Paying a deposit on a dog I haven't seen?

[MrsTumbletap]

So there is a puppy on pets4homes that I have fallen in love with I have been searching for months and months for this type. She is 3 weeks old not ready until April, over half of the litter have deposites on them already.

The breeder looks great on the ad, really thorough description, lots of pictures seems to know her stuff.

Spoke on the phone yesterday again seems lovely, knows about the health testing has all been done, will keep in contact every week, owns mum and dad and has photos of them too. Invited to visit puppies at the end of March.

BUT deposit of £300 needed to secure the puppy before the visit.

What do I do? I don't know her, I haven't seen the puppy. But half of the litter already have deposits on them. I feel like I need this puppy and I'm convinced it will go.

What do I do???

Don't pay.

We got ours through a KC reputable breeder and she wouldn't even take a deposit off me until I had gone to visit and was happy with my choice.
I tried to pay in full when went and reserved our pup, to get it out of the way. She said no, she would only take a small deposit.

Like allwalkedout I carefully followed all the advice and ended up buying a puppy from a puppy farm front
These people are VERY clever now and even we weren’t asked for a deposit before we had seen the puppy

We just bought a puppy and the breeder specified that she would not sell to anyone who hadn't seen the puppies.
She asked us lots of questions and watched us interact with the puppies. Only after she was satisfied did she accept a deposit.

We paid for our dog on the day, when we met him (and took him home same day) I would NEVER put any deposits or pay any money until you've at least seen the dog & relevant parental healthcare checks.

We bought a puppy.

We checked out breeders on the Kennel Club site. Visited one and it was appalling. Ended up reporting them. Contacted another and went on waiting list - litter was smaller than expected so we missed out. The breeder gave us the option of waiting for six - eight months for another litter but also gave us some contacts.

The guy we went with is the epitome of a reputable breeder. We visited once to get to know more about the breed from his perspective and put our name down. Visited again when the pups had been born and confirmed our choice. Third visit just for cuddles and then last visit to collect - and it was at that point that money changed hands.

Yes, we could have had a rescue, as we have done in the past - but we have kids and cats and wanted the right breed for us.

Definitely go through the kennel club, you can put in what breed you want. We bought one from a breeder there, I had a million questions before even arranging a meeting and she answered them all. Provided proper details of father (including photos), shown mother with the puppies, puppies lived in their house, etc, etc.
I wouldn’t ever buy through pets4home, newspaper, gumtree, internet sites, they are just not right.

The breed club is a good place to start but getting a recommendation from them doesn't negate the need for you to do your own research, know what you're looking for and ask the right questions. There's a real issue with some breed clubs really minimising issues in their breeds when it comes to both the severity/frequency of known health issues and lack of genetic diversity within the breed as a whole.

The CKCS is prone to some absolutely devastating health issues and their prevalence within the breed makes them very difficult to avoid. If you're absolutely set on this breed then you really need to make sure any breeder you consider is correctly utilising all available health screening schemes, breeding for a less short/domed skull and keeping the inbreeding coefficient of the litter as low as possible.

As an absolute minimum both parent dogs should have current BVA eye tests, these tests are repeated annually and one should have been done no more than 12 months prior to the dogs being bred from. Both should have been DNA tested for (or be clear by parentage of) Curly Coat/Dry Eye (CC/DE) and Episodic Falling (EF) with at least one parent clear for each condition. It's also vital to find someone who is doing MRIs on their dogs and following the Syringomyelia Breeding Protocol and following the MVD Breeding Protocol. It's important to bear in mind that, vital as they are, the MVD and CM/SM schemes can only reduce the risk of a puppy being affected by either condition, they can't guarantee it so excellent insurance and an awareness of how the conditions present is a must.

It's easy enough to find breeders doing the basic eye tests and DNA tests but unfortunately not so much those taking appropriate steps to avoid MVD and CM/SM.

I'd highly recommend having a read through the following websites:

Cavalier Health

Cavalier Matters

UFAW - Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

Clare Rusbridge (Veterinary Neurologist) - CM/SM FAQ

Understanding the Coefficient of Inbreeding

Why DNA Tests Won't Make Dogs Healthier

^ this x 100000

Borderline that’s a great post. There should be a similar list easily available for every single breed.

Is there a reason you're not allowed to go and see the puppy before you've put a deposit down? It is strange behaviour from them!

The same thing happened to me a few years ago. I phoned to ask about a puppy and was told I had to pay a massive deposit to reserve and I couldn't see it because of "infection risk" to the litter, because they were so young .

I have a Cavalier and utterly adore him and his temperament. However, for the reasons noted above my an OP I just couldn't buy a pup and encourage breeding without all the necessary health checks (and couldn't afford one who had). So I have a rescue cav who now has a heart murmur.

I'm giving him a lovely life he might not have had but feel I haven't contributed to the decline of the breed.

