have made very difficult decision to rehome beagle - how do it go about it??

[breadandhoney]

Our beagle is almost 4 years old. We've had her all her life and she has been a very trying dog from day one. She is a typical beagle in that she is ruled by her nose. If she picks up a scent she cannot and will not let it go - whether on a walk or in the house. She very rarely just sits at peace. We also have a lab who is the antithesis of the beagle in every way.

I put my heart and soul into Molly, training her and giving her all the attention and exercise and play that she needed - and she was still difficult to handle. However, since I had the time, I enjoyed her company and her quality of life was excellent.

Since having DD 10months ago I simply do not have the time to devote to Molly any more. She can't be in the house any more as she needs to be watched constantly (she opens doors and breaks into rooms, raids the bin, etc etc etc etc etc!!!) and with DD that is just not possible. As a results both dogs now spend all day every day (apart from their 45 min walk around the fields) outside in their pen. This is not the life that they should have and it is certainly not the life I want to give them. Neither of them is happy and neither are we! Sukie (our lab) could be inside with us, as she is so chilled and loyal and obedient and would simply sit at my feet and follow me about, doing exactly as she was asked.

So for the sake of everyone's happiness we have come to the very difficult decision to rehome Molly. I have shed many tears over this, as she is my original baby. Even though she winds me up 90% of the time, I can't let go of that 10% of the time when she makes me smile and I just love her! Anyway, I'm getting a bit off track here (and very upset!)

Can anyone give me any advice on how to go about rehoming her? The only suggestion DH will make is "put her on gumtree". I am NOT going to put her on gumtree. I need to make sure she goes to a wonderful home where she will be able to get all the attention that she needs! How do I do this?

I have already contacted our vet practice (which is brilliant) and informed them of the situation. They (and other local practices) have put her details in their "book" in case anyone comes in asking for a beagle! This seems like a long shot. Is a photo-ad on the vet's noticeboard the way to go? These always make me feel very sad - never thought I'd be considering it.

Any help would be very much appreciated. We have made our decision, so please do not try to talk me out of it, as it is what is best for our family.

Thank you.

I think I would bite you if I thought you were going to lock me out.

I could probably write a book on snappy, growly dogs after Devil Dog. We rehomed him from a pound about two years ago. Once he settled in we realised he was not a very nice dog when you wanted him to do something. Putting him into the kitchen to sleep was a two man job. We were snapped at many times. As soon as he saw us getting ready for bed, his hackles were up and his teeth were bared ready for fighting.

When she is under the table don't try to pull her out, have smelly, tasty treat in your hand and call her out. Failing this use a house line and guide her out with that. Treat her as soon as she is out. It took just a few days for Devil Dog to go from snarling the second his bed was mentioned to walking out calmly and putting himself there.

I used clicker training with him and it worked a treat. Don't get me wrong, it's still ongoing. We have a lot left to do and still go over old ground, but he is much easier to manage.

Wrt to the bahaviour towards the lab, could you not invest in a second shed or split the existing one in two, with seperate entrances? It is not unreasonable of the Beagle to want space from the lab and somewhere of her own. My two have seperate crates, they won't share them. They seem to respect each others space.

But I have always worked on the idea that she should do what i ask because she respects me, not because she's bribed - lab was never treated except for recall and she is very well-trained and well-behaved.

However, I understand that perhaps a radically different approach may be needed for the beagle, as she obviously does not respect me.

Where do these minimu and midori hang out?? :)

Bribes work a treat (no pun intended) with molly though, as she is very motivated by food and smell!

The doghouse section, Midori is on this thread

I got a lot of advise from them about Devil Dog when we first got him. They really know their stuff.

I don't discipline Devil Dog, he'd probably eat me . I use treats and shamless bibery. It works, so I am happy. I have no idea if he respects me, I am not sure he understands the concept of respect . He understands stinky cheese very well though. My trainer told me that a dog won't waste their energy doing something if there is nothing in it for them. He's a smart man, my trainer.

He truely is a different dog since we started positive training with him.

Sorry Midori - i need to start looking at who is talking to me!

So bribery isn't a bad thing per se then? I wonder how it would work if i was bribing the beagle and not the lab? I don't want Sukie to pick up Molly's bad habits, and I don't want to have to start bribing her too, as she is the best-behaved dog I've ever known.

I have a lot of thinking to do. I had been wrestling with the rehoming decision for months and had made my mind up. Now, I'm questioning myself. Should've come to mumsnet sooner. I had no idea the wealth of knowledge and advice that was available here!

I need to spend another few days just assessing things and deciding whether we (DH included!) have the time and energy to start yet another training program.

Thank you so much for all your advice and help.

Vall, I'll get in touch if we decide to call Bernie. Thank you - so glad to have a contact.

Bribery is definitely not a bad thing, nor is it strictly bribery. It's training . Do be sure to adjust her diet to account for the treats though and you might want to look at the level of excerise she is getting. I have never owned a Beagle, but 45 minutes a day would not be enough for my terrieir, he gets 2 45 minute walks, one morning and one evening.

