Puppy Survival Thread - for old and new pups heading into winter

[Lougle]

A thread to continue our journey with our puppies as we head into winter.

If you're new to having a puppy, jump straight in.

@Lougle She hasn't been weighed in about a month but was 20.8kg at her last weigh in Will see what she is next week as she'll be weighed for worming prior to travelling home. I'm expecting her to end up around 23kg full grown.

I’ve bumped her up to 125g at each meal plus training treats so probably having 425g a day

maggie is 19 weeks I think and weigh(ed) 13.5kg at the last weigh in

@lougle is she an English or American lab. I have an American lab who tend to be smaller and slighter. He’s around 27kg. He’s nearly 18 months old now.

She's ¾ show line ('English') and ¼ working ('American').

I had my phone appointment with a behaviourist this morning. Pineapplepup’s behaviour over the last week has been horrendous, I think I’ve cried more this week than cumulatively in my whole life. I don’t say this lightly but she is making my life a living hell. The barking is relentless, my Apple Watch is constantly sending me alerts about the noise and how my hearing is going to be damaged at that decibel level 🙄. I am being woken up at night by the most horrendous headaches, I’m pretty sure it’s due to the barking. And this is all indoors, if I let her out to toilet, she starts barking there too and I have to pick her up and bring her straight back in, where she barks some more, and sometimes wees/poos inside as she was too busy barking to do it outside. Putting frosting on the internal doors has helped in the evenings and I’ve just frosted the entire French door to the garden, I don’t need light/view of the outside world yeah?!

so the behaviourist thinks she’s under stimulated and that’s why she’s become oversensitive to noises and movement, to the point that she’s now barking at non existent sounds as she being hyper vigilant listening for them because apparently she’s getting hits of dopamine when she barks. It’s also why she barks at the garden door for me to open it (5 times in the last hour, none of those times has she weed/poo’d, just barked her head off, I had to carry her in)

That kinda makes sense in theory except I have no idea how to make her ‘more stimulated’. Yesterday, she woke around seven, went outside did her business and then ate her breakfast, we played with her toys until around 8.45 ish, she went back in her crate and slept for well over 2 hours. I then scattered a load of kibble over the lawn and she spent time sniffing all that up, a bit later I filled her Kong ball thingy with treats and peanut butter and she spent ages chasing that round the kitchen. Then the barking fully started and wouldn’t stop, for no reason. I took her out for a nice walk in the field opposite my house on the long training lead, let her off the lead for most of it and she ran around like a loon, looking joyous for half an hour. Incidentally her recall is amazing. We got back, the barking restarted. She has chewy toys, squeaky toys, tug toys, yak sticks. She eats every bit of her (high quality) food, drinks her water, loves a cuddle, is flea/worm treated, no injuries/illnesses, loves every human (adult and child) she has ever met and will shamelessly try to get kisses from complete randoms in the street.

Behaviourist says to play white noise at all times and make sure radio and tv is on all the time so that all potential external sounds will be masked, make sure there are no reflections and to try to keep her away from other dogs. I’ve been doing all this today but so far zero success, I assume I’m being impatient. Can’t keep her away from all dogs though, I seem to live in the dog capital of the world, I only open my front door and there’s one walking past.

She’s currently roaming restlessly from room to room (living room and kitchen, I don’t live in a multi room mansion), picking up a toy, dropping it, getting another then moving to the next, and intermittently barking at the door to go out and then barking the neighbourhood down, I pick her up, bring her in, rinse and repeat until bedtime.

I have no idea if this is going to get better or if I’m simply destined to be carted off to the local mental hospital having some kind of breakdown. Or lose my job due to inability to get any work done.

Well done if you got to the end of this diatribe, I needed to get it out

@Pineapplemonkey I may have missed some of your posts but why do you need to keep her away from other dogs ? Can you change the routine and take her out as soon as she wakes to burn off energy and tire her out ?

I probably missed a bit! She barks at anything (dog/person) when we go for a walk so apparently I need to aim for her being indifferent to anyone walking past. To be fair, the barking on walks is the least of my worries, it’s the barking at home that’s the issue.

He told me to ignore her barking in the house, I’ve done that this evening and have had to clear up 3 wees and a poo , great.

I’m going to try taking her out in the morning and the afternoon tomorrow, she doesn’t seem to tire though, she often does zoomies when we get back

Does she like a ball ? Can you tire her out that way ? On a road walk my pup will get the zoomies when we get in, an hour walking on the golf course with him running around and jumping over things will properly tire him out. I totally get the indifference thing but maybe she needs to get more used to other dogs and people before she becomes indifferent. It's so bloody hard knowing what's going on in their heads!

Oh @Pineapplemonkey I don't buy it at all, sorry. She doesn't sound understimulated. If anything she sounds overstimulated. Did you check the qualifications of the behaviourist? Anyone can call themselves a behaviourist.

To give an example of our particularly neglectful day today:

Hazel woke up some time before 7am. At about 7:15, I took her for a quick 20 minutes walk with her breakfast - that was using her harness and long line, treats for walking nicely, then some training in the car park, then a sniffy wander back to the house. She came home and went to sleep in her crate (she was shut in her pen, but crate door open). Then she generally mooched, in and out of the garden, until 11:30.

At 11:30 visitors arrived, greeted, then when she got a bit wound up, she was shut in her pen with her lunch in Kong Wobbler, with the door to the room shut. She then settled to sleep in her crate (we have a blink camera). A couple of toilet breaks, but otherwise in her pen much of the afternoon. A carrot to keep her busy in between meals.

Visitors left at about 5pm. She roamed around for a couple of hours, dodging the swipes of girl cat, then in the pen in our lounge for a snooze while we played a game, then on the sofa for an hour.

