Chris Packham Autism Documentary..

[Elderflower14]

Anyone else watching...? I'm very moved watching Ken Bruce's son... Ds2 is autistic and profoundly deaf..

I remember Ken Bruce being interviewed by Jeremy Vine about Murray; I think he'd won an award for his poetry iirc. The interview stuck in my head as it was days after DS's dignosis and I was still shocked about it. DS is a bright masker, and while I had enough suspicions to seek referal, I was stunned at how readily and soon the consultant diagnosed him.

The documentary mentioned the apraxia affecting the speed and accuracy of Murray being able to use his communication systems and it's also why Murray doesn't have the neural connections to communicate vocally no matter how much he wants to. It took a long time for Murray to be able to use the systems he has now, and had no means to communicate until then which must have been so, so frustrating, and no one around him able to gain any insight into what's going on in his vibrant, busy mind.

Flo's video about being herself vs masking is closer to our family's experience of autism and both DS1 and DS2 watched with me. DS1 (12) has been aware of his autism for 3 years (as have I) and I asked if I knew him well in response and he said that I didn't. I try to give him space to be himself and to process the rest of the external world. I hope that he was diagnosed young enough to feel confidence in his autistic identity and reduce that feeling of failure at not fitting.

Chris presented beautifully and sensitively. He balanced his experience of autism and giving Murray and Flo the space to explain their very different experiences. Creating the videos was a great concept.

My observation about DS and empathy is that it manifests in unusual ways. He once burst into tears during Hot Fuzz, when the beloved peace lily is smashed over the trolley boy's head. He recognised Nick Angel's love for his plant as the love he has for his cuddly and how bereft he'd be if he was damaged. He can be great when he recognises other children feeling anxious emotions like he often feels and is very gentle at supporting. Where he struggles is that his emotions are powerful and he can't feel his own pain and someone elses. If he fought with DS2, he struggles to layer feeling sorry about his actions to DS2 with his own sense of injustice about the initial aggravation (even if it was DS2 looking at him/ breathing wrong). Any appologies he makes are genuine. Spontaneous appologies are rare and heartfelt. There is no point going through a scripted, social sorry as it will only escalate a situation. It doesn't mean there isn't remorse, but that must be a difficult emotion to process when your nature is very perfectionist in an imperfect, intense world with a dyspraxic body that's not as refined as your brain would wish.

Yes so interesting, third person I think on this thread. My DS also has hearing loss… I looked into the link but couldn’t find much.

Agree with this. A sanitising of autism to be quirky, sensory, masking and anxiety but nothing else especially not learning disabilities like Down’s syndrome (where I think if I’m right 40% are also autistic yet where are they being represented in the media in relation to autism?)

however I was surprised that as someone with autism, he showed so much empathy towards the people he met.

This is offensive and demonstrates ignorance.

The irony of there being no subtitles.

Watched it yesterday and thought it was fantastic doc. I cried at Flo’s film mainly cos there are def similarities w DD - I urged her to watch it. I thought Murray was amazing, how frustrated he must’ve been without being able to communicate effectively or at all in earlier years.
I‘ve always liked Chris Packham - I like bluntness in a person - I’m quite blunt myself (although have modified it somewhat as I’ve got older).
DS is looking forward to next week as one of the autistic people produce music, which is his hobby.

I work with 3 autistic men in a customer service role and they are all very very different people with different communication styles. All lovely and brilliant but totally agree with the quote about if you have met one autistic person.

@JustDanceAddict I think my DS will be interested in the next one as rapping was his special interest a few years ago.

I tend to write "x does not communicate verbally" in reports - because you can flipping well bet that they communicate in a multitude of other ways! Even a flicker of an eyelid indicating that they are becoming incredibly pissed off is communication!

As for empathy - DD2 is a hugging, caring, kind pool of mush! She is so empathic that the Snowman is forever banned in our house as it made her cry for three hours!

I'd hope that subsequent episodes might cover people with different conditions co-existing with autism or affected by autism in different ways - I'm not going to bash a programme for not covering a specific set of circumstances on episode 1 of x

I do love the "Ok this is where we go into our little how are you script" references!

Thats interesting. I never knew the stats on Downs Syndrome. I'm Autistic. My DSis had Downs Syndrome. Autism was never looked into as everything was put down to her having DS. However.. she was non speaking, had lots of (quite agressive) tics and stims and had lots of other health issues. Sadly, she passed away at age 29. We were both born in the 70s so unfortunately think she (and I to a lesser degree) were victims of the era. As in they didn't really know as much as we did now.

Furthermore, I have Dyspraxia and Hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (hEDS - a genetic connective tissue disorder) and that also presents with around 40% comorbid diagnosis of Autism. My DSis was extremely hypermobile, so likely had undiagnosed hEDS too.

