Thoughts on A Woman Of Substance - the new series versus original and book? Spoiler Alert

[PinkTonic]

Setting up a thread to have a decent discussion of the new version compared to the original series and book.

I’m up to episode 5 personally and pretty nonplussed about what I consider to be pointless and gratuitous changes to characters and plot. I’d love to hear other opinions and don’t care what episodes are discussed. I think Brenda Blethyn is all kinds of wrong for Emma although I like the young version. I am immensely irritated that someone thought it was a good idea to completely omit how Emma started her business and life in Leeds whilst wasting time on the sordid details of Adam’s sex life. And no Laura!!

Hugely disappointing adaptation for all the reasons mentioned above. Strayed way too far from the book, wasted far too much time on the Fairleys, the acting was mostly terrible, too many characters changed/left out, not a patch on the 1985 version. And the sex scenes were laughably bad!!!

Well I have come over from the NO SPOILERS! thread but I think I have nothing to add 😂. Why the hell bother to update it and then get it so wrong? Yes the book and first adaptation feel outdated now, but they work. This somehow manages to still feel outdated whilst missing out the most important parts of the story, IMHO. If you are going to do a sweeping, rag to riches melodrama, either own it or be brave and somehow bring it bang up to date. I think C4 have ended up with a hot mess as it is neither.

The Fairley's are all wrong, there is no nuance at all. Edwin, as already mentioned, looks about 12 and is portrayed in such a way it is very hard to imagine Emma would give him a second glance. The rest of them are all one dimensional and the focus seems to be to use them to 'sex-up' the plot which serves no purpose, accept maybe to try and be a bit more Bridgerton/Rivals (cynical view).

There is far too much Fairley's- they are basically there to drive the plot and help explain Emma's motives and revenge. It seemed like there were far to many episodes until we got to Emma's post service life and this was glossed over. The 'below stairs' drama was minimal and superficial. I guess C4 thought viewers are not interested in that anymore and more interested in that of squire Fairley et al.

Far to many important characters were dropped or not properly invested in. The episodes post Emma living in Fairley Hall (or whatever) seemed to be rushed to their conclusion. As for the 1970s parts, obviously written by someone who could not be bothered to check what the reality of that time was and 'reimagined it' as a glittery disco time for everyone.

WoS has never been 'high brow', either as a book or in the first adaptation, but it was always gritty. Yes of course there was poetic license, but there was some grounding in reality.

Loved seeing the bucolic Armley though! I bought my first house there and still work in the area. Yes, there are some signs of prosperity due to the mill (so mill owners/managers houses) but as someone pointed out there were also lots of slum conditions. The workers lived in the back to backs, probably one family to a room.

think a lot of us feel the same, waste of a good opportunity.

As I remember so little of the original I am thoroughly enjoying this series. I suspect that anyone who hasn't read the book or seen the original series is more likely to enjoy it as well.

I didn’t hate it but I didn’t love it. As has already been said, too many changes to characters, too much of Adam sh*gging anything and everything that moved. The kalinski family all but erased and paula is a complete dolt instead of a savvy businesswoman who learned everything from her grandmother. Might watch the 1985 version. If anyone has kindle unlimited the book is free at the moment.

I just couldnt understand how old Frank was meant to be through the whole 5 years of the early part of the story.

By the end, in his school uniform he looked younger than I thought he was meant to be at the beginning.

Yet if he was only about 10 when the dad died, would the people around there be so cruel as to dump an apparently well-liked, burnt to a crisp foreman in the bed and leave his young son to care for him?? And NO-ONE knew how to get hold of her to help her brother, even though when she needed someone to take care of her kid, suddenly a cousin was near?

And as for Blackie being re-named Mac - why?! He was a ruddy blacksmith, not a macsmith. And "Mac" is the Scottish version of the Irish "O' " - and he was Irish.. made no sense at all.

It is like the screen writers think they are so much better than the multi-millionaire, world famous Catherine Cookson " we will take what she wrote and make improvements as we are so much cleverer than her, even though no-one has ever heard of us"

I was desperately disappointed by how far this went away from the book and the ridiculous casting. A travesty.

