Puppy Survival Thread - for old and new pups heading into winter

[Lougle]

A thread to continue our journey with our puppies as we head into winter.

If you're new to having a puppy, jump straight in.

@Lougle i read that as she has had the puppy for 6 weeks?

@Sloupann i really empathise. I have had Maggie 9 weeks today and I’m still not sure that I love her. I’m very fond of her. She is a good pup. I miss my nice old life and the nice walks and adventures with my dog seem a long way away. I think mumsnet can be a bit toxic around dog ownership and all these things you must never do. We are human, they are dogs. There’s bound to be days where we don’t do it right. I think I expect too much of her and of me sometimes. It’s easy to compare your situation to everyone else as well, but try not to. The way I got /am getting through it is to think of my biggest problem/issue and dealing with that. It was our walks- I needed to walk even if she didn’t and she was refusing so I bought her a better harness, I bought her a coat, I took her out on the long lead, I stopped trying to walk her in the morning when my road is busy with cars and children (we have a school on our road)
this week it’s the Christmas tree and the constant bauble theft - so I have followed lougles advice and put a cage around it.
one thing, one day at a time.
keep posting on here, we all understand exactly how hard it is, I promise 🌷 🐾

Apologies @Sloupann I read it as 'from 6 weeks!'

@Sloupann it will get easier. Sometimes we need to step back to see the progress. It helps me to remind myself that if Hazel isn't doing what I want her to, it's either too hard, she isn't ready, there are too many distractions, or we're too close to whatever is distracting her. That gives me lots of things I can change in moments to help her succeed.

Sorry! Wasn’t clear! She was 8.5 weeks old when we got her, we’ve now had her for 6 weeks! (She’s 14.5 weeks old now)

@thenewaveragebear1983 I think that’s it, all the things (stupidly) I’m excited about are a long way off. I feel very silly for not realising that. I know it’ll take time, it’s just so tough feeling so awful in the meantime and know me being so upset is bringing stress to my partner. She’s such a lovely dog, trainer is so pleased with her. I just wish she was someone else’s lovely dog (and I hate myself for thinking that)

@thenewaveragebear1983 I think I've cracked the settling thing. It will take nerves of steel though. So, mat goes on floor. Wait for them to go to it and offer any behaviour. Treat but don't say anything. Then, only treat if they sit or lay down. Again don't say anything. Once they're laying down, drop treats occasionally on the mat. If they jump up, fine, but only give the next treat if they're laying down. Then change the criteria to only if they're on their hip in a relaxed state. No eye contact, no cues, no words, no praise. It's just a case of 'oh I'm settled and I'm getting treats....how weird.'

Big dog and Hazel were playing relentlessly today, so the trusty pen has come out in the lounge to give them both a bit of respite.

I've had Pineapplepup nearly 10wks, and good god I have cried and despaired over this puppy, still do some days if she's particularly awful. You just need to keep on reminding yourself on how far you've come and celebrate the littlest wins. Someone at work yesterday asked if I have considered getting another puppy to keep her company, oh how I laughed 🤣

I'm currently sat at the kitchen table working (or supposed to be at any rate) and pup has just settled down and gone to sleep on my feet, this is what we've been aiming for and she's definitely calming down, this is todays win. Incidentally I have no idea why she insists on sleeping on the hard floor whilst her bed is next to her, puppies make no sense at all.

I forgot the picture!

Well, I moved on Friday and it's still somewhat chaotic here.

We have had two wee accidents because I was preoccupied with trying to find some order in the chaos but otherwise Bertie has taken to the garden very well and I've started to go out with him without the lead on and telling him to be busy, which he has. I'm there with him but not up close. He has also got the hang of the patio doors and today went to the door to let me know he needed a wee (at least that is my take on it). He LOVES the space in the house and the room to zoomy when the mood takes.

Is it ok to not always have him on the lead to toilet him in the garden now? He's 4 months on 23rd December.
Also - he really doesn't like his crate once he's awake so in the very early morning I've been taking him for toiletting and then leaving him to decide whether he wants to go back in the crate - what he's been doing is choosing his donut bed and settling in that and sleeping til the very decadent hour of 7.30am - still in the bedroom with me but just not in the crate. Downstairs he sleeps where he feels he wants even though the donut bed moves to whereever we are whereas the crate is too heavy and clunky to keep carrying up and down stairs (especially for an old codger like me).

