Collar Vs Harness

[Frenchfancy]

We've been having a discussion on the puppy thread about Harnesses vs collars and I thought I'd ask for some other opinions.

I was avoiding a harness for Frenchpup as I had read that it can cause development problems in shoulders for young dogs. But the more I read the more confused I get. Our old DDog only ever had a collar so even though I'm an experienced dog owner I don't know the answer to this one. Examples of the different things I'e been reading:

For Collar

For Harness

Does anyone have any thoughts/experience?

Sorry I should have specified positive reinforcement reward based rather than aversive/corrective which can too be reward based

Polly, to ultimately train your dog properly surely it needs to know when it is doing good or bad, ie correcting it for bad habits at puppy stage?

@Madbengalmum

Sunshine, let me put it this way. In my experience of having and training dogs over the last 20yrs, i would definitely say that if my dog wanted to misbehave on a harness i would be far less likely to be able to correct said bad behaviour than if he/she were on a collar. I certainly think to teach a dog how to walk properly from a young age is important.

If your dog doesn’t feel secure on a collar then you are using the wrong type of collar. With a 50kg dog, i would have no control whatsoever on a harness.

Doesn't matter which way you put it.

If my dog misbehaves I generally only need to use my words to sort her out. Rarely do I need to pull her. It isn't that she doesn't feel secure. I don't feel secure as I do not want to have to pull or stop her rapidly by her neck. Basically strangling her. Not happening. Sometimes I can't speak quickly enough or at all so a lead is necessary. Obviously.

She knows how to walk next to me off lead. Could be off lead a lot more than she is.

Sunshine, we could go around in circles forever. What works for one doesn’t for another, you will find completely conflicting advice on collars/harnesses everywhere. Also depends very much on the breed traits.

You can. I'm not. I'm happy with what I am doing. My dog is very well trained and well looked after. She is quite safe and I am too. Goodnight.

Our dog has a harness otherwise she gulps for air as she pulls all the time. It's much kinder (I'd hate anything round my neck!)
She does have a comfortable collar with tag for identification.

@Madbengalmum

Polly, to ultimately train your dog properly surely it needs to know when it is doing good or bad, ie correcting it for bad habits at puppy stage?

My dogs do need to know when they are doing right and they are reinforced for the correct behaviour.

I see my job as their trainer to ensure they do not have the opportunity to carry out the "bad" or unwanted behaviour so do not need correcting.

eg walking to heel I will train away from distraction and off lead (if safe) to start with or on a long lead. They will be rewarded for being in the postion close to me with a loose lead.

I've just realised you said french dog as in your used name so may not be a french bulldog but if it is then definitely a well fitting (perfect fit or similar) harness. Your dog will not be 50 kilo or ill behaved muscle so that advice isn't too relevant.

Frenchpup as in my username. She is a Braque d'Auvergne, a type of French pointer. Expecting her to be about 20-25kg. They are a hardy breed with no particular health issues.

Just googled - beautiful! Very deep chested, you probably will have to get a made to measure perfect fit harness or similar. Very trainable I imagine. Only thing I will say is that a longline will be very useful for a gun dog when training recall as they are fast and like to run. A longline cannot be used with a collar.

I’d always train with a collar first tbh, but it’s just personal preference - I can’t be bothered putting a harness on if I don’t need one is all, lol

But if you’ve got a dog that isn’t easy to train to walk on a loose lead, is reactive or obviously is going on a long line, then a harness is better. IMO.

Sorry OP, I just assumed you meant French Bulldog. I’ve just googled a Braque d'Auvergne - what a beautiful looking breed! (Much more so than a Frenchie .)

As a large breed owner I have always felt more in control with a harness than a collar, also it makes more sense your dog if a puller isn’t pulling against their delicate neck but their chest muscles.

i would recommend a perfect fit harness

Both my labs have harnesses and have no problems controlling them.

Perfect Fit harness here. No restriction to movement and no problems with her pulling *caveat.. unless she sees a squirrel in which case frankly neither a collar or harness would stop her...

Our trainer recommended Perfect Fit and while she was learning to walk to heel I could use the front clip as well as the back. She doesn't need that now. Harnesses are much better for the long line stage of training too.
I dislike collar control because it is too easy to pull on the dog's neck. With a harness you have to train your dog to walk nicely rather than relying on throat discomfort.

I would use whatever is safest for you and your dog, particularly whilst you are training; all the worrying about tracheal damage or shoulder restriction is moot if the dog tows you under a bus or escapes and gets itself hurt (or worse) your first or second time out.

As with all training equipment and methods, there is no 'one size fits all' and what may seem too harsh for one dog won't even be noticed by another. Any piece of equipment is equally capable of help, hindrance or harm depending how it's used.

At training we see just as many pups turn up tugging along, goggle eyed and gasping on harnesses as on collars. We also see escapes from whatever is being worn.

Whatever is used, please research it, make sure it fits properly so that it's not too tight or possible to escape from and ideally get professional advice first on how to fit and use it (and I don't mean from the shop selling it!)

To make anti-pulling training easier on everybody, please don't start out on a Flexilead. Save that for later if you must.