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Telly addicts

The Devil's Hour WITH SPOILERS

47 replies

cushioncovers · 29/10/2022 22:27

Spoilers up ahead.

Thought I'd start this one for anyone who's watched it all and wants to discuss.

OP posts:
countdowntonap · 31/10/2022 07:40

Ooo @RagzRebooted Thats a great theory!

cushioncovers · 31/10/2022 08:38

Rag oooh well spotted.

OP posts:
VinoDino · 31/10/2022 11:07

Netaporter · 30/10/2022 21:54

just finished it and really enjoyed it. not sure if I’ve had too much Sunday wine to understand the ending tho 🤣

yep ‘Trevor off Eastenders’ here also 😂 plus anyone else realise he was married to Granny Murray from the CBeebies show?

She will always just be Isa from Still Game to me!

LeMoo · 31/10/2022 13:58

I've just finished watching it and didn't under the ending!

A future/other Lucy having cancer and wanting to remember..?

Happy Lucy with Ravi still having deja vu about choking in a fire (or do I have that the wrong way around)?

Why was it so important that she remember?

Maybe I'm just overthinking it!

Goldpaw · 31/10/2022 13:59

IrmaGord · 30/10/2022 16:03

I've just thought of another question actually. Isaac started the fire in the house, but the end scene was Lucy going to the house as the timelines merged, with Meredith's family living in Lucy's house, because Lucy had followed a different path but the house was still on fire.

So if Isaac didn't exist in that timeline, how did the house still set on fire?

If he copies people then maybe he was in Meredith's bedroom when she accidentally put something over a heater?

cushioncovers · 31/10/2022 16:23

I didn't really get the cancer reference. I understand that at he stayed alive in prison so he could see Lucy but I don't know why they showed her having cancer when she visited.

OP posts:
Gruelle · 31/10/2022 16:26

All these deliberate loose ends are definitely pointing to another season!

cushioncovers · 31/10/2022 16:38

I hope so.

OP posts:
70isaLimitNotaTarget · 31/10/2022 17:58

yep ‘Trevor off Eastenders’ here also 😂 plus anyone else realise he was married to Granny Murray from the CBeebies show ?

Isa Drennan from "Still Game" Grin

TitsInAbsentia · 01/11/2022 19:55

I loved it! Got really scared at end of ep 4 incase the last two were a total downer but it all started falling in to place. Isaac's dad was a total knob.

I love how we all remember Trevor from Eastenders but of course the last time I say him on tv he was in Chernobyl nekkid and covered in dirt 😂 I thought it was a great part for Alex Fearns but I got really sad when I realised what was going to happen to him and Isa!

It wasn't as manic as the Lazarus project. What's 'Life after Life' a few of you have mentioned and where can I watch it?

Octoberfishing · 04/11/2022 11:31

I've just finished watching this. I think I understood most of it - in the usual life that Lucy has, she marries Ravi and is a police officer. In order to "prove" that Capaldi really is a time traveller / reborn multiple times, he asks her what the worst thing that ever happened to her is.

For some (odd, unspecified, would appreciate an explanation) reason, he waits 25 years in prison for her to come and tell him at the end of her life. (Unsure why she couldn't tell him before).

So he changes Lucy's history in the next life. Her mum doesn't kill herself. Ripples mean she doesn't become a police officer, but she has weird flashes of the life that should have happened. (Not explained as to how she knows things that presumably Capaldi has already put right - e.g. the kids in the water, unless this has been changed for the first time in this lifetime.)

He hopes this will be enough to prove to Lucy who he really is. But it isn't.

Lucy dies in "this" timeline - will Season 2 explore her existence as a police officer?

I mean it was nonsense, but hugely enjoyable.

And what an odd thing for Capaldi to get type-cast as a Time Lord.

Gruelle · 04/11/2022 11:39

Indeed! But he’s probably better when his character doesn’t have to be palatable for children!

