Normal People on BBC3

[Bouledeneige]

Binge watched it yesterday and loved it. Emotional, passionate and two really great leads. Thoroughly recommend it (so long as you don't mind lots of love scenes). Cried lie and felt bereft when it finished.

I just googled the GAA society in Trinity.
It has a Gaelic football section for men and women's teams, hurling, camogie and handball. It has 400 members.
Connell might have missed out on the angst if he had joined

Connell also seemed to live out of the way rather than in the heart of the city making it more difficult to socialise.

Dublin isn't big and it's generally easy to get around. He had a car. Also players wouldn't just join their college GAA team - they would be likely to find one in their suburb. There are many and they train in the evenings. That piece didn't ring true for me.

I truly think Connell was crippled by his anxieties and it probably just didn't occur to him to join an established sports team.

I agree. He was quite shy as well and didn’t like the ‘jock’ mentality.

Dublin is very expensive; my DD is at Trinity and lives about four miles out. She has lots of friends who live much further. First year halls are very expensive and in very short supply.

Only up to episode 8. Part of me admires the great acting, and part of me wonders why I should care about this pair of self-absorbed individuals. But with not much else going on, I'll stick it out!

I'm more interested in these characters and actors than I should be Paul Mescal comes across as quite shy in the interviews I've seen and I think he's a little bit in love with the more confident Daisy Edgar Jones. I remember reading Jennifer Ehle writing (at the time of Pride and Prejudice) about how difficult it is to be filming love scenes where you're being told to fall in love with someone and then just walk away without feelings getting involved. I thought this was a fascinating photo of Paul Mescal - he looks quiet and a bit awkward, definitely not at "look at me" kind of guy.

Jennifer Ehle and Colin Firth did go on to have a relationship in RL. I think people are disappointed that the two leads in this aren't a RL couple. Must be v odd for Daisy's boyfriend though.

I fear for Paul Mescal's personal safety when lockdown is over, he will be mobbed by teenage girls.

I just finished this, my mum and sister were absolutely insistent I watch it, loved it etc etc. I wasn’t that impressed tbh.
The endless cycle of sex then misunderstanding then sex again got a little bit tedious and I struggled to believe there was any sort of love between them, especially not an intense, all consuming kind of love, when they could clearly not read the other at all. Even when they were meant to be together and happy (or as close as they ever get), at the pool party, bloody marianne is just sat there smiling inanely while something is clearly going on with Connell. She doesn’t seem to grasp any understanding at all of Connell or of his life, and doesn’t make any attempt to. While Connell isn’t much better, he does ask her more about her life, even if he doesn’t quite know what to say in response.
I think a part of her ‘damage’ certainly stems from the way Connell treated her, by rejecting her in public like that and by essentially telling her she was worthless by asking the other girl to the Debs, he shattered any confidence she might have had and set her on this trail of sexual insecurity and desperation to please men, whatever the cost to her wellbeing, both physical and mental.
Generally speaking, Connell didn’t treat women very well at all. He treated marianne like a dirty secret, he toyed with Rachel when it suited him (altho this is very teenage boy-esque so 🤷🏼‍♀️), he treats Helen like crap, knowing he isn’t completely into her but dragging her along regardless... he’s not the best really.
They get stuck in this dance of pulling closer and pushing each other away and each time they damage the other even more. No one ever says what they’re actually thinking or feeling, and somehow this is meant to be terribly romantic. I think I probably would’ve been more drawn to it, and more interested, had this been written as more of a transitional relationship, one that didn’t go the distance but that taught each of them something about themselves.
All that being said, the acting was very, very good, and the sex scenes were very believable and real (if a bit overdone at times). And I truly bought into the small town characters and general atmosphere, that was believable.

I adored Niall tho. What a lovely guy he was, always bright and happy, and he was So supportive of Connell.

Niall was great, and I also loved Connell's Mum-Lorraine.

I didn't really 'buy' the Jamie character as an actor, he looked very young and not the sort of person Marianne would be attracted to at all.

Lorraine was absolutely precious, and I really liked that she spoke her mind to Connell when he fucked up, while still making it clear he was loved and that she cared.

Yes a mother of two sons, I loved the way Lorraine dealt with Connell when he was treating Marianne like dirt. I would have done the same.

@Ughmaybenot I think the push pull of this relationship is very realistic. This series is very close to the bone for me as I went to Trinity, and I also had a very intense relationship, but in my case it was after I graduated but recently so and I was living in Dublin.

We had many conversations that were similar to theirs. Certainly in my situation we had an incredible draw to each other, it felt magnetic and bigger than either of us. We spoke about things that I couldn't always speak to with others - art, literature, philosophy and it was very natural (despite sounding really pretentious written down !) we really connected on that level. We did not do so well speaking about feelings or the future. He was awkward and quite damaged from his upbringing - a mother who was very withdrawn and never ever showed affection and a very strict demanding father. Only brothers, no other females - tough outer veneer was a necessary ploy in his youth.

I think what the characters really reveal is how when you are young and in a very intense relationship you don't always know that it is different to all other relationships that you will go on to have. Also, you sort of think you have all the time in the world and that you will always find each other again and again. But it isn't always the case. It wasn't in ours. We lived in different cities and at times had other relationships (unsuccessfully) and always gravitated back to each other. Until one time we didn't. And then it was too late and things had moved too far.

