Summer 25 pups

[Lavenderdog]

Any other new puppy owners around this summer? Have been looking back at some of the old puppy support threads and can see how helpful it was for those posters to share their experiences.

9 week old mini schnauzer here - so toilet training and avoiding those needle sharp teeth are the current main activities here!

(And being tolerant of her determination to rid my garden of lavender plants. Hence my user name 😂)

@CoubousAndTourmaIet I resisted asking how years of careful research resulted in a poodle x collie.

I confess I didn't even know what walking to heel was until I came on here. I actually had to ask someone 😳

Mine have all walked with loose lead, slightly ahead of me. On a good day at least 😬(well, except Rosie, who was usually intent on dislocating my shoulder, but we shall gloss over that 😁)

@SpanielsGalore @CoubousAndTourmaIet I did not care for that poster’s tone! I’m glad they at least recognised themselves in my description though.
@SpanielsGalore glad you had a good walk!
We came back from ours about an hour ago and were delighted to bump in to the man who has the sprocker and the Spaniel so Pabs had a good run around with his crazy Spaniel friend, Ruby. She’s a lovely little dog and the only one he gets to play with that can match his energy!

This thread is nearly full 😱

I think my most said phrase is, “Oh Rory, you don’t half get under my feet” 😂.

I feel left out that I haven’t found the thread though 🥺.

@Idstillratherbepaddleboarding I say that to Pabs a lot too, the amount of times I have nearly stepped on him but then have completed a kind of weird leaping type dance to save him last minute 😂

@cazinge love your pup’s name by the way!

@Struckbylightning Im glad things are getting better for you 😊

ETA: @Idstillratherbepaddleboarding its here on the dog forum, someone posted asking advice on what to get for their new puppy

@VanGoSunflowers ahh found it, TBH I’m more concerned about her saying her dogs don’t go out of the house until 16 weeks. That’s when the window for socialisation closes. Rory still wouldn’t have been out and he’d have missed out on loads of useful experiences!

This gives me chills. We didn't get our pup out in the world until almost 14 weeks and we're paying for that now. Nobivac 4 screwed us and I wish I could turn the clock back and have her out at 10 weeks. Next pup will be out from first vaccs. With Brie, I made an error of judgement in assuming she'd be bomb proof like all our previous pups, but she's not. So now, at almost 18 months, she lacks emotional maturity and confidence, and it's like walking an overgrown puppy.

So, your comment gives me chills, because I screwed up with my girl. And when I look at the other thread, the lack of humility, the sheer confidence in their training ability makes me shudder, because all it takes is one dog that doesn't behave how you expect and you're fucked. I've reared 9 LGD pups but this one has been the biggest challenge. I was far too complacent. We've learned the hard way just how important the early socialisation period is, and it should never be underestimated.

I feel like I've missed an entire thread of madness!? Where was this!?

Doghouse new pup incoming... you'll love it! Surprisingly, I've managed to stay out of it 😁

@CoubousAndTourmaIet I wouldn’t say that poster spoke with confidence. Confidence to me would be “this is what I do with my puppies and it works for us - but bear in mind I work my dogs and you may not want to, therefore a different approach might work” rather than basically saying “if you don’t do what I do then your dogs won’t be properly trained” and constantly trying to goad @SpanielsGalore by insinuating that she doesn’t know what she is doing because she doesn’t keep her pups within one metre of her at all times. When it’s bloody clear to me that you all very much know what you’re doing and have your dog’s best interests at heart.

There’s a lot of talk about poorly trained, or completely untrained dogs all over the forums but nobody ever seems to talk about the fact that, in my humble opinion, you can go too far the other way and train your dog to within an inch of it’s life granting it no freedom whatsoever. I can see why people would want/need to do that if they work their dogs but why do it for a family pet if you don’t feel the need to? That poster’s comment irked me because if I had read it a couple of months ago, I would think I was failing miserably and it would have completely undermined my confidence. As it goes, I feel more in my stride with Pablo these days and tend to look more at the bigger picture of dog ownership. Is he perfect? Does he recall every time I ask him to? Does he always in every circumstance walk to heel? Fuck no, of course he doesn’t! But I see it as a win if he does those things some of the time (especially as he is so young) to me, it means we are on the right track and that we may take two steps back and three steps forward sometimes - that progress won’t always be linear. The big picture for me is the absolute joy I get out of seeing him out in the world, sniffing and bounding and enjoying himself knowing that he feels comfortable to do so because his owner is nearby and we’ve built up a bond.