Thank you @BorderlineExperimental I asked her about all the health tests which she confirmed and has the certificates to show, but she said they hadn't been tested for MVD and CM/SM. I specifically asked her that as I know not all breeders to test for it. She said they hadn't been done as the dog has to go under general anaesthetic for the MRI.

But I have said no thank you to her, and reported it on pets4homes as I think it's suspicious, despite how lovely she seemed. She may be reading this! Sorry if you are genuine!

I have and emailed 10 different breeders from the Kennel club and asked to be on their waiting lists.

Please don’t just go off the KC list. They aren’t all reputable breeders. Contact the breed club or society.

Puppies are only purchased by people wanting a toy or status symbol. If you want a family pet and a dog is your pet of choice then what does it matter what breed it is

I’m sorry but as someone who works in veterinary behaviour this is possibly the biggest pile of crap I’ve read on here in a long while.
There is absoloutley nothing wrong with wanting a specific breed, type, puppy or even a specific line from a specific breeder. Rather that than buy something completely unsuitable and be stuck with a dog that isn’t the right fit.

Anybody who knows anything about dogs knows genetics are possibly the single most important thing that makes up a dogs personality. Get that wrong and you could end up with a disaster, I see this day in day out.

There’s no way to accurately predict the temperament of a rescue either, even a puppy. Buying a puppy with parents that are temperamentally sound is one of the best ways to ensure a nice family pet.

I also deal with rescue dogs on a daily basis. A huge proportion of those have medical and behavioural issues too, intact probably more so than well bred animals.

Good breeders are not the issue and I wish the clueless would stop spouting utter rubbish about rescues being the failsafe option.

I am not anti rescue (and have them myself) by the way.

@Maneandfeathers thank you so much I thought that was a complete pile of drivel too!

Thank you all so much!

There is already a Cav in our family as my sister has one that we look after occasionally for a week and I know the temperament and nature of these dogs and I bloody love it!

But from all the fantastic advice on here today I have been in contact with the Cavalier club and spoken to a lovely lady that judges for crufts and boy did she know her stuff! She has given me a number for a litter due in two weeks. I have also spoken to another breeder from the kennel club that wants to meet me (without deposit!) in 3 weeks, her bitch that is due in 9 weeks. He seemed completely clued up, mum has been tested for everything and has the cardiologist reports and is clear of all heart murmurs.

You have all got me one step closer to finding my dog! Thank you.

So pleased you have made contact with supportive breeders. We had one come and visit us when we got our last puppy to check where her boy’d be living.

Really glad to hear you've found what sounds like a responsible breeder. Cavs are lovely - I have a Blenheim boy - but they're so prone to health problems and very popular with puppy farmers. You've done all the right things now.

Sounds like great progress OP . Best of luck for finding your dream puppy - do keep us updated on how you go, and remember that puppy pictures are obligatory as and when you find your pup!

Haven't read the whole thread this is my experience my current dog came from a reputable breeder the chairmen of the breeders club. I was on her waiting list she had investigated every aspect of our lives before we got on that waiting list. When the puppies were born she told me that there a "possible" dog for me but I wasn't allowed to visit before he was 4 weeks old, I was sent pictures of the potential puppy. On our visit we both had the opportunity to say no; we or the dog weren't suitable, I felt very nervous she spend loads of time explaining his pedigree and all the health checks that had been done we met mum she discussed temperament etc saw photos of dad again discussed temperament she talked about his current confirmation although she admitted at 4 weeks old it is hard to tell but she suspect that as he was big puppy for the bread that he maybe over height and thus possibly not suitable for the show ring this was not an issue for us luckily we both agreed everything was ok and I paid 1/8th of the cost of the dog apparently there are lots of time wasters out there, returnable only on her part if something happened to the puppy or she felt that we weren't suitable after all.
7 years later I have wonderful happy slightly over sized for the breed and most importantly healthy dog it was worth the wait and the extensive inquiring into our suitability.

That’s great news MrsTumbleTap!

Congrats, OP! You’re very lucky. We love a specific breed of a cat (and have two already) and when we started thinking about getting a third, we discovered a lot of breeders retired and there were very few litters and long waiting lists within a 100 mile radius of us. There’s a saying among the breeders... if you’re making money breeding, you’re doing it wrong

Hope you find your perfect dog OP.

I belong to a face book dog forum and there was a post on there yesterday about 'breeders' doing exactly what this person was trying to do to you.

It's a scam as pps have said, but apparently a lot of people are being taken in by it and handing over money for a dog they haven't seen and never will.

@pigsDOfly yes I think it was a scam definitely. I have reported but it's still on there so someone may get stung which is awful.

I will definitely keep you all updated and show pictures! I have lurked on this topic for about a year, but I couldn't post as I hadn't found my dog yet.

But I still have loads of questions, so expect many new threads if this breeder lets me have a pup. He seems to have a lot of people waiting so I may not get one. Fingers crossed 🤞🏼 🤞🏼

I had loads of phone calls from people wanting to place a deposit on our pups before even seeing them i said NO, i will not reserve any pups untill you have seen the pups and i have seen you.