Which breed? American Water Spaniel? Lab?

[Cooki3Monst3r]

We're in the very early stages of thinking about getting a dog.

I've had a look on the kennel club website for advice about the right breed but there's so many I'm getting bamboozled!!

The priority is that the dog is great with children, as we have DCs 5 & 3. Non-shedding would be great (!), and not too big.

I think a labrador would be the ideal temperament for us. But the size and therefore amount of exercise required is putting me off. We've never had a dog before so I think perhaps something a bit smaller would be a better starting point for us.

The Kennel Club 'find a breed' tool came up with the American Water Spaniel as a suggestion. This ticks all the boxes for us, but the wikipedia listing for the breed says -

However, members of the breed can attempt to take an alpha dog position, and may also have issues with food possessiveness.[15] They can be stubborn, and mentally are slow to mature from puppyhood

This doesn't sound good to me. It also says -

Some lines of the breed still retain dominant and aggressive temperaments; other than these lines, the AWS gets on well with children and enjoys playing with them.

How do you know whether a dog is from an aggressive live, or a 'likes children' line???

Can anyone offer some advice?

Thanks!!!

Sorry- but I think everyone should get rescue dogs.

That's certainly a very generous and noble thing to do. Perhaps later on in life we will look at doing that. But I can't risk taking on someone else's unwanted dog with 2 small children in the house.

Labradors are a good breed with children, but definitely DO shed. We are about to get a golden retriever and have dc the same ages as yours (as well as a 6 year old) - I am convinced that it is an excellent breed with dc, but they are big, need lots of exercise and shed a lot! I'm sure someone with more knowledge and experience will be able to advise you better than I can, but bichon frises are friendly little dogs and don't shed - maybe have a look at those?

Thanks littlepeas, will do.

I think you'll struggle to find an American Water Spaniel in the UK.

Labs are popular for a reason. Generally agreeable on nature and easy to train. You could so consider the Spanish Water Dog, Portuguese Water Dog or Irish Water Spaniel.

Not all rescues are problem dogs. Many are perfectly lovely, well adjusted pets who find themselves homeless through relationship breakdown, financial hardship, death of owner etc. Breed specific rescue organisations are probably a better bet than general shelters for dogs with known histories.

Sorry, lost a bit of my post...

Wanted to say that all my suggested breeds will need a good amount of mental and physical exercise. As will any gundog type. If lots of exercise is a problem, look at the Toy breeds. A PP has suggested Bichon Frise already. Cavaliers King Charles Spaniel is also a great family dog but you have to find a really good breeder due to the common health problems.

"But I can't risk taking on someone else's unwanted dog with 2 small children in the house."

Maybe you ought to look a bit more closely at rescues before you make that decision. Nothing "noble" about it.................

Nothing wrong with wanting a puppy rather than a rescue. You will hopefully have this member of your family for the next 13 odd years so you want to make sure you get it right!!

We have labradors. They are wonderful, best dogs ever in my unbiased opinion .

BUT

They shed everywhere! They are large and have a very long puppyhood. They are bitey little crocodiles as babies and will chase and pounce on you and it bloody hurts!! They will chew things if given the opportunity. They love the outdoors, in all weather. They will get muddy (at best, eau de foxpoo is considered a delicacy). They will bring this mud/dust/general muck into your house. You will probably want to take out shares in dyson.

As PP said, all of the gun dog breeds need mental stimulation. All dogs do, but i would guess the Toys, bred just to be companions, would need less- but they are not my thing so I wouldn't like to guess.During the first year, physical exercise has to be limited to protect their growing joints, so keeping their brains active with training etc is really beneficial.

If you're in the UK you can pretty much discount the AWS straight away as they're very, very scarce. I can't find any UK based breeders or a UK breed club and there was only one dog registered with the KC in 2013 and 2014 so I presume that one dog was an import rather than bred here.

I think the "up to 30 minutes" exercise a day for the AWS on the KC breed information page is probably a mistake anyway, it seems like a huge under-estimation for the breed.

I agree with LidlMermaid that if you're after small, non-shedding and not hugely demanding in the exercise department you're best of looking at the toy group. That's not to say all the breeds in that group are like that though as some, not my group but I think papillons for example, are quite busy little dogs.