I also don’t think (again, in my humble opinion) that you screwed up with your girl @CoubousAndTourmaIet - none of us are going to be doing this perfectly every time (we wouldn’t need these threads if we did 😉) and even those pups that have been socialised surely won’t have experienced absolutely everything that they need to before the 16 week window is up. I know people who socialised their dogs but were still scared of hi-vis jackets, or any manner of things because trying to hit everything on that list is so hard when you’re balancing it with toilet training, general training, bonding, reading eleventy million books on puppies, researching 50 different types of puppy food, trying not to get your hands bitten off or stopping your house from being destroyed and trying not to rock in the corner with a bottle of gin every night AND getting on with normal life. It’s bloody hard and I have the utmost respect for all of you for not only going through this period multiple times, but always having your dog’s best interests at heart. Because this is bloody hard!

So, I am waffling, but I think if you focus on the positives of what you have achieved with Brie, I think you’ll find that they far, far outweigh the negatives.

@CoubousAndTourmaIet Oh yes. The crate trained by 10 weeks thread.

Puppy Farm if ever I saw one. I bowed out and unwatched so I missed the rest of the drama 😁

There are particular posters that often come out with complete and utter twaddle. At least when I'm being a nob, I'm usually relatively constructive and it comes from a good place and with good intentions (even if the delivery sometimes leaves a lot to be desired)...

Ultimately, what I need from my rabble is going to be very different to what other people need from theirs. And that's okay. It's not one size fits all.

@CoubousAndTourmaIet I’m sorry if my comment upset you, that was not my intention 🙁.

Thanks for the kind words of reassurance @VanGoSunflowers

You are right, there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance on some of the threads. I totally agree that a military training regime can suck out all the joy, and we need to find a balance. Not every dog is destined to be a working dog and not every pup is going to be suited to this type of training. In the last few weeks here I've seen just how many of us have struggled with this in regard to finding suitable training for our pups.

You've come such a long way in those few weeks with Pablo, that you're now able to see some of these comments for what they are. But there's no doubt that it is very, very daunting for first time puppy owners looking at some of the training threads here and thinking " you mean I have to do all this...?", when in reality it is all tiny baby steps and learning as you go. As experienced as I am, I've been filled with self doubt here myself, and frequently given a kicking, it must be completely overwhelming for new owners.

As for my issues - yes, I know I have to stop blaming the nobivac and quit beating myself up. I could say my problems were compounded by the fact that the advice is all geared towards the average small to medium pup, whereas mine was too heavy for a sling, too chunky for a backpack. But even that excuse won't cut it, because @LandSharksAnonymous has managed admirably with Eris, who is also a very large pup. I do need to focus more on what I got right with Brie, and at home she has always been an angel 😊

No, you didn't upset me @Idstillratherbepaddleboarding - quite the opposite - I am agreeing with you. I just want to stress the importance of early socialisation, because if you miss that period, you can end up regretting it months down the line. I know we'll get there with our girl, it's just that we feel the delay in getting out may have played a part in her lack of confidence. But equally, I suppose it may just be who she is. She's a bit of an eccentric in many ways.

Seriously crashed and burned today 😭😭. It’s torrential rain, I’m supposed to be doing my study day but keep seeing jobs that need doing and I’ve come in my period. There’s a distinct lack of things to look forward to in September and DS’s 6th form needs have proven eye wateringly expensive so a distinct lack of spare funds to plan anything.

Oops that was meant for the SAD thread not the puppy thread 🙈🙈🙈.

@CoubousAndTourmaIet oh good, I’m a bit of a worrier! I guess you’ll never know whether it’s lack of getting out or just her personality but you can only work with what you’ve got!

I'm a terrible worrier too, especially as we (like you) lost our previous dog prematurely and traumatically 😢I think it has given me a lot more neurosis about this pup.

Sorry you're having a difficult day. I don't think the sudden change from sunny to drizzly helps much, or the fact that this is a transitional time of year. I hope you have a good weekend and that some time outdoors with Rory and your family can lift your spirits a bit x

I’m glad of your accidental post @Idstillratherbepaddleboarding it completely highlights my point that we all have other life stuff going on as well as raising pups/young dogs - it’s hard!
I hope your day picks up

@CoubousAndTourmaIet its a shame, really because some of what she was saying was useful but then completely lost all credibility after the arbitrary 1 metre rule and then just her general attitude. I have massively appreciated all the advice you have given me - you and all the others on these threads have genuinely made the whole puppy raising experience so much easier because of the support and advice you’ve given me. That has made an actual, tangible positive difference to my life and you wouldn’t have been able to do that if you didn’t have so much experience already!