Our lives have moved on now but we are still friends &n that old pull is still there but will never be acted on again. We have known each other 24 years now and if one of us needed the other we would be there (non sexual). I can't explain what that 'thing' is that connects us - it just IS.

We had many miscommunications and when Marianne said to Connell that she never told him stuff because she didn't want him to think less of her or think she might be damaged - my eyes filled up as that really rang true for me.

We skirted around things too and in my heart I always knew that we could not make it work longterm I was still so drawn to him I didn't care

I KNOW that what we had was utterly different to anything either of us have had since and we have both been married to other people. In my case happily, in his case not.

This series has stirred up some very strong feelings and memories and I feel all churned up inside after watching it each week. It's making me really sad for our younger selves

I agree @caperplips I think that is a realistic aspect of the relationship, I think the complete lack of knowledge or understanding of the other isn’t, in my opinion, especially over the course of several years.
It rang a bell with em too, when marianne said that about her feeling like she didn’t want to tell Connell things, it’s a difficult game to play, especially for a teenager.
I kind of wish I enjoyed the series more, if only so I won’t get my ears bashed by my mum and sister for not doing so, but alas, it just wasn’t really that incredible for me.

As an aside, I found the exchange between Jamie and marianne in the kitchen in Italy to be very interesting. For someone who seemed to react to abusive and threatening behaviour throughout her life by shrinking away (with her brother for example), I found it interesting that she physically went for Jamie, even tho he was proving himself to be, especially in that moment, somewhat out of control.
I definitely did recognise the romance in Connell running to her rescue.

Me too - that was a bit of a hearts-topping moment when he jumped up and ran into the house.

I think they both know that they could be consumed by each other and they are not equipped for that. She said in the scene at the outdoor cafe in Dublin that she was acting a role with Jamie but didn't have to act feelings when she had been with Connell, she just 'felt' them.

I also relate to that - during the course of the my younger relationship we saw other people and it always felt like going through the motions because it was not the other.

I think us not having all the back stories is also very realistic. In life when you meet people - either as lovers or friends you don't immediately know everything about them and all the more so if that background is complicated. It peels away in layers and you gain a little more insight each time. Sometimes we can't find the words to articulate this stuff. Sometimes we throw out hints and hope that the other person can decipher them.

It's very strange because I know that in my relationship we struggled to reveal too much as it might repel the other - silly I know - but it was real. I read back a diary I had kept at the time and one of the things the jumped out at me was how I was more drawn to him probably because he was hard to read and each time he would expose something vulnerable it made my heart sing inside as I knew that it was rare and stuff he didn't speak about.

And there were other things we spoke so fluidly about which also surprised me - sex was one of them. We were 100% natural and unabashed about it and we spoke about it very easily. I def struggled to express myself in this area with other partners before and after him.

I think Marianne felt very exposed in front of Connell when Jamie was treating her / them so badly and that's why she went for him physically. She also cared more that he was treating Connell than she did about him treating her badly.

Her family dynamic has caused her to build up a thick outer all of self sufficiency and remoteness, except with Connell and she would not have wanted to allow herself become too dependent on him or let him know that she was.It's self preservation.

He feels very deeply but his upbringing, class and social group at home (sporty jocks) prevents him from being able to articulate things - he fears exposure or ridicule and also feels a bit like he 'has no right to have feelings about art or literature'. He feels an impostor in all aspects of his live in Dublin despite excelling academically.

Just watched all of it over 2 nights.

My most lasting impression is the nagging question "do 18yo's really still wear school uniform like the Y7's in Ireland?"

It was ok. Ending was shite.

They still wear school uniform in sixth form in my old school in Wales.

Yes Clitterati we wear the same school uniform throughout secondary!

Thanks for clarifying that. I initially thought they were 16 & then they were all going to the pub buying drinks.

Same deal with uniforms in Scotland as our schools go all the way through, sometimes they let you wear a different tie though!
I actually googled the Irish education system as I was intrigued by the similarities with Scotland, I was impressed and a bit jealous as it seemed to be more rigorous, more like Scotland's used to be before it was mucked about with in recent years in the name of educational theories, that I suspect may not turn out to pass the test of time.
Do Irish posters feel social mobility like Connel's is more or less unusual than it used to be?

The more I’ve thought about this programme the more I’ve felt angry at Connell for his utterly selfish attitude towards marianne. They have an intense relationship but it’s not healthy at all. She spends most of her time during that period miserable apart from the odd bit of euphoria where she’ll take anything she can get from him. He loves her, wants her and needs her but shits on her over and over again. Not surprising she doesn’t put herself out there so much by not telling him things because he has the upper hand all along and whether they get back together is always on his terms.
We have probably all had a relationship like that with someone which is very intense but it’s partly because they’ve got one foot out the door and they’re to-img and fro-ing because they’re oh so conflicted and deep about various things others can actually deal with quite easily, so you always feel on edge. She should have been having the time of her life at that age.

Shes doesn't make ie easy for Connel though, she is curiously insensitive to seeing things from his point of view and doesn't notice when he is struggling she is wrapped up in her own feelings and reactions to things. For example, the poolside scene, she doesn't seem to register that he is trying to tell her something and is struggling, she is too busy enjoying her moment. I like to think I would have followed up his deflection with further probing (DH have me a wry look when i said this as we watched together!)
I realise this could be viewed as requiring the girl to do "emotional labour"...