Are you anywhere near Birmingham? There's a Discover Dogs area at Crufts next month (5th - 8th of March at the NEC, there's also a DD event in November in London) where you can meet just about every breed the KC recognises and talk to people who are passionate about them. It's a great opportunity to get some real insight into breeds you're considering.

I really wouldn't completely discount rescues though. Not all rescue dogs come from kennels, plenty of smaller independent rescues only use fosterers so the dogs are always in a home environment, often with families. Most breed clubs also have a rescue side and, again, most tend to use fosterers rather than kennels.

You can actually get rescue puppies from most organisations I think. I've never had any experience with American Water Spaniels. Also, Dalmatians are very good with children.
But if you want something that doesn't shed- Huskies are good.

DH just laughed at me and said huskies shed loads

Labs are popular for good reasons but they do have their downside- as PP have said they shed constantly and see big powerful dogs who need to be trained really well in order for them not to make a nuisance of themselves

We only ever had gundogs (labs, goldens, spaniels) and collies when I was growing up - I knew I wouldn't necessarily be able to provide a collie with enough stimulation so went for a gundog when I was in a position to get my first dog as an adult. We have a Toller (Nova scotia duck tolling retriever) and he is the best family dog ever! Perfect size (about the same as an English springer spaniel), lovely calm temperament, easy to train, brilliant with children, lots of fun out on walks but settles easily at home, doesn't shed too much and looks gorgeous- the only problem is they're still quite rare in the uk (although more common than the AWS)

By the way ignore anything which talks about alpha dogs - it's been proven to be an unscientific load of guff

Hi OP rescues often have puppies if its just a case of wanting to raise a dog yourself. However if you're set on getting a particular breed then look at toy poodles - good size, don't shed, smart, trainable and usually nice temperaments.

In terms of safety with the DC this is as much a case of training your DC as training the pup - make sure its not constantly mithered and can relax when it needs to. Sophia Yin's website has some good resources on this

Thanks all. Some great pointers. (no pun intended!!)

Basildon a Toller was something I was thinking of!

After a mooch around the kennel club website, I've come up with an initial short list of -

Spanish Water
French Brittany
Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever
Catalan Sheepdog

This is all a bit speculation at the moment though. We're hoping to move at the end of the year so it would have to wait until then. And DH isn't convinced. I'm not sure I am either. It's a big decision, isn't it. We're going to do some doggy sleep-overs first.

Um, all the ones you've listed are pretty hard to get hold of, shed and are going to need the same amount of exercise if not more than a lab...

How much walking are you going to be able to do? Why were you thinking about non-shedding? How much grooming are you willing to do?

What do you want from a dog? something lively and playful, or something more laidback and cuddly? How much training do you want to do, just the basics or more than that?

Can you get to crufts?

You can meet virtually every breed there is at discover dogs and their owners/breeders Will be happy to answer all your questions.

All of those breeds are highly active and will need lots of exercise.

I do know several very reputable breeders of SWD that I could give you details of if you want to find out more about the breed.

How about a Bichon? They are a water spaniel crossed with a poodle. Non shedding and fab with kids.

Why do you want an unusual breed?

I think you need to sit down and make a list of your requirement- including how long you have every day to walk. We have a border terrier and ideally she should have a hour a day- and longer if possible. Otherwise she gets restless and puts on weight. We really notice if we've missed a day or two.

I'd echo the above sentiments about labs shedding. They are unbelievable for it.

You seem to be veering towards the working breeds - be aware that they will need a lot of exercise and training to keep them manageable around the house. They are bred to work so need to be stimulated mentally and physically.

And I also agree with the PP who said that the alpha dog thing is rubbish - any individual dog within any breed has the potential to be dominant as they all have their own personalities.

In terms of dogs liking children or being aggressive, you need to find out (and see for yourself) the parents. That will give you an idea (but no guarantee) of what their personality might be like. As I said above, all dogs are individuals and have minds of their own, you can't guarantee what one will be like so you have to give yourself the best chance e.g. select the breed carefully and see the parents.

And whatever breed you end up with, be prepared to put a lot of time and effort into training it. No dog comes ready trained and you get back what you put in. If you want a dog that is a pleasure to be around and knows it's place you need to train it from an early age to show it what is and isn't acceptable. If you want a dog that thinks it owns the place and does as it likes, meaning that people think twice before visiting you ... you get the gist

Cocker spaniel. We have one and a golden retriever. Both great with our 4 dcs but Our cocker doesn't shed. I adore him.