@LandSharksAnonymous I find your delivery much more palatable to be honest, you are straight to the point (which I appreciate) without trying to come across as superior! Plus, you actually know what you’re talking about.

In my dog world, Pablo has discovered today that there is sometimes food in the bin. Aggghhhh 😂😂
Also - I think it’s time to venture away from the safe, quiet walks we do and start working on some stuff in more distracting environments. I know I need to do it but my arms won’t thank me afterwards 😂😂

@CoubousAndTourmaIet am I raising Eris though? Or are my girl's raising her? 😁It's a lot easier to raise a puppy when you have three, intelligent, adult dogs to help out (note, Twatdog is not included in that)! Besides, Brie is clearly spoilt rotten and treated marvelously and from what you've said utterly adores you...so you're definitely doing a lot right!

@Idstillratherbepaddleboarding you have Rory to look forward too❤

@VanGoSunflowers I like to think I know what I'm talking about! 😃

I'm taking Eris on her first walk tomorrow. I half debated leaving the rest of the rabble at home, and then walking them later, but I think it will be useful for her to see how they respond to me and to learn from them rather than me focussing on her 100%. To be honest, I am reasonably confident that she will either follow me along of she will attach herself to one of the adults and follow them around. If she follows Twatdog she'll be in for a nasty surprise - he has form for piddling on puppies 😂

Please report back on the first walk @LandSharksAnonymous . I'm really interested to know whether little Eris will go by example and behave like a fully fledged adult or will totally do her own puppy thing.

@LandSharksAnonymous That was kind of the point I was trying to make. A pet dog doesn't need to be trained to a working dog standard. And call me cynical, but I can't see someone who is buying a poodle x collie, that is kept in a cage in the utility room, training to a working dog standard.

@VanGoSunflowers I couldn't understand the implication that my dogs would run away when frightened rather than come to me, just because they go further than a metre away from me. P comes running and leaps into my arms if she's worried by anything.
I tried to be polite and say I appreciate things are different with working dogs and got told dogs are dogs.

The other trainer said it helped to view walks as play sessions in different situations. But I don't agree with that either.
To me, a play session is a play session. A training session is training. A walk is a walk.
My behaviourist friend advocates for dogs being given choices in life, and what to do on a walk is one of them.
I choose the location and duration and they choose what to do. If they want to range at a distance, they do. If they want to stay close and circle round me, they do. If they want to explore a patch of ferns for ten minutes, I stand still until they are ready to move on. They can choose to go left or right at junctions. I would prefer they didn't choose to run off chasing deer, but you can't have everything in life. 😂
We do do some recalls and 'this ways' for practicality if one is lagging behind the other.

@CoubousAndTourmaIet I don't think you should blame yourself for Brie's nervousness. Sometimes it's just the way they are. P was out and about from 8 weeks old and was very well socialised. I could take her anywhere. But when she was about 2 years old, she became scared of the car, noise phobic and has issues around me eating food. Toast is banned in my house as it sends her running trembling into the furthest away corner. I can't get to the bottom of the cause, and I can't afford the £500 a behaviourist wanted to come and see her and possibly not be able to help either.

The training talk frustrates me which is why I generally try to stay out of it @SpanielsGalore

I do agree - I don't think every walk necessarily needs to be a full-on training session. But then it could be argued that I'm at the other extreme. In any case, I like the way you do things, and your dogs sound happy.

I disagree with the "dog is a dog is a dog" mentality that some trainers hold, because you do have to make some allowance for a dog's type and its basic instincts. The level of prey drive makes an enormous difference to what motivates them for starters.

Your toast issue with P sounds very odd and quite challenging. Is it the crunching? Does she react the same way to you eating biscuits or cereal?
The car problem, yes, we had the same from around 8 or 9 months. We are seeing progress now, to the point where my chap was going off in the car the other day, and Brie wanted to go with him. That's a massive change from 6 months ago when she was just giving a flat refusal to go near. We're taking it very slowly and not pushing her at all.