Trainer comes on Monday for the first time, yay!!
We've been to the local pet and garden centre for coffees and he gets a ton of attention from everyone.

Moving with him has been a bit destablising for me, especially with how to do things now we aren't confined and I've lost my way a bit, am exhausted, and sometimes it's all I can do to just sit and be a bit 'blank' for a while.

Pineapplepup has never been in the garden on a lead, she'd think I was mad if I tried that. I just boot her into the garden and she goes off and does her thing. I stand and watch from behind the closed doors- in the warm! My garden is completely surrounded by 6ft fences and walls though so entirely puppy proof.
She's out in the garden at the moment pottering around and trying to figure out how to get through the wire fencing I've surrounded the flower beds with to stop her digging. She spends a LOT of time thinking about that.........

@Lougle thank you, I will try that. She won’t even lie down on command, I don’t know why but she just stubbornly refuses to do it, choosing instead to stretch her neck out and bend her elbows at the oddest angle to get the treat/lure. It’s truly a sight to behold. So I think we need to work on that first!
we have puppy school tonight. I feel like this week she’s regressed, not improved. I don’t know if it’s just that everything is so totally exhausting this time of year, or just a development thing on her part.

interestingly , now my cage is up round the tree and has not once even gone near it this morning.

@thenewaveragebear1983 you need to wait her out and not give the treat until she is doing what you wanted her to do. Ask her once. If she doesn't do it, lure into position. If she doesn't do that, no treat. I made that mistake by accepting a 'paws and chest on the floor and bottom in the air' "down". I got told off at training class and they said that unless her bum is on the floor, no treat. She got it within a minute or two once I waited it out.

@thenewaveragebear1983 re: the cage - are you sure she's not channelling her inner cat?

@thenewaveragebear1983 I read your post again and I don't think she's being stubborn re. cues. She's probably just learned that stretching her neck and balancing her paws is enough to get the treat. We can so easily think we are teaching one thing but be accidentally teaching something else. E.g. Hazel is still quite small, so if I don't bend down properly (lazy) as she walks, I will be teaching her to jump up for a treat as she walks.

interestingly , now my cage is up round the tree and has not once even gone near it this morning. That's because she was just being opportunistic. Now that the cage is up, she'll choose to grab something that is readily available to her.

@Lougle the puppy classes have us sort of slowly moving a treat down from nose to paws to sort of lure them down to the lie down position and treating as you go. The elbows out/neck stretched thing is a mid way version of lie down.

I’m struggling quite a lot with the constant demanding treats. I mean, literally all day. When she’s not in her crate sleeping, she is lunging and biting at me, unless she has licky mat, carrot, Kong… it’s not sustainable and it’s really wearing me down. I asked the dog trainer and she’s basically said no treats on my desk, do specific training with her but not to give in to her demands (I guess she had trained me- she does something naughty then stops, or I give her an alternative command which I then treat). It’s very hard when I am with her all day and trying to work. the cage round the tree is for safety more than anything, if she crunched a bauble she could be really hurt.

todays the first day I’ve thought ‘I can’t do this much longer’ - I’m exhausted, I’m stressed at work, I’m stressed by Christmas and everything I have to do. It’s not the dogs fault I know. I’ve left her downstairs with dh and I’m going to have a bath and go to bed.

"@Lougle the puppy classes have us sort of slowly moving a treat down from nose to paws to sort of lure them down to the lie down position and treating as you go. The elbows out/neck stretched thing is a mid way version of lie down."

Does she know how to lie down? Has she successfully got to the point of all four paws on the floor, resting on her hips and her elbows, with her bum on the floor? If she has, then I wouldn't be treating her for anything less. She should, at the very least, be able to follow the treat all the way down to the ground. I would crouch in front of her, bring the treat down low under her nose, and then move your hand down to the floor. Hold the treat and don't give in to any pawing, any sniffing the treat and trying to nibble it out of your hand, nothing. The only time you release that treat is if she is actually lying down. Then big praise, whoops, awesome dog you are! She has definitely learned that it's good enough to crouch.

It's a bit like when you do a recall. If the dog learns that running to you, grabbing the treat, then running away is ok, then they don't actually come back, they just smash and grab. You have to move your hand towards you as they come, so that they have to come right close to you to get the treat. Then treat and, ideally, send them off with an 'Ok' so that they don't just get put back on a lead if they come to you.