Purpleavocado · 04/11/2022 17:20

Interesting, but reminded me too much of The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August and Life After Life. Probably not as confusing as Dark. I do love this kind of infinite lives thing.

lazymum99 · 11/11/2022 21:44

So all of these people he saves end up in a life they are not supposed to be in. Some cope and others don’t. Does that mean that any babies born to women in lives that have been changed are like Isaac because they are not supposed to be there.
I really enjoyed this. But Am possibly trying to make too much sense out of it. The book Life after Life very similar concept

paulmccartneysbagel · 13/11/2022 11:04

Ooooh I really enjoyed this series. I really hope there will be a season two.

I wonder if Isaac will just appear in this alternative reality? They couldn't find him when they looked for him, could they? Or was that the arsehole dad just lying to cover his tracks?

Must look up Life after Life. I actually have the book but haven't read it yet.

IrmaGord · 13/11/2022 11:06

So all of these people he saves end up in a life they are not supposed to be in. Some cope and others don’t. Does that mean that any babies born to women in lives that have been changed are like Isaac because they are not supposed to be there

That's what I thought, but the show seemed to imply Isaac was some sort of anomaly. I thought the whole thing was enjoyable tosh, but there was a lot of loose ends. I'd still like a second series but I'm not sure where they'd go with it.

FurryDandelionSeekingMissile · 30/11/2022 14:39

cushioncovers · 29/10/2022 22:36

He definitely sensed his son wasn't right at all. I hate to admit it but I think he did Issac a kindness in the long term.

Just watched the series (am always late to everything) and while there are lots of things I enjoyed about it, and I can live with inconsistencies and plot holes and silliness, this aspect you mentioned is what bothered me morally about the series.

They establish that this little boy is struggling behaviourally/socially/emotionally/somehow, and the mother implies that mental illness like schizophrenia and neurodevelopmental disorder like autism have previously been considered and ruled out.

They then show how the little boy is repeatedly psychologically abused by his father, often in very nasty, insidious, manipulative, and plausibly deniable ways. God knows I'd struggle with how to look after and raise a kid with his difficulties, but the mother manages not to be abusive, and slipping into abuse is generally considered unacceptable no matter how challenging the kid.

If it were just showing an abusive father using the kid to get to the mum, or a struggling father pushed to breaking point, well, that stuff happens, so it happens in dramas. But after seeing all of the father's lack of care and nasty needling snideness towards Isaac (following the earlier total abandonment, with pretty-much-murder to come afterwards), we're then shown Gideon, the character who we've been led to believe is telling at least some version of the truth, explaining that the boy isn't meant to be here and doesn't have a soul. Gideon might not be totally trustworthy, but we see a lot of things that back up his story, so it seems he's telling something like the truth as he understands it.

To me that feels like it's pretty much angling for the viewer to think, "aha, so that explains it, the dad subconsciously knew something was off with this kid, something uncanny and wrong, which is why the dad was acting like that towards him".

I don't feel comfortable with a programme that seems like it's almost trying to justify a character's persistent psychological abuse of a child, that it's somehow reflecting an instinctive revulsion, perhaps therefore not entirely the dad's fault, maybe sending a message that child abuse could be understandable, that maybe doesn't really matter if the kid isn't normal, or could even be the right thing to do…

I also see uncomfortable parallels because autism was mentioned early on (seemingly as something that had been suspected but ruled out), and Isaac does have a couple of autistic-like behaviours. There's a famous quote about autistic children, "You have a person in the physical sense — they have hair, a nose and a mouth — but they are not people in the psychological sense," which was said by Ivar Lovaas, one of the scientists mainly responsible for the development of the popular/controversial autism therapy ABA. He said this in an interview where he explained and tried to justify the extreme and painful aversives that were used as part of ABA at that time on these non-person (soulless?) children. Autistic children have had some horrible stuff done to them and it was okay because they weren't really people, didn't really feel it like proper people would.

This series seems to be drawing on some deep-seated cultural ideas about the personhood of people who have behaviours like some of Isaac's, explicitly disavowing autism but sprinkling in a couple of stereotypical autistic-like traits to give him that authentic soulless vibe 😒

Even without the autism link, though, it felt to me like the series risked putting across quite a dodgy message in this respect. None of the characters said "It's okay to abuse children if there's something really not right about them" but it felt a little like the show was hinting at that, and I think some of the comments on this thread seem to indicate that I wasn't the only person to pick up on that message.

