Downton Abbey

[LadyofMercians]

I'm very late to the party with this one, but I've just finished all 6 series and the 2 films. I've mostly enjoyed it, but it has left me with lots of questions. It's not a period in history that I know a great deal about and I'm wondering just how realistic the Crawley family's care for their servants was?

Paying for legal expertise for Bates and Anna, medical bills for Mrs Patmore & Mrs Hughes, mostly turning a blind eye to Barrow's 'transgressions'? Not to mention complete acceptance of Tom Branson into the heart of the family or Edith's 'ward'?

Obviously, as viewers, we need to like the main characters, but would a family of that social standing and in that time really be so kind?

I thought the first series was really excellent. Thomas and O’Brien bitching about everyone while having a fag - loved them. After the first series it went completely downhill into make believe land.

The Crawleys are far too progressive. Agreed Upstairs Dowmstairs was far more hard hitting, the gay footman who ran away rather than be arrested, the son bringing disgrace on the family by getting the ex maid pregnant… the attitudes far more realistic with closer accents to what people would have sounded like. I still enjoyed it but it wasn’t realistic.

I watched it while restoring an old Singer sewing machine a few months ago - imagine my amusement when the sewing machine's twin popped up!

I would imagine that two servants being arrested for murder and not immediately sacked would mean the family would be ostracised and it would be a huge scandal. And as for a maids child being cared for during the day in the nursery with the family children, just no!

We just rewatched and loved Dame Maggie Smith even more.

The whole thing is impressive. The sibling set up is quite something.

It probably does have some creative leeway but that’s ok.

Barrow's homosexuality in particular is ludicrously handled. Still, it's a precursor to bridgerton with it's huge range of black aristocrats. Meeting the desires of the modern audience rather than being historically representative.

Maggie Smith was utterly divine in it - to be fair I could watch an entire continual loop of her withering one-liners between Downton and Harry Potter for most of eternity. She really was one of the unique greats.

The costumes are splendid.

I love Downton, but it’s pure silly nonsense.

See I don’t mind Bridgerton because it isn’t trying to be historically accurate, it’s set in an Alternative Universe Regency England in which certain historical events have happened differently to, or instead of, those that happened in ‘our’ Regency England, resulting different societal norms, largely around race.

Downton would have been better off doing this rather than pretending that half of its storylines would ever actually have happened. An alternative universe would fit much better and would mean a lot less shoehorning things in.

I don't think its that difficult to imagine that good people were among the upper classes too. People could be kind while still respecting the boundaries of social class. Yes they were progressive, but it must stand that some upper classes were, or social change probably wouldn't have happened at all. I'm only speculating, not being of upper class descent myself 😁

One thing that shocked me towards the end of the series was when Anna and Mr Bates say it's a freezing night and they might treat themselves by putting on some coal. They lived in incredible discomfort and cold if that is the case and the Crawleys didn't give a shit. Also Mary asking Anna to sort out her contraceptive stuff knowing how it offended Anna and not giving it second thought. Paying for Mrs Patmores medical bills was entirely self serving so she could continue working at the same pace. So they weren't that great really.

I think the acceptance of Edith's ward was more believable than some of the other stuff. I think Branson would never have been accepted and absolutely no way would Tom Barrow have been accepted either once they found out about him.

How funny I’ve just started watching it as well. I’m on season 4. Did they really only see their children for one hour a day? Where was the bonding?

We have recently watched all of it, all these years later, along with its American counterpart the Gilded Age, (also by Julian Fellows) and the 2 series re launch of Upstairs Downstairs, also now old. ( I watched the original, so that dates me)!

They all had zero appeal for me at the time they were released.

A shortage of more immediately appealing choices over the summer season led us to give it and the other two programmes a try.
I can see why so many viewers were drawn to it. We found the history/costumes and
behaviour of the characters entertaining.

We did google for more factual information, around the times and themes.
It was well acted and sumptuously filmed, and obviously the historical accuracy drifted to suit the storyline at times.

Have you never met an older UC person? There was no ‘bonding’. Not even germane only to the Downton period. My friend is married to a man in his 50s who was raised by a nanny in a minor stately home in Kent (since sold off — his widiwed mother now lives in the former dower house) and sent away to school aged six. He has had a polite but distant relationship with his parents all his adult life.

Robert’s character is completely unrealistic

always telling people he loves them 🤣

I think it was clever to connect with modern audiences by being liberal for their time, which of course was only done through the marriage to a rich American woman, probably the biggest scandal of all. I also think Sybils character had a huge impact. She was the one who saw beyond class and they all absolutely loved her. It was the love for her that allowed acceptance of Branson and the daughter and I guess indirectly the same reason why they accepted Edith's child. I love the arc of Edith's character, she was my favourite in the end.

One thing that always niggled at me though, Mr Bates who everyone was so sure didn't kill his wife because he was such an honourable man. Yet when Anna is attacked she believes Bates will kill the man responsible. She is so sure of this she is willing to throw away her marriage to keep the secret. Then when the man dies everyone is so sure he didn't do it. Including Anna. I was waiting for them to finally reveal both this murder and his wife's murder and that Anna knew all along. I feel the writers must have changed the plot line somewhere along the way because it made no sense.

Also how much was Daisy getting for the windows pension? Would it have put her wages up significantly?

@Dontlletmedownbruce yes I wondered the same thing about the murders. I never worked out if he did murder Mr Green. The sorry about someone confessing wasn’t quite right.

I’m on season 5 and that couple just bore me. They’ve had such big parts the whole way through and she’s so drab! Great actor though. I haven’t seen her in anything for awhile.

I was wondering the same thing! There's some really unsavoury characters in Downton, but there's some really lovely characters too 🥰. I love it because it helps me escape to a different world ❤️

I was pleasantly surprised to see a lot of the Game of Thrones cast in Downton. It can be drab, but I think that's part of the fascination 🙏

He came back with that mark on his face the night before the incident, I think he is implicated.

Downton is a guilty pleasure of mine, but it's pure fantasy. Look at Mrs Patmore alone: the Crawleys paid for her medical bills, bought a plaque to honour her nephew, and risked their reputation by visiting her B&B. (I think they even performed another major act of kindness for her, but I can't remember it and now it's niggling at me!) They didn't sack Daisy after she ripped into the new owner of Mr Mason's farm. They didn't even sack Barrow after all the drama he caused.

Carson is portrayed as an old-fashioned bigot for describing Thomas's homosexuality as foul, making snide comments about a Jewish man marrying into the family, and asking a black man if he's ever considered visiting Africa. The other characters act as though as he's their politically incorrect elderly uncle. But they were all born in the 19th century. They're from the same generation as the long-dead politically incorrect elderly aunts and uncles of the viewers who watched the show when it aired. They wouldn't tut at Carson's views - they'd probably share them.

This.
Saying all of the upper classes were horrible to their servants is as much an oversimplification as DA going too far the other way.

The victorians and edwardians were hugely into social reform, charity and responsibility - in a way we would see as paternalistic now but many definitely did treat their staff pretty well. Workers cottages etc for "retirement" were absolutely a thing.

Any of the things in Downton individually probably could have happened. JF specifically got the Mr Pamuk storyline from a diary of his great aunt or something. It was actually surprisingly common for aristocrats to have affairs, pass kids off as their husbands or take in wards etc. It's just the sheer amount of stuff that's unrealistic but then it's a TV show.

Oh and the trains being good actually is realistic-they were better than they are now solely because so few people had cars so they had to be frequent. Same as post -it used to be the norm even back in the 18th century (before downton) to have post delivered at least twice a day. Modern doesn't always mean better.