Border Collie vs. Working Cocker Spaniel

[Ephigenia]

I’m researching our next puppy, for probably a year or so in the future. I’ve always loved the look and attitude of the working cockers (I don’t like show cockers), and having mostly had collies in the past, am keen on another biddable, trainable breed, but smaller. I’m curious about how the two compare. If I was researching collies, never having owned one, the descriptions would probably put me off! Talk of needing three or four hours of walks a day, constant occupation etc. My reality of living with several borders over the past 35 years is that yes they need training and exercise, but ours have generally been chilled around the house and happy with one off-lead 60 minute walk a day (plus weekly agility training). So if you have owned both, how do the breeds compare?

Had two working cockers in total though not together. love them but bouncy, chewy, stubborn and sometimes less than biddable. Only would fetch if nothing worth sniffing, fox poo was like catnip, smelt bad 2 hours after a groomers visit. Couldn't run in a straight line or walk to heel without sniffing something. I definitely wasn't his top priority once we were outside. Indoors he was glued to my side and devoted, loved both of them.

I have two Border Terriers - and lots of friends with them - like other breeds they are variable, I have a sofa dweller and another who would happily do agility.
You said that you have thought about them but worried about them with other animals. I have friends with chickens etc and all seem fine but mine would never be allowed near.

They are also very independent but again can be trained and excellent at agility.

I now want a Collie after all these messages!! Although with 2 BTs and a toddler my house is already full

Recently said goodbye to our 16 year old border collie.
She was absolutely fantastic.
Years 1-4 she was really high energy, we ran with her, did agility and she loves training.
Years 4-12 she was totally happy to miss walks so long as we played together at home, loved a kong, really happy to chill in another room. Loved chews and was really predictable. Capable of lasting 6 hours alone if we went out for the evening.
Years 12-16 had some health issues but happy to potter around and have more walks where we drove somewhere, she had a play off lead, then back in the car to dry off / warm up and have a good sleep.
She was absolutely delightful.

The only reason I'd not have the breed again was the hair- my other dog is short haired and easily maintained. Her hair used to constantly shed- her undercoat in particular- it was hard work. She was amazing with all of our DC and their friends too from babies through to teen years.

I have a Collie, hes absolutely brilliant. Hes been great to house train, and he is so chilled out in the house. He's very friendly with all other dogs, and he gets on very well with the cat too. He's fantastic with the children. He gets a long walk which often includes playing fetch (which he loves) each day, and a shorter on lead walk at night. We also do training and scentwork most days which he loves too. I look after my friends cocker spaniel occasionally, and he is much harder work. We get back from a 2 hour walk and my Collie goes straight to sleep for a couple of hours, whereas the spaniel is looking for something else to do. His recall is also much more hit and miss. Plus, he has issues with resource guarding which I've heard can be typical in spaniels.

I have a border terrier, only a pup mind, and my trainer said they can be excellent at agility. I got a puppy rather than a rescue border because I have two cats and thought a puppy would be better. She is not great with them, she chases them and barks at them and I dread to think what she would be like with chickens. Don't think I would like to chance it.

My mum and dad had a border collie when I was growing up, we had him for 17 years. He was a wonderful dog, although quite neurotic. I have had friends with cocker spaniels, we had one at work for a few years. I would go for the border collie for the cocker spaniel any day.

Ah thanks for this thread op. I have a collie x working cocker and the Internet has terrified me! Despite having grown up with various collies/collie crosses who have all been easy well-behaved dogs
My dog is gorgeous, so easy to train, doesn't chew, doesn't run off on walks.
He is energetic but not crazily so. But he's only 5 months so we will see. He's gorgeous though

My WCS is a completely different dog inside and outside. If you saw him on a country walk you’d think he never sat still (he never gets too far away from us though) but indoors he’ll curl up wherever I am and sleep for three or four hours. He’s nearly 1.5 now. Separation anxiety yes; terribly chewy puppy stage yes; naughty yes - steals anything not put away though rarely chews them now, but comes and trots past you holding said item to make you play; sits on laptop when wants attention. He likes playing with other dogs but mostly prefers humans he knows - he’s aloof with lots of people and has been scared to point of getting snappy with small children though loves small children he knows (I keep him away from ones he doesn’t know now - was lulled by fact he loves some into not realising he’d be scared of others). Also loving, clever, cuddly, funny - more stubborn than collies (having grown up with two), lot less shedding, loves learning tricks and will do anything for food.

Our first family dog was a border collie when I was 14. People thought we were mad but she was an angel dog. Sweet, playful, sensitive, SO obedient and intelligent.

Wishing you well, I have owned show cockers for the last twenty two years. My last was half show and half working cocker. If it’s of any interest, I’ll describe my and my families experience with them.

They’re very intelligent, to the point I found methods to communicate time to them and they show they understand, happy or glum about events, treat walkies a day away, interested & hopeful response or dinner is still ten minutes away = a fandango of hilarious attempts to hurry time by doing everything but juggle to make me hurry up with serving them.

They have angelic characters whilst also being very quick to watch for anything that pleases or delights me and then, repeating that for the rest of their lives - whether it’s rolling around on their backs, holding their ears up and waiving their little bear legs about or clutching me with front paws and smiling deeply into my eyes to get titbits.

They’re athletic and love to run and leap and bounce endlessly, Tigger like or if it rains they’ll be content with a good play & cuddle. They’re the most charming, charismatic dogs I’ve ever had and I was born into a family with dogs and had them ever since, mongrels, beagles, Alsatians etc.

Show cockers are so very beautiful and endearing but so sweet natured and try to be good to please one. My last girl was one third mafia queen, I will bite my tail if I don’t get a choc drop - bulged staring eye - staring at me, to the only person around who showed care when I broke a leg, b/f was cross and she noticed and tried to help me when I tried to move or get up stairs, she was there aiding me.

