't miss a thing now, watches every person, every dog and this is the most risky time to let them off lead, because they want to investigate every tiny thing in case it's a threat. I wish we were remote enough that it would be safe to let her off but we're too close to busy roads and she'd follow a dog or person. Again, like a hound, because I know owners of breeds like Borzoi or Deerhounds have that dilemma of whether a place is safe enough to risk allowing them off lead. That was the difference with S, and why we could let her walk off lead - zero interest in investigating people or dogs, she lived in her own little world. Maybe S was another autistic dog, she was certainly untypical of her breed. But with Brie now, it is interesting to see her slowly evolving and developing more awareness of her own instincts rather than just being a big goofy puppy.

@LandSharksAnonymous and @Aubrielle for me it was more from a practical perspective, I’m not so bothered about the front door as he is always on the lead, it’s more if we walk somewhere and I can’t see around the corner so I don’t know if there are other dogs or people about. But the getting him to heel is the obvious answer- I don’t know why I didn’t think of that 😂

Just come back from a walk and I feel like a bad owner! Pabs was off lead and this lady walked around the corner and I tried to call him back, he’s been getting much better at ignoring people (dogs are another issue but we are getting there) but he must have taken a shine to this woman as he ran over and jumped up. I apologised profusely (I tried to recall him back before he went to her but she was quite close to us) and she said “I know he only wants to play but I am afraid of dogs” - I felt awful! Poor woman. Anyone else have any similar stories of feeling mortified about your dogs reaction to someone to make me feel better? 🤦‍♀️

@VanGoSunflowers My sprocker was running round the beach playing with another spaniel. He ran straight into a woman's leg from behind and took her out. She landed on her backside with quite a thud. Does that help? 😂

@SpanielsGalore yes that helps 😂
Although that sounds like an accident rather than with Pablo thinking everyone wants to be his friend 😂

@@VanGoSunflowers I had something similar with Merry a couple of days ago. It was very quiet so she was off lead. She had been doing perfect recall the whole walk, then this elegant lady in a WHITE DRESS came round the corner and the dickhead dog ran and jumped up at her. She was frightened, I was mortified.

Well it’s taken a little under a month but Eris has finally had another dog go for her. She handled it like a champ - just let out a squeak and moved to my other side. Twatdog was a massive wimp (as expected) and was prancing around yelping like he was the one snapped at. Pen lunged and snarled and Hen and Clem just stood there unimpressed.

But it’s all okay as the other dog was ‘just a bit gobby. She wouldn’t do anything.’ Sigh.

I hate a puppies first bad encounter as I always have this overwhelming urge to cuddle them, but that’s literally the worst thing to do. Also it can just set them up for being reactive around other dogs if they’re already timid or tbh for a variety of reasons. So she got a quick head pat, they all got a treat (Pen got two because she’s still proving her mum genes are going strong), and off we went. But definitely a reminder to me that even when I’m WFH babies go out early. All the nobs seem to appear at about 7 (at least where I live).

@VanGoSunflowers dont feel like a bad owner! Happens to all of us at some point and at least Pablo is still very young - it would be so much worse if he was fully grown and 30kg!

But if it makes you feel better (and @SpanielsGalore and @Aubrielle have heard this story before), when I was socialising twatdog when he was a baby I took him to my local coffee shop (strapped to my chest). They have bacon rolls on the side that are pre cooked and then they bung them in the oven to heat through. I leaned over to pay, and the little bastard grabbed one!! I was mortified.

And the first time he went to the vets without his litter mates, he did such a big wee on the table he flooded it and was puddling under the sodding table. Oh and then there was the time he took me out on the beach because he ran back to me so fast he couldn’t stop in time! Oh then there was the incident where Pen recalled to the wrong human - another woman with brown hair who was sort of nearby…

Basically, dogs are twats who live to embarrass their owners!

Sorry to hear about Eris's first negative dog experience @LandSharksAnonymous It's always a bit of a worry in the days that follow, but hopefully having her pack for support will help her to bounce back.

Pen recalling to the wrong human reminds me of the day that Sylvie followed a random walker to the far end of the meadow, before realising "hang on, you're not my mum..." and turning to see me jumping up and down waving my arms and yelling "Syyylvieee!" 😳

@Aubrielle I have to say if Sylvie had done it to me she'd have been coming home with me 😁 It does make me laugh how they managed it - they're meant to have good eyesight and a good sense of smell, so how do they confuse their humans so easily?