Look up clicker training. You won't regret it. Post lots of questions on here (I did), you'll get lots of support of tips.

"My trainer told me that a dog won't waste their energy doing something if there is nothing in it for them."

Never a truer word spoken. Totally agree that I'd try to bite you too if you pulled me out from somewhere I was safe and happy. Offer me a bit of vegan chocolate however... :io

And, bloody hell Dooin... has it really been 2 years since you took on Devil Dog? How time flies!

WRT treating/bribing both dogs, I see no harm in rewarding your Lab for good behaviour either. That said often it shouldn't be an issue as it's important to train individually and concentrate on the one dog so the Lab shouldn't be any the wiser that her buddy is getting liver cake.

"But I have always worked on the idea that she should do what i ask because she respects me, not because she's bribed - lab was never treated except for recall and she is very well-trained and well-behaved."

Every dog is different, though. We have a sheltie. He is Model Dog. He walks to heel perfectly, he goes in his crate when asked, will go anywhere you tell him to, would sit and stay put for hours if you wanted him to, his recall is 100% perfect, always. He never went to classes or anything -he didn't need to. We just thought we were naturally brilliant at dog training and other people weren't.

Hahaha! Then we got our Jack Russell/ Spaniel x puppy. Let me tell you, she is bribed for everything. If we didn't treat, she would do nothing. She wants what she wants and she intends to get it, so the only way to do anything with her is to get her to want what we want -because it leads to a tasty treat. She's wonderful, but, goodness, she's hard work. We go to dog class and they say treat, treat, treat, and eventually the behaviour will become automatic.

I'm not sure it's about the dog respecting or not respecting you. I think it's more about the dog weighing up a simple "is this worth doing?" equation when you want something done. If that something is to be stuck outside, with no reward, then for the dog, it isn't.

Can you find a reward based trainer? I'm not saying it will be overnight, but I think you might start seeing a different dog. I'm sure you would feel better if you could find a way to keep your original baby. Plus, young children are hard work, but this stage is over so quickly. Once you have a child begging you for another dog (will happen before you imagine) I think you might regret it.

It'll be coming up to two years very soon Vall. It feels like yesterday.

"I wonder how it would work if i was bribing the beagle and not the lab?"

We do this. I don't think Budgen, model sheltie, even notices. We do walk them separately quite often, though, which makes it easier.

Walks with sheltie go like this. We leave the house, he walks beside us. We tell him he's a good dog, he smiles a lot. We walk lots more. He walks near us, smiling. We go home. At the end, he has one small treat and we praise him.

Walks with Poppy, JRTx, go like this. We take her out on the lead, pulling. We stop. She stops pulling, looks at us, we treat. Off we go. She forgets she's not meant to pull. We stop. She looks at us, we treat. We let her off the lead. We recall her, we treat. She runs off. We recall her. We say sit. We treat. She glances at horse poo. We recall her. We treat. Without doing this constantly she would be 6 miles away before you could blink!

Poppy probably gets 50 treats on her walk (we take it from her food) and Budgen gets 2. Both are happy. We do treat her and not him when they're together, or more often, treat her something worth getting and give him a miniscule bit of kibble. I honestly don't think he notices - he seems very happy and smiley. They get on well. Maybe someone on here who knows better will say it matters - but I don't think dogs are like human children in that it has to be distributed evenly.

I should point out that I am not a behaviourist, but I am in NI and if I can help in any way, I would be happy to.

Re: treats/bribery in training. Think of it as motivating rather than bribing. If you want your dog to do what you want and have a way of achieveing it, does it really matter why it is doing the things you want?

A reward can be a treat, can be a word of praise, a game/toy. So, if you want your dog from out under something you have two choices. Dragging it out by the collar sure as heck isn't going to make it respect you, but as you've found out, it might make it anxious or upset and one day that growl might well turn to a snap or a bite. So, instead you can 'lure' it out with a treat. Both ways are likely to get the dog out, but the second is likely to mean the dog is more motivated to do what you want next time and isn't going to get cross/grumpy/grouchy/dfensive so you aren't risking an adverse reaction.

You can also use treats to teach a dog to go where you want it to. So, if you want a dog in a certain room, chuck a few treats in there, which the dog will follow in and at the same time, use the command you want for that room, which could be 'utility room' or 'in there' (or 'bed' if the dog's bed is in there) or whatever you like. Then make sure the dog always gets something nice when it is in the room, like a raw bone to chew on or a stuffed kong, a special toy it is only allowed in that room etc. Not only will the dog be motivated to go into that room, it will also start to make positive associations with that room, so will want to stay in there too, especially if it's somewhere the dog can go to get peace and quiet after a walk or something.

Breadandhoney, I sympathise with you, I really do.

I have 13 month old long snout Beagle, I have had dogs since I was 13, and she is the hardest dog to live with out of them all.