My DD is 11, has a diagnosis of hEDS, has Hashimoto's disease, Anxiety and is currently undergoing ASC assessment. I am advocating for her every step of the way as masking for 5 decades almost destroyed me. It's exhausting, but will be worth it that she gets support she needs.

My sons autistic although you’d never guess - more about his “passions”, phenomenal intelligence
and severe anxiety.

I had to turn the programme off because when he talked about loneliness, I couldn’t cope with it. My biggest fear is that my son will feel lonely as an adult. He is crap at friendships and I worry about him.

@RainbowZebraWarrior your post is good for thought for me, I have 1 child with a diagnosis and I’m 50/50 as to whether I’m autistic too, I’m hyper mobile in my fingers & toes and have Hashimoto's (didn’t know there was a link there)

@CoffeeWithCheese

I think there is only one more episode sadly

I am sorry if I have offended you, but it demonstrates that the programme was ineffective in letting its viewers understand more about the condition.
I am autistic myself and have very little empathy beyond my immediate family. Obviously I also have very little understanding of other people's autism but the programme did very little to enlighten me.

Some comments here indicate that people are expecting a lot of one single programme. Autism is a massive subject, and covers such a wide range of conditions and individual experience, that it could take a whole series to explore and educate about the subject.

This programme did not set out to try to do that. It simply set out to give a few people with autism the opportunity to express what their inner life is like. And I think it did that very well.

Maybe there should be a whole series rather than just a couple of episodes.

Definitely needs more episodes. I need one on ADHD in women

I was worried that I was going to be watching yet another documentary showing typically high functioning adults with amazing talents (or something similar) but I thought Chris did a great job of showing how diverse autism is and how it effects people very differently. He only showed 2 examples (plus himself) and they were totally different. He mentioned several times that autism affects people in different ways. I was pleased he showed a non verbal person, my dd isn’t very verbal and I rarely see anyone similar to her being portrayed on tv. I hope the next programs again shows 2 very different people. I am sorry your dd felt that way but I thought Chris did a good job of covering many autistic traits.

The girls school in Surrey was featured on five live years ago , one of the presenters went there to meet the children and see how wonderful it was. It could have its own programme and it's sad it's the only one in the country.
I need to watch this again as I missed the first 20 minutes and didn't catch Flo or Murray's back story.

He showed more than two people + himself - he also visited and spent time with a community of autistic adult who also have learning disabilities and reflected on the tragedy and loss to the rest of us that their thoughts, experiences and feelings were (for now) still out of reach to the rest world.

I think Chris Packham couldn't have been a better choice to this as he came across as being genuinely interested in the people he spoke to, which is rare in a documentary. I've always liked him - unlike so many other people in the public eye, he walks the walk and tries to make a difference (fox hunting, badger culling etc).

There's at least one more episode to go.

Sadly. No. You will have to "fight" for the support,

Thank you.

I was a bit disappointed when Chris Packman said that people with Autism who are "non speaking" (don't like that phrase) have learning disabilities- some of them do not have learning difficulties, some have apraxia of speech, some have a language disorder.

For a person like Murray to speak so eloquently using an AAC is quite rare. Can I just say though, it did appear that his mum was using a rapid prompt method by the touching of his arm (I hope I'm wrong as that is discredited). Back to my point, someone like Murray is not what you often see. People often have low expectations of "non speaking" children and do not bother to teach them to read and write (very well). Murray's parents obviously have done a huge amount of effort to get him to that point. Just look at the care centre, how can you be high-fiving an adult man and think it's acceptable to use a 5 button talker. It would have been better if they taught him how to write... but anyway I digress.

What I did like, what I think people should shy away from, is his frustration and sympathy of communicating with someone who is minimally verbal. Some very verbal Autistic adults shun parents whose parents are concerned about their children are not speaking- as if they should just accept it and not force them to speak or communicate.

What support?? There isnt any! Not from my experience anyway.

@secular39 I agree I would have liked Chris’s comments about Murray to reflect the broad and diverse nature of non verbal people - who like you say can have learning disabilities or not, can have trouble processing receptive language, or not, apraxia, some gain words then lose them, some can sign…

I know there is a push to say that we cannot assume that people who cannot speak cannot understand, which is great, but we cannot also assume that they can understand either! Just don’t assume anything! Get to know the individual.

Although to be honest autistic people who don’t speak are so rarely shown that I was just grateful and delighted that Murray was able to be on the show, and I found his story very moving. Particularly as he ‘yearns’ to speak still - this is not the end for Murray I really hope that we still as a society try and find ways for him to have a voice - his fustration is still palpable. I feel for him.