Satan has form for picking random (usually quite elderly- in their 80s) men on her walks and following them around. If I walk her I am forever trying to wrangle her away from groups of pensioners. 😂

It is scary though when they have that first bad experience. But she is absolute fine - curled up under her favourite bush with one of my 'dog' blankets. She did stick a bit closer to Pen after that, but by the end of the walk she was bouncing along happily! I was just so annoyed as she had absolutely no interest in the other dog (none of them did tbh) and it just lunged at her and snapped it's jaws - the owner only just managed to tighten the lead in time. 😤

Oh, Sylvie was an odd one @LandSharksAnonymous . She lived in a bubble. I've said before that she once "lost" my husband on a walk and brought herself home. I found her waiting by the garden gate. Fortunately it was early on a Sunday morning, so not much traffic.

Any snappy dog incident can be bad for a pup, it's the last thing you want at this age. As you know, because I repeat it endlessly, Algy never fully recovered from being attacked and injured when he was 16 weeks old. It left me dog phobic for a long time and despite giving him extensive socialisation and ringcraft classes he always had issues with large black dogs. If I'm honest, it has had an impact on Brie, because I was very over cautious when she was tiny. So, I know how you feel and I think you're entitled to be angry.

Poor Eris. It's a very silly dog who chooses to go for the baby of a pack. I'm glad she had recovered by the end of the walk.

It's so dog dependent, my older one has had a dog snap at her enough to graze her and a few scraps after dogs had a go but she's absolutely fine with pretty much all dogs (but will tell off humpers etc.). Younger one has never had a bad experience but is very wary of other dogs.

@SpanielsGalore Honestly she bounced back within seconds but I know she was scared as she moved to the other side of me - which is what they all do when they are scared.

@Aubrielle Sylvie sounds like a bit of a genius tbh. I'm fairly sure if I left any of mine two doors down they wouldn't be able to find their way home😃

What always frustrates me is how complacent the owners of these dogs are. It's like they just do not care or even understand. I am sorry for Algie though. But it seems like Brie has done alright - she has her little cocker spaniel friend (because, as we know, all dogs love cocker spaniels 😂)

@tizwozliz how comes your younger one is so wary? Just in their nature, do you think?

But as you say, it's very dog dependent. Twatdog is a massive wimp - as evidence by him completely overreacting when the dog this morning snapped at Eris - whereas all my others are more robust.

@LandSharksAnonymous - i think it's mostly her nature but who can really say. It's not something we've ever really worked on as it's in no way problematic. She'll happily walk alongside other dogs, have a quick sniffy greeting, work in classes alongside, but the moment they play bow at her that's just too much and she'll run away/jump at me to save her. She's also of course always had a big sister to play with.

Actually, when we were walking regularly with another lab she did get to the stage where they were happy to run round together so she's just very selective.

@tizwozliz your youngest sounds like my spirit animal 😂 I wish mine would ignore other dogs! After being so good at recalling half way to running over other dogs when we were on the beach, he completely ignored me today and decided to go bother a border collie who was minding his own business chasing his ball 🤦‍♀️

@Struckbylightning ah bless Merry! That story does make me feel better though, is she loving getting out for her walks??

@LandSharksAnonymous Im sorry to hear about Eris’ experience today! I hope she is alright afterwards. It’s scary isn’t it! Especially because it feels hard sometimes to control the situations that arise! They just happen upon you!

Not to defend today's nob of an owner, but Bill has gone through some very reactive periods, and has had a go at several entire males including some he knows well where it was utterly unexpected. I probably do come across as complacent sometimes but it's genuinely not that at all, it's a sort of despairing acceptance that I can't do anything about it apart from apologise and drag him away. Thank God he's not so bad today - only one bark and that was a dog that surprised him coming out of a gate as he was dragging me for a walk.

His arousal is so high that I don't let him approach puppies at all - they wildly over-excite him, and while he means no harm, it's obviously potentially frightening to have a grown dog bark at you when you're tiny - and you'd think anyone with a nobhead like mine would do the same thing.

Merry is loving her walks, especially if I go up in the hills where it’s quieter and I can let her off the lead, it’s lovely watching her galloping about in a field. She does get really excited when meeting other dogs and people, and clearly thinks everyone wants to be her friend. I’m trying so hard to distract, and to persuade her to meet people with paws on the floor, but it’s an uphill battle. Thinking about it, she greets dogs flat on her tummy, but jumps up at humans. She’s started to pull on the lead as well, which is starting to hurt my back. I’m trying to do that thing where you just stop walking till she comes back to heel, but she gets frustrated and bites at the lead. I don’t enjoy those walks much! I think he is also extra heightened when the evening walk is in the dark.