I'm another rescue fan, I wouldn't have anything else. You say you wouldn't have a dog from a rescue, but bear in mind that most rescue dogs are just puppies that people took on without experience... My two rescues are labs. People typically think labs are placid, easy dogs, when a lot of them are bred to work, and are hyper. Our smaller, hunting type lab was 14 months when we got him, he had had four homes previously and run rings round them all. He is yellow and probably won them over with his Andrex puppy looks then taught them that handsome is as handsome does! He just needed a ton of exercise and training. The show type lab is extremely strong, our bigger lab weighed 7 stones when we got her, now 6, and could pull my stepson right off his feet until he was about 12.

I'd go for something smaller. A cocker type or cross of that size. Don't read too much into typical personalities, they are all different and how they are handled usually has a much bigger effect on the dog that they become.

And I'm sorry to harp on, but do please think a lot about whether you want to encourage breeding by buying a pure bred puppy. There are plenty of puppies available from rehoming places- many of them are breed specific. I understand what you mean about not wanting an unknown adult dog- we only took ours because we were absolutely certain about her history. But a well socialised adult dog may well be a much better bet for you than a puppy- puppies are lovely but a real pain in the neck. It's just like having another baby in the house, and you have two young children already. Some breeds are puppies for a very, very long time. Are you absolutely sure you want another being that cries at night, isn't toilet trained, chews things (including people) because it's teething, and which can't be left.........?

You need a retired racing greyhound in your life

V little exercise required.
Gentle with kids.
V short hair so shedding/grooming is minimal.
No drooling.
Near to no 'doggy' smell, even when wet.
Walk well on a lead - don't pull.

They have a high chase drive and struggle to 'read' other dog breeds body language, but can be socialised successfully. They are great with each other - I have never seen 2 GH fight. They are not v territorial or protective of their owners which means they are find with postmen and visiting children. My guinea pigs are securely locked up so they don't end up as lunch….

Yes, I am in the first flush of love for the young GH we are currently fostering and keeping if I have anything to do with it

I agree with Hak, don't dismiss a rescue dog out of hand.
I grew up with a number of rescue mutts and they were fabulous family dogs. Find the right dog for you - many dogs in rescues have a well-known history. I have young children and would not have wanted to commit to a stray that nothing was known about. I also wanted a young adult and not a puppy - puppies are cute as anything, but hell on earth to live with (I have 4 kids - that was quite enough night time wakening and poo removing for me, thank you v much).

AFAIK more children were bitten by labs in the UK in the last year (?or 2013) than any other dog breed simply because they are popular family dogs (and they are fabulous dogs, no doubt about it), but they are dogs, and big ones at that.
Have a look at the dog stress thread - I found it v enlightening and I had considered myself reasonably dog-savvy.

I didn't realise I did "want an unusual" breed.

I don't come from a doggy family so know very little. All I've done is go through the kennel club 'breed finder' and ticked 'upto 1 hour' rather than the 'more than 2 hours' exercise option and non-shedding.

I would really like

1. non-shedding simply because I cannot abide pet hair over everything. We've had a cat I couldn't get rid of the bloody stuff.

1. A loving, friendly, playful temperament for the kids. Easy to train.

1. Medium rather than big. I think we'd be looking at an hours walk in the mornings, plus a short amble for 'business' in the afternoon. Maybe a bedtime trip out?

1. Puppy training I'm happy with, but would like something that learn to heal, sit, return relatively quickly. I'm not bothered about tricks.

My Dad has two cockapoos who my children both adore. I think it would be nice for us to have a dog for ourselves.

All those breeds I listed upthread are down as needing 'up to one hour' exercise a day and non-shedding on the kennel club website. The Toller is stated on wikipedia as being particularly patient with children.

I had considered the labradoodle too, but would feel nervous about going for a non kennel club crossbred. Should I be, or not?

I was hoping to narrow down a breed short list first, then go and look in to more detail.

The crufts thing sounds brilliant. Realistically, I think we're probably looking at a min of a year before getting a dog. We've got a house move and a new school coming up. It would be good to go to that next year.

Thanks for all your help everyone!!