Recently I was over tired, late at night and was about to collide with furniture and she shot out of her bed and was there by my side in a heartbeat and saved me from a clumsy, exhausted accident and probably another broken limb. She noticed, before I or my partner saw I was about to collide and crash with said furniture and she at that time was old with cancer and unbeknownst to us, dying but we were always her priority. All breeds in my experience tend to die of cancer in old age, both my mongrels, all, so there is no way to avoid that sadly.

When my boyfriend and I had an argument she would get between us and soothe us both and gently tell us off. We would get smiles from her once we’d made up and only then. She was our companion, baby, nanny and adventurous friend. She loved going rowing in a skiff on the Thames, three men in a boat, her in a tiny life jacket.

She loved every human she met, everyone was a friend she’d only just met and she gave love to every soul she encountered throughout her life. I’d see some disreputable looking male on a street corner that looked like he might mug me and she’d throw her love and attention at this man and he would melt. She brought out the best in everyone, adored by everyone who knew her, including neighbours and vets and nursing staff who all mourn her recent death with tears.

We’re mourning her loss & looking around ourselves to get another some time as she and her forebear were too wonderful to be without, it’s unbearable. So one thing I’d tell anyone looking for a cocker, whether show or working and they’re all wonderful, is according to our research, don’t use the kennel club, who mainly have breeders in their books for whom profit is king, of course there may be a few honourable exceptions. When looking for a dog or pup, check out the spaniel clubs and ask them for reputable breeders who put health above all else.
Good luck to you and your future darling.

If you’re looking for small, biddable and trainable, how about a Shetland sheepdog? I grew up with a border collie and now have a rough collie, I think my heart belongs to the herders. A rough collie is too big for you, which is why I wonder would a sheltie be a good fit?

I wish you lot would stop, I want a collie now!

Me too, my first dog was a Border Collie, I've got a Dalmatian now. Would love, love a little collie bitch next time

Oh, this is all lovely to read but we are struggling a wee bit with our lovely border collie young girl. She has just been expelled by her dog Walker for jumping at/chasing runners and cyclists on her walks and I am too nervous to let her off the lead myself for the same reason. I’ve been doing loads of training on walks but she is fine mostly and then will do it randomly at someone, we play loads of games with a ball or toy in safe places where there is no one around or in the garden and do lots of sniffing on walks, throwing a treat into thick undergrowth etc. She’s nearly nine months and I think she’s pretty good at home, has chewed a bit, especially her own beds etc but isn’t too bad, and can sometimes sleep for 14 hours at night!! (We’re shift workers so tend to get up late!)

Will she grow out of the lunging, or is there something else I should be doing, we are going to puppy class and I have a lovely trainer but we are in north London and I feel most dogs now are little poodle crosses so our little herder’s issues are a bit more unusual.

Hi Mediumred, a thought that or may not be of use.

Have you tried asking the collie’s breed club for advice? There is a ‘border collie breed club of Great Britain’ & am sure if you phone around the various contacts listed, someone there will have some excellent tips on how to help you & teach your darling not to lunge.

Or rather stop your dog lunging, I doubt you have insatiable urges to lunge - well I hope not.

I have a border terrier and would never let her near cats, chickens or any small animals.
I would love a border collie if ( when) I get another dog.

I know this is slightly old thread but I too am loving reading all the collie love on it as there is often quite a lot of negativity on mumsnet.

@mediumred you sound like me. Ours is 7 months now. We struggled a lot with various classes as the trainers seem so used to having Cockapoos and labs to train and my dog being a collie was just a bit different. I have done lots of similar to you with lots of sniffing games etc and I think she is coming along quite well, but we aren’t in full on teenager yet.

We live in Scotland and although we are in an urban area we are close by (short drive) to woodlands. So to be honest I have been avoiding busier areas as like you say the lunging and chasing is hard work. This week I am hoping to teach her sheep ball in the garden as something to do to meet her herding needs. If you look up Christina cass she does quite a good video on it.

Also I had a consultation with the urban herder on zoom which was quite good for some tips. Have you taught her “watch me?” I find this very useful if I want her to focus on me. We use it a lot around cars and bikes etc but it’s not always guaranteed to work. I taught it by sitting in the floor next to her and ever time she looked me in the eye I clicked a clicker and gave her a treat. She caught in quite quick. Pollyroulson on mumsnet is really helpful and would probably have some good ideas.

I haven’t had a collie but my cocker was the best dog I ever had. She was quite happy to lie around for hours, but when you walked her she’d never tire. She could go all day. She had a little separation anxiety and recall was hit and miss. But she was the best dog and wonderful with children.

Just noticed this thread is old, how or why do people resurrect them ?

Oh yes. How annoying

What about a Jack Russell for a smaller dog? Very intelligent, trainable and smaller, mine can be a barky at the door but very much a family pet and easily worn out with some brain work. I’m pretty sure they are good at agility too? Inside mine is mostly a quiet lap dog aged 1. Some people aren’t too keen as they have a bad reputation, just comes down to training.

Thanks so much for the tips, @BlesstheChickens and @Turquoisesol, I’ll definitely look into the collie breed club and sheep ball. You’re right, I haven’t done a really specific ‘look at me’ command, but if there is sometimes something distracting coming into to view I’ll call her, get her to sit, treat her etc but she doesn’t always come.

Actually had a really good session with the trainer today and am feeling a lot more positive about getting her to focus on me through play, we were in an enclosed space but where normally if someone walks by she will run up to the fence to see them, run after them, but we kept her attention on us today, er, less successful when the van drove by but, as the trainer said, that’s a challenge for another day!