WinterFoxes · 22/01/2023 19:12

@FurryDandelionSeekingMissile - great post. I haven't seen beyond Ep 3 yet (but I don't mind spoilers at all.) As the mother of an autistic son, married to an autistic man, I also felt a bit uncomfortable at how autistically Isaac presented and how he is treated as inhumanly odd.

FurryDandelionSeekingMissile · 23/01/2023 09:45

@WinterFoxes yep, it felt a little cynical to me — making use of some autistic-like behaviours (the echolalia, his inability to understand the school bullying, and so on… it's a while since I watched it, but I think there were a few) to signal his strangeness/"otherness", and through this, whether intentionally or unintentionally, tapping into preexisting cultural ideas about autistic behaviours indicating a lack of personhood or a kind of soullessness, tying the behaviour in to Gideon's revelation about Isaac. They were careful to explicitly say, early on, that the child is not autistic. It's having it both ways, really — making use of these behavioural traits for narrative purposes, while hoping not to provoke the ire of anyone who might object to it on the basis of the autism link. The objection being that the programme can be read as containing subtle messaging about the abuse and murder of autistic children being more understandable or even excusable than the abuse and murder of nice normal children. A kind of justification which has in the past been present in the literature on behavioural modification as well as in news reports on the murders of such children.

Having said that, not everyone would interpret this aspect of the series this way, and I did enjoy most of it. Just this aspect hit an uncomfortable note for me.

medianewbie · 27/01/2023 01:28

.

medianewbie · 27/01/2023 09:16

@FFurryDandelionSeekingMissile
Just watched & just found this thread (very late to the party). Being big fans of Capaldi, my ASD Ds (18) & I recently watched this. He commented: 'why do they say Issac isn't asd when he so clearly is'? We had a long discussion about the lack of clarity about dx asd & understanding of asd in the general population. BUT . .
I wish I had pre-viewed it for suitability (I usually do) as I also thought there were strong elements of 'issac isn't normal so he's better off out of it / any behaviour of others around him is excusable due to frustration': not good!
I have a Dd, asd, 15. She's also a Capaldi fan but I won't be watching it with her (@Ds suggestion, though I was ahead of him on that). In general, yes, very 'Life After Life' (& not as good, although Kate Atkinsons latest book was a big disappointment). I shall head off to watch: 'Dark' - thanks for the tip.

hollysquirrelss · 07/06/2025 21:03

Octoberfishing · 04/11/2022 11:31

I've just finished watching this. I think I understood most of it - in the usual life that Lucy has, she marries Ravi and is a police officer. In order to "prove" that Capaldi really is a time traveller / reborn multiple times, he asks her what the worst thing that ever happened to her is.

For some (odd, unspecified, would appreciate an explanation) reason, he waits 25 years in prison for her to come and tell him at the end of her life. (Unsure why she couldn't tell him before).

So he changes Lucy's history in the next life. Her mum doesn't kill herself. Ripples mean she doesn't become a police officer, but she has weird flashes of the life that should have happened. (Not explained as to how she knows things that presumably Capaldi has already put right - e.g. the kids in the water, unless this has been changed for the first time in this lifetime.)

He hopes this will be enough to prove to Lucy who he really is. But it isn't.

Lucy dies in "this" timeline - will Season 2 explore her existence as a police officer?

I mean it was nonsense, but hugely enjoyable.

And what an odd thing for Capaldi to get type-cast as a Time Lord.

No No No, so he needs her to change her life because when she works as a police woman shes always too good at her job and always ends up catching him and making things too hard for him, so he needs her to walk a different path so that he doesnt keep getting caught so early on etc. Normally when he gets arrested for life he just kills himself straight away to restart the loop, but this time instead, he lives incarcerated in jail hoping that all the things that are relevant and all the future predictions he's made become true, he hopes then she will finally believe him, so instead of killing himself he waits for that to happen. When she does come to him, she has cancer, because as a detective as a constant smoker. He asks he the worst thing thats happened to her so he can change it, but by doing so she says that will change everything and she will loose everything, and hes just like, you will lose youll gain, etc etc. so she agrees and thats why he stops her mum from doing that and creates the ripples

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