That's it. She doesn't normally spend as much time in her pen these days, but she was fine with it. So her day has consisted of a short walk, a carrot, playing with big dog, and swipe dodging. She's utterly exhausted so DD2 is getting ready for bed so they can sleep on her bed together.

I guess I'm saying that it sounds like pineapplepup has had over an hour of toy playing this morning, a walk, endless toys and chews. But the behaviourist still isn't happy?

Ok, my question would be 'how'?

So, ignore barking in the house. Question: 'How do I know the difference between a bark that needs ignoring and a bark that needs attending to?'

'You need to aim for her to be indifferent to dogs on walks'. Question: 'How do I achieve that?'.

Did the behaviourist definitely sayunderstimulated? Because everything you're saying about her behaviour strikes me as overstimulation. She's barking at everything because she's so alert to it all. She doesn't know what she should bark at, so everything gets it.

Well the behaviourist comes free with my pet insurance so don’t know qualifications but Linked In has this as a description ‘Canine Integrative Wellness Consultant, incorporating behaviour, nutrition and holistic health’
A lot of what he said rang true but I’m struggling with the under stimulated label, I’m sure some people are lucky enough to not have to work and can dedicate every waking hour to their pup but sadly, I’m not one of them.

I might (after Christmas now obviously) see if the trainer I used before can help. They’re local and it lists behaviour related qualifications on their website. I think it might be easier if someone can actually come to the house, it’ll just cost me a small fortune. Although she acts like an angel when other people come round. But I have done a couple of videos of her behaviour, I swear people think I’m exaggerating! If I hear ‘but look at her, she’s so cute/pretty, I don’t believe she could make so much noise’ one more time………

This is a really good guide to helping your dog become more indifferent to other dogs. It takes time and consistency, and patience to take the tiny steps, but it works.

www.adolescentdogs.com/post/how-to-focus-your-dog-around-distractions

Oh @Pineapplemonkey I can totally see that as being stressful. Fluffpup let's out a single bark maybe once a week and it scares the bejaysus out of me. Nothing I've done - she's just not a barky breed.
I think that barking is a self rewarding behaviour though - I can sort of see why your behaviourist said she was under stimulated but it's a clumsy way of saying it. Apart from barking what does she really like - for Fluffpup it's competitive tugging games or food. Could you reward her that way, instead of her self rewarding? And completely don't give her any attention positive or negative when she barks. Just walk away. I know this means you might have more accidents. Maybe do more frequent shorter pee walks instead. If you can get her to use her nose - which I know you've been doing it would focus her on something else and licking. Fluffpup is a disembowler so her third favourite thing is shredding cardboard boxes.
I'd also speak to your vet. Just in case - they might also suggest some anti anxiety measures and give her a check over.
If you are anywhere near Scotland I'd take her for the day to give you a break. I don't have a barky dog but I have very noisy preteens so I'm pretty immune to it.

And you’ve hit the nail on the head, I don’t know how to distinguish between her genuinely needing to go out to toilet and her just wanting to go out to bark. If I ignore them all, I get accidents (and she is toilet trained, she’s barking when she needs to go, but she is a puppy and can’t hold it long) if I go out every time she barks, I’d be literally going outside every 5 minutes all day and she’d be barking in the garden for 90% of the time outside

‘Canine Integrative Wellness Consultant, incorporating behaviour, nutrition and holistic health’

Well that's a whole lot of word salad. A big Google suggests no qualifications as such. He got a tricky puppy, so decided to learn dogs and become a dog whisperer. He's worked for a couple of places over the years, and now works for your insurance company.

Aw thank you for the sweet offer, sadly I couldn’t be much further from Scotland, I’m Dorset based 🤣
I was actually thinking of phoning the vets in the morning to see if it’s worth taking her in for a checkup, just in case she’s masking some kind of issue.

She likes food, chewing and playing fetch. To be fair, there’s very little she isn’t enthusiastic about doing, she a ball of excitement most of the time, just sadly barking is at the top of her list

Which is why I think I need to pay the local trainers who already know Pineapplepup pre barking phase!

Do you know what I'd do @Pineapplemonkey? (I'm not qualified in any way, but common sense is king).

I'd spend one day writing down her behaviour. Not trying to modify it, but just noting it. Intervening for sanity as you need to.

Then you'll write down what time she got up, when she ate, when she had a drink, when she went outside, and when going outside resulted in a wee or a poo.

Once you have that, you can look it over and think 'Ok, it's at least 1½ hours between pees, and 3 hours between poos.

So you let her out, she does her wee/poo, then you know that for the next 1 hour, any barking isn't toilet barking. After an hour, if she barks, out for toilet. Then the next hour or so, no going outside for barking.

There has to be a middle way between letting her out every time she barks and not responding to barks at all.

You're right Lougle, that's what I need to do! It's just unfortunate that we are coming up to a week of non routine, but on the plus side, I'll be at my parents house a lot and she behaves like the puppy I want her to be in their house. I will also up her walks and see if that makes a difference, maybe one short lead one and one off lead where she can run and sniff lots

Interesting that she's different at your parents' house. What is different there?

Hopefully you'll get a bit of a break at your parents house - will be interesting to see if she barks there too. I know what it's like to be the sole adult at the start. I cried at everything - even at missing the front garden, you just don't get a break at all. It's so hard as you just want the best for them but you can't understand their communication at the start (or at least I couldn't)
You will get a lovely companion that you don't have to share in the end though.
Had to google where Dorset was (I was brought up in Northern Ireland in my defence) and nope, sorry, not legging to the other end of the world! Hopefully the vet will help you - even if only to tick it off the list.

Happy Christmas from RiverPup!

Merry Christmas from Maggie!

And from Hazel 🎄