I think I know the answer already but do Pets4Homes use puppy farms?

[AllergicToNutters]

My friend has pointed me in the direction of pups available on Pets4Homes several times now. I have told her that I am sure they are farmed pups but she is convinced they aren't (she got a Bichon Frise through them). Her pup has had no health issues and seems gorgeous and well socialised which is why she is convinced I am being overcautious and a bit 'precious' about the origins of any dog I will bring into our family. Out of curiosity I rang a 'breeder' this evening who is selling a litter of yellow lab retrievers for £195 each!!!!!!!! I asked a few pointed questions and he was clearly a twat and only in it for the money. Well, that's the impression I got anyway. But I don;t have any real facts. Another friend has bought a labradoodle from them about a year ago and she seems fine too. Anyone got any real information on them?

It is not cost thatbdeters me from health testing it is the stress a puppy undergoes to have all the tests done.

Health tests are done on adult dogs prior to their being used for breeding, not on puppies (although there are various conditions in certain breeds which pups can and should be screened for). In fact hip and elbow scoring can only be done on dogs over 1 year old.

I'm also pretty sure ham doesn't cause epilepsy

How can you claim to be an ethical breeder and not know that health tests are done on the adult parents before deciding to breed them, not on the puppies?

The whole point of health testing is to remove any inheritable conditions from your breeding programme before passing them on, if a dog carries the gene for PRA you know you can only breed it with a dog who has tested clear, if a dog has a high hip score you can have it neutered and so on.

So disappointed bordercolliesrbonkers.
Really, I am.
I read your comment on the other thread and felt sorry for you, then read what was posted here.
Just so disappointed.

If you can give away free crates, 15kg bags of food, if you have contracts etc, I don't understand why you can't test your breeding dogs.
A simple one off cheek swab to check no dogs are carriers of PRA and therefore guaranteed not to produce affected pups.
I am not sure if the other tests for tns and cea and MDR1 gene are DNA or blood but they would be one offs for adult breeding dogs aswell.

You mentioned puppies being eye tested, is that by a canine opthamologist?
Or a vet simply shining a light and acting yep, looks good!

Your comment about them being herders and therefore unsuitable for kids (but only under 3) concerns me aswell.
The emphasis should be on NEVER tolerating herding behaviour towards people EVER, not the age of the child.
It is never cute, it is never 'protective'
It is disrespectful and dangerous.

It isn't just nipping that is a concern, a Collie that has been allowed to practise herding on people is a dangerous animal.
They will give chase when they see running children or cyclists or people playing football, typically, they will start giving eye and crouching sometimes.
If you have ever experienced true collie eye, words cannot describe how horrible it is.
It makes most adults extremely nervous, can you imagine what a child would feel like?
Child or adult runs, collie will try and cut them off in front, typically, child or adults screams, shouts and runs faster.
Dog starts either nipping or grabbing - both can cause injury including bleeding and wounds that need stitching.
Remember that a collie will keep upping pressure until the target does what they want, usually stop moving.

Remember also that herding is predatory behaviour.
Collies are a high prey drive breed, right at the top for cat killing and sheep worrying/maiming.
You can only really herd animals that group together naturally, like sheep.
Do you really want to be allowing predatory behaviour around small children that move erratically and make high pitched, squeaky noises.....

** edited to add that I don't know if you advise new buyers to make it clearthat herding behaviour towards people early on is unacceptable, it's just that the comment about the 3 year olds reads to me as if you are basically saying 'collies will nip the heels abit because they are herders and teeny kids will be scared so if your kids are over 3 then it's fine to buy one' and it isn't.

I am not saying that kids and collies are incompatible, although a lot of breeders and rescues think they are.
I have a baby and a 6 year old living with my collie.
I am just saying that the number one rule of collie ownership, in my opinion, should be do not allow herding of any form towards people because it has the potential to get very dangerous, especially when children a involved.

I have a question about pets4homes. If they aren't as vigilant as they can be and good breeders regard the site as unscrupulous - how come approved breeders by The Kennel Club also advertise on it?

Because the breeders who really 100% honestly do it for the breed are very rare.

