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The doghouse

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Original poster

Dog adolescence! Help!

29 replies

Sunflowers765 · 13/09/2023 10:29

My dog is 13 months old and is in full teenage hormonal mode!
Won't listen, obsessed with sniffing everything, snapping and growling at other young male dogs, obsessed with girl dogs back ends. I currently can't let him off the lead in case he gets into a fight.
I'm sticking to basic training at home as he's been kicked out of training classes currently due to his complete inability to focus on anything except the other dogs and sniffing everything..
He's a bit nervy so I don't want to castrate in case he's worse..
I need to hear success stories!! please tell me it gets better!!

OP posts:

Thosesummernights · 13/09/2023 10:35

Have you spoken to a trainer? I would do this first - get someone in to do 1-2-1 with you again at home and then out and about. We had to do that with our when they were 14 months but then did get them done and it was fine, had no issues and it made a big difference to their behaviour.

Sounds like you’re on the right path anyway, so hopefully this will just be a phase you can address. It’s not helpful being kicked out of training class. Clearly you’re there for support so to just let you go without any advice doesn’t sound like a great trainer at all.

twistyizzy · 13/09/2023 11:19

Back to basics of strict obedience + impulse control.
The following books are fantastic:
Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson
Mission Contril by Jane Arden

Then depending on the breed: The Pet Gundog by Lez Graham.

If it is a working breed then highly recommend gundog training as these breeds need a job to do (HPR, spaniels, retrievers etc).
Sounds like you have been going to a not-great training group. A good trainer would help you get the attention and focus of your dog instead of throwing you out of the group!
Research breed appropriate training classes within your area, not just general puppy/dog training groups.

Thosesummernights · 13/09/2023 11:31

Just to follow up with recommendations made by @twistyizzy Total Recall is an excellent book! I keep it by my bedside for ideas to keep the training going as they get older.

Would also second gun dog training. It really taps into the dogs natural instincts and abilities and give them focus.

Original poster

Sunflowers765 · 13/09/2023 11:46

To be fair we sort of left the training because it was pointless! I just spend the whole time sitting on a bench with my dog watching other dogs do rally and agility! Which is an expensive way to sit on a bench!!
My dog isn't treat focussed when he's hyped up and wouldn't even look at me for warm chicken or steak! So I decided to leave classes for a bit.

OP posts:

twistyizzy · 13/09/2023 11:50

@Sunflowers765 that's why you need the help of a proper breed appropriate trainer who understands techniques to help you engage with your dog. Lots of dogs, including working ones, aren't treat focused so you have to work harder but it is easily doable once you have a good trainer and know the techniques.

twistyizzy · 13/09/2023 11:51

Oh also, getting a dog hyped up is the worse thing. You need their arousal levels to be low in order for training to take place, this is where impulse control comes in

Original poster

Sunflowers765 · 13/09/2023 11:54

@Thosesummernights @twistyizzy
I've got total recall book it's great and his recall is actually great with whistle but I've lost confidence to let off lead in case he gets into a fight! I'm just doing decompression walks on lead for now, and there are some quiet places he can go off lead, but a month ago he was playing nicely with different dogs in the park woods beach etc, and that seems to be a pipe dream now 🥲 I'm just sad that he's so challenging and worried he'll never be the chilled dog I would like him to be. I know he's only young, but my last dog (same breed) was so easy and placid...

OP posts:

TheInterceptor · 13/09/2023 11:54

Isn't there a form of temporary chemical castration so you can see how it affects your dog before deciding to go ahead?

Original poster

Sunflowers765 · 13/09/2023 11:56

@twistyizzy my boy is currently too hyped to take a treat when he's walking down a quiet pavement outside our house! Apart from never leaving the house not sure how I can stop him being hyped up!

OP posts:

twistyizzy · 13/09/2023 11:57

@Sunflowers765 what breed is he?
Honestly you need to go right back to basics ie like he was an 8 week old pup. A few weeks of that and he should improve.
You need to dissociate your feelings and concentrate on the dog you have before you. Dogs pick up on our emotions and you need to stop comparing him to your previous dog as this will impact on how you interact with him. They are individuals each with their own personality, same as children. You wouldn't expect each child to be a replica of another one.

Original poster

Sunflowers765 · 13/09/2023 11:57

@TheInterceptor yes there is and I'd definitely try that before the snip!

OP posts:

twistyizzy · 13/09/2023 11:59

@Sunflowers765 that's why you need help from a good trainer. If your dog is too hyped just going down the road then that's too far/much for him at present. Instead of walks spend that time training in the garden ie sit/stays, impulse control around treats/toys etc, breed appreciate activities eg search/find/retrieve etc

twistyizzy · 13/09/2023 11:59

@Sunflowers765 but this behaviour isn't due to hormones. Castration hardly ever improves behaviour, only training can do that.