Like yours she is totally and utterly food obsessed. I have accepted this is her nature so I use it too my advantage. She will not sit if I do not have a treat for her ready in my hand. Won't come to me to get harness on to go to park, won't do any single command unless I have treat.

If I have treat she will, sit, down, stay, beg, paw, come front, with me, roll over, finish, stop, BUT only if I have treat.

I used to get so angry that she would do nothing unless I had food, but once I accepted that she has to see there is something in it for her - we have come on in leaps and bounds.

Beagles are incredibly hard work. Mine will steal and destroy anything in the house, absolutely anything. I can't go to the toilet and leave her unattended, I have to put her in crate.

My DC's are 7 and 12, and it was family decision to have beagle so they have to share in feeding, walking and general care of her. They walk her round block but never in park off lead on their own, as she wouldn't come back to them. So it is easier for me. Plus DD comes dog training with me every week, she trains CKCS and I train Beagle and we practice training on every walk together.

They get two walks a day, that total around an hour and a half to two hours, most of this off lead chasing ball. She gets very naughty if she gets bored, (ripped fencing down in garden two weeks ago).

What I am trying to say is as a fellow beagle owner I totally get where you are coming from, but if you can find some way to make it work, Beagles can be trained.

I sincerely wish you the very best and hope you find a solution that is best for your Beagle.

The idea that dogs should do stuff to please you or because they respect you or just because you say so is entirely outdated.

Dog are totally self serving you can get them to perform a behaviour by getting them to realise that reponse = reward or you you can get them to perform a behaviour by getting them to realise that non-response = punishment.

The former works with all dogs, once you understand how to train and any failures within it are ones that need to be worked on by you (timing, right reward etcs).

The later works for some very easy to train dogs, but is very undesirable and very old fashioned.

I would highly recomend reading The Culture Clash which could be life changing for you and your dog, it is a training manual, but more importantly it will give you a massive insight into how dogs actually work.

Good luck, you obviously love your dog very much and it would be wonderful to give her one last shot.

I am a behaviourist and Beagles are such easy dogs to train as they love their food. - They can get trained without even realising it. They are determined little dogs though and clever so you have to be a step ahead of them but there are ways to do this.

Beagles do not respond to harsh handling and are clever little chaps with courage so will give you a growl if they are not happy HOWEVER the behaviour you discuss can be easily changed if you can be bothered.

Clickers are fab with beagles and you will have him doing back flips as soon as you get it out (Ok may take a week or two for backflips )

Dominance theory is tosh and he is not dominating your lab - he just wants to be comfy so grabs the comfy bed first. Unfortunately what you are doing will encourage his wayward behaviour.

But get a clicker and click it and give Beagle a treat just do this several times a day. you can keep him outside to start with and just go outside click and give him a treat do this for a few minutes and then go in again. Beagle will already begin to associated you with fun things and will probably watch out for you and come charging over to you when you go outside. Already working on recall without even trying! (He may up the anti and bark and demand for you to come out to start with - just ignore this he has to learn self control)

Once he is onto the clicker so after a few days lure him into a sit with food and click the second his bum is on the floor then treat.

If you continue to train him like this he will up for anything. recall, downs, stays, waits etc.

Once you have more control over him you live will be much easier and he will be a happier dog.

I am more than happy to help with specific problems if you do decide to keep him but don't want to waste me time if you are rehoming him anyway.

Forget the idea of it being a bribe and he needs to respect you without food - it obviously doesn't work or you would not be in the position you are in. Old fashioned, out of date useless way of training.

Thank you all so much for your input. I don't want to waste your time, so I need to have a chat with DH (may be tuesday before we get to do this properly, as he is working non-stop atm) and we really need to decide whether to give it one last shot, as where puts it. Our patience has definitely run thin (esp DH's) but I don't want to give Molly away without knowing I have done everything I can to make it work.

I'll be back here soon once we've decided. May need more info on clicker training, as our trainer didn't use it and I know nothing about it.

FWIW this thread has made me realise that whilst our training technique worked amazingly with the lab (and I've seen it work well with many breeds) beagles seem to need a different approach. I hold my hands up to this - I did some research on beagles before we got Molly but it wasn't until well afterwards that I realised that these American sites which claimed they were the perfect pet weren't entirely unbiased, and were also talking about show beagles. Ours is a working dog (and did not come from a registered breeder) I am ashamed to admit I got caught up in the cute puppies and didn't exercise good judgement. I was young and naive. But that was a long time ago now and Molly is my responsibility and I want to make sure I give her the best future.

So, I seem to have gone off on another one here!! I'll leave it at that and go and do some serious thinking...

Thanks again.

Ok so DH and I discussed this at length last night and whilst we have had good advice here, we both realise that we do not have the time to commit fully to yet another training regime. I wish I'd come on here years ago, before DD and other changes in our circumstances and got a handle on Molly then. We have decided that rehoming her is the best thing for everyone, including Molly herself.

Vallhala - I would very much appreciate if you could put me in touch with Bernie at Dublin Dog Rescue?

poor Molly