Awful and Paula was rubbish. Who was her Father? Where is Emma’s love of her life? Her children seemed to despise her -all of them! It was so unbelievable and Brenda was miscast. Liked young Emma though

@HDJH1234, totally agree re Frank, have no idea why they decided Emma had only one sibling as it made much more sense when there was also the eldest brother apart from just Frank. I cannot understand how removing him from the narrative enhanced this adaptation. Her family were really important to the plot, but have been denigrated to minor characters.

Her mother and father's characters were just glossed over and became insubstantial, as was her ongoing role in supporting her family. FFS, I am 51 and even my grandmother was in service before marriage (she was very proud of a (reproduction) chair she was gifted when she left). It is actually quite recent history that the reality for working class people that you were expected to earn a wage and contribute from an age which is now considered to still be childhood. This adaptation just not reflect that and is more focused on the bloody Fairley's than it needs to be.

Also, if I remember rightly, Emma just did not walk into shop work? (I maybe getting confused with Catherine Cookson crap dramas) but spent time in the mills, got evicted from her lodgings for being pregnant etc. She made her luck but also faced the realities and prejudices of her time

She really struggled in Leeds at first then one day whilst looking for a job she helped Mr Kalinski escape from an antisemitic attack and then he gave her a job and was how she learned tailoring. She lodged with Laura, a friend of Blackie’s who he later married. I really disliked that they missed out how she actually got started in Leeds which was integral to the plot, and instead spent a lot of the time on the Fairley’s, especially Adam’s weirdness with Adele and Olivia in graphic detail, which was completely made up by the scriptwriters.

I didn't understand that at all , no need to change his nickname, made no sense mac is irish for son and is in some surnames especially in the irish version but his last name was still o neill which would be the same . It seemed unnecessary, like a lot of the changes

Catherine Cookson another author of her time. My favourite the Mallens trilogy.

Just for fun… who would you have cast in the main roles? Was thinking Lesley Manville for elder Emma?

Did you spot the many scenes shot at Beamish, where many Cathererine Cookson stories were filmed?

Strangely although I’ve reread the mallen books, a fair few times, I can’t remember watching the mallens more often. I never found it comfort viewing unlike woman of substance and hold the dream. Going to see if available any where.

Can anyone remember if there was a BTB book where the main character was adopted and at the end it turned out her mother had joined an enclosed order of nuns?

Ive just watched all episodes and was really disappointed.
This new remake was not good, I totally agree it was overly focussed on the Fairley's story, particularly the weird Madonna Whore type of dynamic with the Squire, his wife and sister in law/mistress.
The last episode was ridiculous and I didn't like the ending at all.

I am now going to spend the next week rewatching the 1985 original to try to erase all memory of this awful version.

Where have you found the 85 version please?

It on Channel 4 on demand

The original from 1985 is on Channel4 and if Channel4 are smart they will schedule the sequel, HOLD THE DREAM (1987) very soon!

Watch A Woman of Substance (1985) | Stream free on Channel 4

Cannot forgive the absence of Major Paul McGill (Barry Bostwick)!

WTA!!!

I did love the new Emma though, Jessica Reynolds is an excellent Emma Harte ... but and there are many buts as you have all so very correctly pointed out!

Right, I am off to find I'LL TAKE MANHATTAN and SCRUPLES!

How I so loved all those 80s fabulous/lavish/glam/trashy/ragstoriches TV Dramas!

Enjoy!

Please come back and tell me if you find Scruples as I can’t!

And yes to FLAMBARDS, THE THORN BIRDS and THE MALLENS too but LACE will always be 'The Ultimate' 80s TV Mini Series!

Off down the 80s TV rabbit hole!

I think it might be on Paramount+ ... I am sure it is out there somewhere if you know where to look ...

Again, Channel4 if you are reading perhaps a marathon weekend of classic 80s Mini Series is due as you will have your audience!

Watched Hold My Dream on prime at the weekend.

Upstairs Downstairs & Flambards next watch.