8 week old puppy underbite

[Xang7654]

So, does anyone have any advice on if this is a common problem and how likely is it to cause future problems, and if you need to declare this for pet insurance purposes? We already feel invested in this puppy and (perhaps naively) feel like we love it already. We were extremely excited to bring the puppy home but now are considering if we should pull out. Should we proceed with the purchase? We can’t help feeling in the back of our mind that we are setting ourselves up for some huge vet bills in the future when we know this could be a potential issue. On the other hand the dog will be a well loved family pet and not a show dog, so are we just over thinking this?

Please don't get a puppy from this person.

Under or over bite they are born with. It won't be covered on insurance and I'd be weary spending money on a puppy that already had an issue. It could be small and cause no issues but it might not be. They don't correct themselves as they grow. Dentals aren't covered in insurance anyway. I'd pull out just from the fact you can't return the puppy if the vet isn't happy with it. So many red flags

Have you decided what to do @Xang7654?

The only returning 50 percent deposit and faulty bite sounds very worrying.
Cash Crop not caring for welfare of mother and pups.

If the bite is bad, what about hip/ elbows
patella probs cost my friend £3000 in a poodle cross.
He bought from untested female that a friend of his had.

Hearts should also be tested.

Thanks all for the comments. Still unsure what to do but leaning towards walking away. Having looked at the contract, it does say in writing that you are able to exchange within 7 days if a defect is found by your vet, which goes against what the breeder says in message. Though she is not working today so will clarify this with her tomorrow.

General consensus from PPs seems to suggest that “licenced” breeder does not really mean anything and is not necessarily a sign of a quality breeder. Is a KC registration more of a mark of a quality breeder, or is this also not really a good/bad mark either way?

It's impossible to have a KC registered crossbreed.

Do you mean the poodle parent is KC registered? If so, all that means is that both its' parents were KC registered - it doesn't mean it's a healthy dog or that it's had any of the required health tests.

I am a vet nurse , we regularly see poor specimens that have been bought because 'the breeder says.....' or simply because they felt so sorry for the little soul , whichever reason if buyers just walked away from these appalling money grabbing breeders who really don't give a shit about what they are churning out and the consequences then there wouldn't be such a market for these scum.
So much heartbreak and costs and sometimes no pup alive at the end of it .
Please think twice and don't buy pups from unknown puppy farm type breeders , a lot of them will have the know how to hide what they are especially to an inexperienced buyer.

We have today spoken to various vets all of which say that an underbite isn’t a problem as long as it’s slight. Even to the point that it doesn’t need to be flagged on insurance as it’s cosmetic only. Every single post is negative, has anyone purchased a puppy with an underbite and the dog being fine and not needing lots and lots of dental work etc?

I wouldn’t be worried. All the puppies teeth are about to fall out anyway, correct or incorrect but has not been permanently established yet. teeth are the least predictable part of breeding anyway.

I got a puppy, the breed club put me in touch with a reputable breeder. The sire won crufts and the Dam has multiple awards. Out of the litter of 7, only ours was undershot when second teeth came through. Doesn’t affect his health at all, just can’t show him.

being undershot Doesn’t mean the breeder isn’t reputable, all show judges and breed clubs will tell you that teeth are the least predictable.

if you aren’t planning to show, it’s very unlikely to be a problem.

The main issue with an under-bite is that it can make your dog more prone to overcrowding and dental disease if it doesn't resolve naturally as the dog grows. Most insurance policies don't cover dental work so it could end up being quite costly. There's also the fact that untreated gingivitis can lead to heart disease.

I would also be concerned about bad breeding. Under-bites aren't common in either poodles or retrievers so I would be concerned about in-breeding and bad practises from the breeder. Do you have the history of both parents and grandparents? Have they had all the relevant health tests for their breeds?

My opinion is that the entire set-up screams "puppy farm" and that you would be a fool to go ahead with purchasing this dog.

The skull and especially the jaw bones in an 8 week old pup are not fully grown, therefore as the pup ages there may be changes to its bite. An underbite could become a level bite, unlikely to become a scissor bite.

Bites certainly change as the puppy grows in addition to losing their puppy teeth and the adult teeth coming through, especially with the upper and lower canines.