Apart from that one time when she went to the other room for a nap, she is still Velcro-pup. I have started to bribe her to wait outside the bathroom so I can at least pee alone!

Does anyone have any ideas about how to encourage her to entertain herself? She seems to need constant interaction. The only time she goes off to play, it’s because she is doing some evil - earlier on she went off to play alone and it turned out she had stolen my hairbrush and was chewing it. Or when she went down the garden and it turned out she had found a stash of cat shit and was eating it. So gross.

I joined a group on Facebook called ‘enrichment ideas for dogs’, but the only suggestions I could find on there were ‘hide some treats in a cardboard box/ toilet roll tube’, plus lick mats, Kongs etc. ie they all involve food. Am I just being impatient, she is only 4 months old? I am so sick of hearing myself say/ think “I don’t remember our other dog being this much hard work!”

@tizwozliz sounds like, as you say, she’s selective which really is no bad thing! I’ve joked before but my bunch tend to absolutely love cockerpoos and spaniels (particularly cockers) and other Goldies. They do as yours do - walk past other dogs and mostly ignore, but if it’s one of the above then all bets are off if the other dog so much as gives any indication.

@VanGoSunflowers 100%! She was fine last night though - we bumped into Twatdogs girlfriend (the original, not the second one), and she had a lovely game with her. Got knocked over twice and just picked herself up and rejoined the game.

Did you try the walking to heel with a treat with Pablo yesterday?

@Bupster I definitely don’t think you sound complacent tbh! Yesterday’s owner was particularly bad as I moved off the path to give them space and they moved across the path toward me! 😤How is the nobhead at the moment? How are his silky ears?!

@Struckbylightning I shouldn’t laugh, but this bit: The only time she goes off to play, it’s because she is doing some evil did make me chortle! Honestly at four months it probably is a bit early, she’ll get there though. She’s an intelligent breed as well, isn’t she? That makes it harder. I’m quite lucky as although Goldies are intelligent, they’re also supremely thick. In terms of keeping herself entertained my best advice would be to proceed as you are, but with half an eye on her to stop naughtyness and then letting her off to make her own entertainment again - she will learn eventually what is and isn’t good idea.

I didn’t get my morning walk in today, as I unexpectedly had to be in the office so early, so I am all jittery and twitchy as I have a lot of excess energy. I do think morning dog walks are a bit like a drug - once you get used to them you start craving them. Worst thing is I won’t even get an evening dog walk as meetings will finish late. And whilst I am glad for a bit of space from the piranha, I am missing her. 13 hours away from her (factoring in my commute) is the longest amount of time I’ve been away from her since she was born!

@Struckbylightning it sounds tough for you! I totally get the trying to train them not to jump up, it’s like they know they’re not supposed to but sometimes they’re too excited when meeting people and do it anyway! We know it’s not because they don’t understand not to do it because we have trained them to do other things relatively quickly - at least, that’s my logic. We had a moment on a walk yesterday where two dogs who didn’t know each other were walking past each other and barking their heads off, one of the owners of one of the dogs (I presume it was her DH who was ahead with the dog) was walking behind us and I felt a bit chaotic so I put Pablo in a sit and asked him to focus on me while the situation dissipated. All fine. But then the owner that was behind us saw him do this and started saying all excitedly “oooh he’s SOOOO good” and that promptly made him lunge towards her to jump up - just tipped him over the edge 😂 not the lady’s fault, she was being kind etc but I do wonder how much of it is just waiting for them to calm down as they mature!
If it’s any consolation, I noticed P become a little calmer and more independent around the 4 month mark. Maybe that will go out of the window when he becomes a teenager! He also still pulls on the lead sometimes, but it’s usually if he sees something he wants to get to.

How long are her walks? Just wondering if she is tired out enough at home? This also may be a controversial opinion and it probably really depends on the dog - would having access to more of her own ‘stuff’ make her better or worse do you think?
Pablo has quite the collection of toys and chews etc that he can access at all times. I would imagine with some dogs, that could have the opposite effect and make them even more overstimulated but with P, when he has a moment of needing to get his energy out, he always goes for ‘his’ stuff, if that makes sense. Of course, this may have made no difference whatsoever and he may just be unusually placid at home but he is pretty chilled between walks. Currently sat in the living room with DS while he eats his breakfast and P is in the kitchen curled up on his bed!

Sorry for the essay!!