I have used pets4 homes to advertise my puppies for the past three years.I can assure you that my puppies and their mum are given the best of care, I even sleep downstairs with them for the first couple of weeks! They are loved and cared for, well socialised and have all relevant health certificates. I appreciate that there could be unscrupulous people on the site but there are plenty of genuine breeders too!

Allsorts Dog Rescue is based in West Sussex and they have some lovely dogs on their website. There are a mixture of ages & sizes.
I would say though, you have to be determined and if you have only applied for one or two of the cutest looking ones, you will probably be disappointed. It's temperament that is most important, not looks.

Yes they do and they do bugger all about it. My mum got a chocolate lab from there, it became seriously ill due to worms we did a bit of digging and found the man was selling 4 litters of different breeds at the time! Informed them and he was still advertising months later.

The original post is from 2012 and the latter posts 2015.

Just in case anyone doesn't realise it's a zombie thread me

It is not cost thatbdeters me from health testing it is the stress a puppy undergoes to have all the tests done.

What LoathsomeDrab said, plus most health tests are DNA tests, done with a simple mouth swap. All the hip / elbow scoring involves a general anaesthetic... not nice, but better than producing 20 odd dogs in pain.
These tests are a one off and well worth doing! Genetics is a wonderful discipline, without testing we'd know very little about it.
As for certain certificates, that involves a thorough check by a vet, not much different to your annual health check and boosters. This is done regular.
So you can be reassured, health testing is not harmful, whereas breeding from untested stock can be catastrophic.

I have some thoughts. I agree with saying that it is just an advertising site, and they're not responsible for who uses it, although I think they do try to police it. I also have some points nobody seems to have thought of. 1: It's used by lots of people to rehome pets they can no longer care for, but had been loving owners who just had a change of circumstance. 2: It is used for more than cats and dogs, but for more unusual pets, which are harder to advertise for and harder to find, and Pets4Homes is a valuable resource for this. And, possibly most importantly, 3: What about people who breed their dogs as a small scale hobby? The mother, at least, would be their family pet, and they'd bring up the puppies in a loving home environment - a lovely start to life, but it can definitely be harder to find buyers. They're not recognised breeders, their dogs often aren't KC registered, often they're somewhat unusual crosses. They're lovely dogs, but it can be hard to find buyers, and advertising online on such sites can be a great way to find buyers, and these people can be great people to get puppies from. They really care, and the puppies are used to a home environment, they're generally less doing it for profit and mostly just want to cover their costs and make a small profit - which is probably all they can hope for anyway - so it's generally much cheaper and actually affordable compared to 'reputable breeders' who for many people are just unaffordable. And I know what you might be thinking - so no, being unable to afford a straight-up payment of £1000 or more doesn't mean you can't afford the ongoing upkeep of a dog.

I found my puppy on pets4homes... definitely not a puppy farmed dog but I did a lot of research on the breeder (more of a proper accidental litter than breeding) and stalked all their social media, their business, companies house etc before I was comfortable...didn’t pay anything in the way of a deposit until I had visited the puppy (under COVID guidelines at the time) and in the interim had daily videos and messages from the breeder with some live video/ puppy chats. When we visited we met both parents of the litter as one was a working dog and the other a family gun dog.

In the many, many months I spent on pets4homes I definitely saw some really dubious stuff going on... and when I did report it, the posts disappeared almost instantaneously. My advice would be... keep an eye on what comes up on that site and research the hell out of anyone you’re thinking of engaging with.

We are indeed blessed with our puppy and the breeder and I are still in touch.

In the breed of dog I have I don't know of a single honest good breeder who would advertise on there. Every advert I see screams BYB to me, dogs are untested etc.

If you find an ad of interest ask if the dogs are fully health tested, the puppy you want to buy (fingers crossed) will be with you for years. So it's important to try and buy an as healthy puppy as possible. I have seen the heart ache of people buying puppies that end up having health conditions that were so preventable if the parents had been health tested.

Of course you can't test for everything but a good breeder should care enough to want to produce as healthy, well socialised puppies as possible.