Original poster

Sunflowers765 · 13/09/2023 12:02

@twistyizzy yes I know you're right and that's what I'm doing with training. Lots of basic sit, drop, heel etc. we've been sitting in a quiet park watching the world go by til his calm.
I know I shouldn't compare him to my previous dog but the fighting was a big shock to me and it's taking me time to come to terms with it.
I put a lot of research into choosing him , and I thought I knew what I was doing with bringing up a young dog. So I feel bad that either my choice was wrong, or that I've spoilt him somehow. Or I really don't know what I'm doing and I won't be able to fix him. 🥲

OP posts:

twistyizzy · 13/09/2023 12:03

@Sunflowers765 but what is the breed as this will be relevant?

Original poster

Sunflowers765 · 13/09/2023 12:04

He's a working lab

OP posts:

Thosesummernights · 13/09/2023 12:04

It’s so disheartening when these things happen, and it can feel like one step forward, two back.

Start back training in the house where there are no distractions. Then start in the garden, then the drive way and then venue out. Have you got a dog park locally you can hire? I still hire ours once a week as it means I can do lots of the lead without worrying about other dogs.

And then find a proper trainer to come with you. I get it. When you’re on your own, it feel better to avoid sticky situations and that’s fine. My ideal dog is one that does care about other dogs. Isn’t seeking them out to play etc. Our lab isn’t very treat focus but she is us focused so we make sure we are lots of fun when she does what she’s been asked.

Good luck, I’m sure with the right professional help you’ll get there.

twistyizzy · 13/09/2023 12:08

@Sunflowers765 so he is feeling his power now then!
Highly recommend gundog training, working labs are big powerful dogs used to go through deep shrubs etc. He could quite easily be bored, gundog training will help calm him as he will be using his brain + natiral instructs plus it will teach you how to train your dog.
However you need to get on top of this ASAP.
I keep on saying that working dogs need a job to do otherwise they can start to exhibit unwanted behaviours and this really does prove my point.
It is fixable but you need a proper gundog trainer and give your dog a job.

drinkuptheezider · 13/09/2023 12:09

Sniffing can be harnessed, scentwork will be your friend. Look up trainers doing scentwork.

Original poster

Sunflowers765 · 13/09/2023 12:10

His behaviour is

Pulling on the lead to get to the next sniff
Obsessed with girl dogs back ends ( and usually I get " oh she's due in season any day"
Having a fight with another entire male ( the aforementioned girl dog right next to them)
When sniffing or other dogs around won't take a treat.

He's brilliant at recall, being left at home alone ( only left for 1-2 hours tops and I've observed him on the camera- asleep) doesn't jump up, doesn't chew anything, doesn't guard anything, very settled at home. Very affectionate.
So he's not dreadful in every way...
it's the potential for fights that's freaking me out.

OP posts:

twistyizzy · 13/09/2023 12:12

Of course he won't take a treat if he is sniffing. He gets more reward from sniffing than from the treat. Again a good gundog trainer will help will all of this.
When he pulls and you let him continue with the walk then you are rewarding the pulling so it continues.

Original poster

Sunflowers765 · 13/09/2023 12:16

@twistyizzy I've been doing if his lead goes tight we stop and only letting him forwards when it's slack and this is working to an extent. I'd like to reward him when he's not pulling but he's not interested in the reward so it's hard to mark the good behaviour !

OP posts:

twistyizzy · 13/09/2023 12:23

@Sunflowers765 treat based reward systems aren't always effective as you have found out. You can become over reliant on them instead of really focusing on training the actual behaviour.
For the dog just being allowed to progress on a walk is the reward.
If that was my dog I would deal with pulling by stopping all walks and going back to the basics of where heel position is in the garden. Teach heel position off the lead then when that is 100% you add the lead. When it is 100% at home you progress to a 5 metre distance outside your house. When the dog can do 5m without pulling you progress to 10 metres and so on. It can take weeks to just progress to the end of the road once a dog has learned how to pull.
Sounds like the basics of heel walking haven't been taught correctly from the beginning.

Original poster

Sunflowers765 · 13/09/2023 13:42

@twistyizzy so in one post you're saying he's bored and in the next suggesting he doesn't go for a walk for weeks on end.
On one hand keep him in because he's too hyped up and on the other take him into a gun dog training class.
Thank you for your advice I'm sure some of it is great but it's getting a bit judgey and contradictory now don't you think? I really don't need to hear it's all my fault
I'm doing my best, trying ti do the best for my boy, I was hoping for people's experiences and advice but as usual on Mumsnet there's people out there who just want to preach and make the person asking for advice feel small and stupid.

OP posts:

twistyizzy · 13/09/2023 13:48

@Sunflowers765 but physical exercise and mental exercise aren't the same thing. For working breeds mental exercise eg training is as important as physical exercise. 20 mins proper training is as tiring for them as a 1 hour walk.
I am trying to help by offering some personal experience plus have recommended books and getting a gundog trainer.
I think fundamentally you don't understand what I'm trying to communicate because a gundog class will NOT make him hyper purely because it is based on obedience and impulse control. It is actually a low arousal environment.
I have years and years of experience with working dogs so you can take my advice or not it is up to you but I have never been judgey. I'm trying to point out that you may have missed some of the basic building blocks of training and have offered suggestions as to how you can training eg gundog classes.
You obviously don't want my sort of advice so good luck, I hope you get the issues resolved.

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