With any incorrect bites the future of the adult teeth may cause issues, such as the canines not slotting into the correct part of the gums due to the upper or lower jaw not being in the correct position.

The breeder, licensed or otherwise, is breeding and selling cross breed dogs, there is no breed standard for any cross breed dogs, therefore what is a correct bite? Puppy contracts, including refunds or returning the dog should be something you are happy with, prior to picking or taking the puppy home, in fact a generic contract should be something the breeder details with you well before the litter is even born.

Many dogs ive happy lives with incorrect bites as long as the adult teeth do not cause any damage to their soft pallets, even then the problems can be minor.

You may be better looking at pedigree golden retrievers or poodles, speak to the breed clubs and the kennel club to find reputable breeders.

And underbite wouldn’t bother me.

Paying a puppy farmer for a mongrel is the real issue here.

We don’t believe the breeder is a puppy farm and are confused as to why people are suggesting it is with very little information on the breeder. Aside from the underbite the vet report has come back NAD along with Puppies all fit and well. The Mother of the puppies is the breeders family pet.

A breeder breeds a particular breed of dog. There is no actual breed involving the word “doodle”.

This person is making mongrels, styling themselves as a “breeder” and charging a lot of money for it.

Her contract - you should be able to return the puppy for a full refund if your vet has concerns about it's health.

You also mentioned KC registration - do you mean the poodle parent is KC registered? Because a breeder of crossbreeds cannot be registered with the KC - it's impossible.

The fact that the puppies are crosses. Unlike most of MN I have no issues with crosses but the sad reality is that the vast, vast majority come from puppy farms.

Have you seen this puppy in it's home with mum and littermates? Are you allowed to go and visit the puppies whenever you like? Have the parents had the proper set of health tests required? Do you have the history of both parents and grandparents etc?

Family pet? So a backyard breeder. They are breeding for profit not health. I doubt health tests have been done. You could well have much more problem than teeth.

If you have spoken to numerous vets today on a Sunday then I would take the puppy to one of them rather than ask on a thread or at least take photos to the vets

It would be hard to gauge if the underbite is slight at the age of the puppy but it would need to be seen by the vets to confirm if that is the case

Underbites are not a minor issue in many dogs

You only need a licence if you're breeding three or more litters in a year. At most you'd breed every other season, so that implies that this individual has at least three family pets they're breeding from.

That would be unusual. Not impossible, but unusual. Most people who breed at that rate are either:

1. KC breeders who show seriously, and who are looking to improve the quality of the breed.
2. Churning out puppies for the money.

There can be overlap with those, of course. And there can be grades of good and bad in each. But it's a warning sign. Added to the fact that they're breeding a currently trendy cross-breed. And that they won't refund in full should your vet highlight a major issue. And (I assume, given you haven't met the puppy) that they haven't met you in person, so haven't vetted you properly.

Those are all little red flags that, together, suggest that this person is producing puppies as a product for sale. It may be they're rearing them in good conditions. Or they may not be. But there are enough red flags about this that I would be highly suspicious.

To add, "Many good reviews" also suggests a significant puppy production rate. The breeder of my girls couldn't get many good reviews - she's only bred a relatively small number of pups.

You can check out their council licence online. How many breeding bitches are they licenced for? Are they licenced for multiple breeds? These are all little red flags that should raise alarm bells.

We did meet the puppies (with mother) and spent over 2 hours with them, so no obvious red flags at the time. Conditions seemed good with the puppies well cared for. Met Dad too.

Apologies, I misunderstood.

Did you see any explanation for why they’re producing multiple litters a year beyond it being a profitable business?

They own dad as well?

I have purchased a puppy with an underbite. It was cosmetic and he is 7 now with no issues.

Met the puppy with its Mum which was also a family pet. Also met the puppies dad.
Had previously spoken to a neighbour who had a dog from a previous litter two years earlier from same mum and Dad.

Have had no issues with my dog. Love him to bits. I do wish I had negotiated a discount.

Had two rescue dogs previously to this.

Do they own the dad?

That suggests to me that they're probably just breeding any two dogs together for money. Most breeders travel to find the right stud and pay large amounts in fees to do so.