She is rather peculiar. I wouldn't exactly describe her as nervous, but she is very sensitive. She's a mass of contradictions though. At home she's very confident, on most walks she's quite sure of herself, knows exactly where she wants to go, but there are a few specific things that make her anxious. It's mainly rattly tractors or trucks and big barky dogs. You could be right that it's nothing to do with the early weeks though, because initially these things didn't seem to bother her much, so that makes sense. It was like secondary fear kicked in, but we're working on it.

edit for grammar.

I just think so many of these ‘rules’ are so rigid and not necessary. It’s very easy to over complicate training - I think that’s what overwhelmed me so much at the start. I’ve had a shitty few weeks at work and my down time/happy place is walking my dog off lead somewhere beautiful and quiet. So I just did that. Yes, it meant I slacked for a little while on ‘training’ but we got back in to it and all is good. If I thought every single walk had to be that way, it would become a chore very quickly.

It seems so many people who give training advice aren’t interested in what the owner (not ‘handler’ if they’re your family pet) actually wants from their dog. Like I’ve had people tell me I shouldn’t allow Pablo on my sofa or that he shouldn’t go on there unless I tell him he can. But, well, it’s my bloody sofa so I will decide on that thank you very much. Its the same with many of the things that were suggested on that thread - and it was implied that if you didn’t follow that advice and do those things with your dog that you are a shitty owner and your dog is out of control. And the smug “I have never had issues with recall, can you say the same?” just tipped me over the edge 😂

Anyway, I’m going to shut up about it now 😂 hope you’re all having a great day.

Question for those with male pups…

pup is 16 weeks now. He’s always had a ‘special’ cuddly toy that he has on his bed and goes at, for want of a better word, when he’s tired. Even from 8 weeks old so nothing sexual/hormonal.

I’ve noticed in last few days he’s started to widen his field of focus (tried to mount a few dogs and even tried to clamp on to my arm) and I definitely don’t want a humpy pup.

He’s very little so easy to distract and redirect but don’t want to ignore until he’s a full hormonal ‘teen’ dog and he’s a nightmare.

I’ve read your post about your sacrificial cuddly toy @LandSharksAnonymous and I’m happy for his to keep his teddy for when he needs it, but I want to be able to manage his behaviour at other points without it becoming too much of a focus/issue.

Any advice?

Oh @Paws4thought25 bless him! What I would suggest is, at least in the house, is give him a firm no and re-direct to his toy so he understands the boundaries - toy is fine, human arm is not. If possible always try and have a toy nearby. It means your house will be a bit messy for a few days/weeks until he gets the hang of being diverted but eventually (and if he's smart) when he gets very overexcited he'll learn to go to his toy. It's how I trained mine to handle over-stimulation and excitement. He goes to where we keep his 'sex toy' and waits patiently for it to be handed to him. Once he had a 'focus' for his outlet it meant that if I refused to give it to him he learned that he couldn't do what he wanted to do - so he just settled. There was a bit of 'grumpy' barking at first because he wanted it but he soon learned that he only got it sometimes. So inside, divert, make him learn that he can't just have at it whenever he wants, and teach him to settle.

Four months is a really rough age, as their brains are quite developed and they have so much energy that they don't know where to direct it (and obviously they can't be exercised too much) but they are also quite dim in terms of understanding social niceties and manners...

In terms of trying to mount other dogs, I would call him away from them before he notices them - get him to come to you and give him a v. high level reward. Lots of young dogs (male and female) hump in excitement but sometimes, the most social of them, will try and do it with other dogs. When they're this young there's no domination or nefariousness involved - it's just sheer stupidity and youth. The problem is, of course, that other dogs don't like it and it's v. poor manners. But really by 16 weeks he'll have done most of the socialisation he needs to do so there's no issue in recalling him from other dogs.

@VanGoSunflowers People love to criticise others when it comes to anything, puppy raising in particular (I have found). Ultimately, if a dog is healthy, happy, and reasonably well trained then you've successfully raised a puppy. Not all dogs need recall 100% of the time. Not all dogs need to stay on the floor. Not all dogs need to go to the groomers. And Pablo is a star, so ignore them 😀

@SpanielsGalore Quite! I imagine that particular mix will probably stay on the sofa for most of it's life. I can't see it working out in the fields. Bless P for being so terrified of toast though, what an odd duck! It's such a unique thing to be scared off. Poor P!