It's hard work but you will get there. We all will.

@Lougle she does lie down, but she doesn’t know it’s lie down as we haven’t got as far as a command yet. She does not lie down by choice, I’m not joking when I say that in the entire time she was out of her crate today, she did not lie down once. She sits a lot, but very rarely lies unless she’s in her crate, even when her bed is there for her. She seems very busy and restless all the time.

@thenewaveragebear1983 is she from working lines? Does she have any FTCH suffixes in the pedigree names of her ancestors? She does sound busy.

I think she is from working lines, and definitely has the ‘American’ look rather than the show look. I’ll check her papers for the other.
to be honest, I think it’s a bit of genetics but also a bit of new owner naivety, maybe I’m conditioning her to be busy because I’m not really sure what to do with her. I desperately need a place she can go and be alone, I don’t have this, I bought a pen but we haven’t used it and I don’t have the space or capacity to start using it now with Christmas stuff everywhere. After Christmas I’m going to move my office upstairs and give her my current office so she can have a quiet room.

I just checked her papers, she does have some ancestors with FTCH but only from 5th generation and further back. I don’t know what that actually means?

It means 'Field Trial Champion'. Those dogs won competitive events for the fastest time to retrieve, etc. It means she's from working lines.

FTW - Stands for 'Field Trial Winner'. A dog that has actually been placed first/won a 'Field Trial'. FTCh - Stands for 'Field Trial Champion'. A dog that has won at least three days' worth of Field Trial 'Open Stakes'.

I think for show lines, things like SHCH is Show champion.

@thenewaveragebear1983 just wondering what you're doing for exercise out of the house? Our 3 year old GSP is from Australia (that's where we lived) and was from a show/agility breeder. Right from the off was extremely busy, getting her into a sit was hard but a down was a flat no. I struggled with her constant need to be doing something and refusal to rest. I tried capturing calm and place training but the rate of reward had to be very high, I never managed to get it down. A friend who's a vet put me in touch with a gundog trainer who did some pack walks nearby. We took her to see him at 4 months old, he let her off the lead (I was horrified) and she just hung out with the older dogs for an hour and didn't bugger off. I'd been keeping to the 5mins/month rule but the trainer pointed out that's for on-lead walking. Off lead she running some of the time, sniffing some, playing a bit, ie she was regulating it. After those hour long sessions she was much easier at home - she'd rest and was easier to train. I remember when she was little watching other puppies stick close to their owners and choosing to sit or lie down and being gobsmacked! My girl would never offer those behaviours. When we brought her to the UK another breeder looked through her pedigree and she's got hard German and UK working lines 2 generations back. I follow a UK gundog trainer now (Aytee GSPs) and she doesn't train a down in any of her dogs, whistle stops are in sitting position and you can capture calm that's not a down. So I don't feel so bad that at 3 years old she won't get into a down on command, she'll hold a sit stay for as long as I ask her to though. Our current puppy is nowhere near as busy, at 3 months she'd voluntarily sit-stay and lie down. She'll lie at my feet when she's got nothing better to do. She also gets an hour off-lead most days with my 3 year old dog. She's not running anywhere near as much as the older one though and chooses to sit next to me quite frequently. Anyway this isn't particularly helpful and very rambly but I just wanted to say I've had a very busy dog and it's hard work and very draining, and not necessarily something you're doing but largely temperament. Once you find an outlet for their energy things get easier.

Thanks @Lougle and @BleakGarden

she is ok at off lead recall, I’ve only really dropped the lead on walks for a week or so. I put her in the car and went to the woods this morning but she was on lead as it was new. We do have a 10m lead, it’s too long though/too heavy, I’m going to order a 5 today. When I used it at the park last weekend, as bleakgarden said, she actually didn’t go too far.

thanks both, I do feel a bit better today about it all, I was quite frazzled and stressed yesterday. After our walk this morning she then lay, albeit for mere seconds, on her bed on the floor but then got up to start woofing at the window. But little baby steps!

Sounds promising! I hope today is a bit less stressful. Sniffing in woodland is a favourite activity for my dogs. We've been drilling recall from day dot with pup because my older dog would be fine in a group of dogs, but solo she'd sometimes choose to ignore me when I called her in. Pup is more of a Velcro dog, she always recalls to whistle or the verbal cue. At 4 months I still only let her off in enclosed fields, or places I am confident she can't get into trouble.