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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Help - 15yo DS curled up crying saying he doesn't want to go to school on Thurs

50 replies

CuttedUpPear · 04/09/2012 22:34

DS is 15 and undergoing assessment for SEN/ADHD/not sure.
He is very unhappy at school and has been for a long time. He has problems with focus and concentration, says he doesn't want to learn anything (I think because it all involves writing it down and he isn't good at this).
He was having private maths lessons for 3 months last winter and his tutor gave up, saying he couldn't teach DS anything - he just didn't retain it.
He doesn't really have any friends and is ostracised for being a loner/difficult.

I have talked to the local college and they won't take him until he either fails his GCSEs or gets thrown out of school for bad behaviour. He isn't badly behaved and all his teachers like him. He thinks he is disliked by everyone at school mainly for his strange behavioural tics.

Sorry for the uncoordinated posting, I just need to know what the heck to DO?
I haven't bought him new shoes for school as I was hoping that he wouldn't end up going back - now I know the college can't take him, I'm not sure.

I would home ed him if I could but I'm a lone parent and self employed - it would put me out of business and it would be hard to pick up again at my age after a year out.
Apart from that I tutored him through one GCSE in English last term and it was so hard. Like picking up soup with a fork.

Any suggestions?

OP posts:
Ingles2 · 05/09/2012 16:38

hi...sorry, busy with work...
well if he is having 121 and as a laptop provided that must mean that he is already under the care of the senco (who is teacher or TA or deals with children with any kind of special need)
Hopefully you've already heard from the school after your email... but you need to organise a face to face meeting now with Hof Y and the SENCO to discuss your sons academic needs, ie what they are doing to help him achieve his targets, but also his pastoral care. They need to be aware that he is unhappy, that he is becoming a refuser and that measures need to be put in place to protect him from bullying and make him feel like a valuable member of the school community.
I'm afraid to say if your school is anything like mine, you'll have to make your point, then chase it up and push hard to get the result you want and your son deserves.
Have you sat down with ds and talked frankly about what he doesn't like, what changes he'd like to make? Well worth doing and will show your ds you're on his side too...
There are always part time and flexible options at school... as far as I know they have to accommodate the needs of all children.. My friends yr 10 dd has ME and attends 1 lesson a day at the moment, so it is possible.

flow4 · 05/09/2012 20:59

You child doesn't need a statement for the SENCO to be involved... Any child with any learning problem should have and Individual Educational/Learning Plan (IEP/ILP). :) It does sound like your son may have this already tho'...

NEET = 'not in education, employment or training'. What young people shouldn't be! :(

There sadly aren't always p/t options at schools... It's entirely up to the school whether they offer this, and some are much less accommodating than others.

An online/virtual school might be a good idea. Some (most?) schools/LAs have their own as an option for kids who get excluded or are school refusers... Or there are ones online like this.

gemblags1980 · 05/09/2012 21:41

Hi it sounds like you are both going through a bad time, reading your post sounds exactly like me at your sons age. What helped for me is smaller group teaching which was more interactive, once I had that intense teaching I then progressed to having support in class to having no support, except for my physical disability. I am now a trainer who specialises in working with people like your son, and use my experience of education, and what I have achieved since to try and help others. I would be happy to talk with you both further if you wish just send me a message on here if you want to do that.

To get access to that, I did have to have a statement of special educational needs , the advisory centre for education is n excellent source for guiding parents through the process
Good luck
Gemma

CuttedUpPear · 05/09/2012 22:22

Ah yes...thanks for your posts today. DS does have an ILP.

flow4 - so sorry for your situation, it's so worrying isn't it?

If DS could have smaller group teaching that would be good.

Unfortunately I have been out all day and just come home to an email from the school telling me that they are having problems with their email system - so this means they haven't even received my momentous email from this morning. Argh.

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lljkk · 07/09/2012 04:16

Home ed, says my gut instinct, the beauty of HE at this age is that he does something educational every day, it's enough as long as he makes some daily progress no matter how small (how can it be less than what he is currently learning?), but you don't take the on the role of teaching him, it's more like a facilitator role. He says he'd like to learn about X & you together work out a plan for him to find out more about X, and how he can show that learning (building or writing or talking, whichever). Should not require you to give up work at all, just a few hours snatched here and there, most days, to give feedback & discuss & plan next things to do. Keep the learning objectives very small, at least to start.

But would he be happy just kicking around home most days? Would he get lonely & too stuck inside his own head? Would he need constant encouragement to get any work done or would he try to play games & facebook all day every day?

CuttedUpPear · 07/09/2012 08:40

He is happiest at home, his only friends are online and one of our neighbours' children. This is part of the reason why he hates school, he can't deal wit all the people there.

However he would need constant encouragement, he has been the same since primary school and now that Minecraft exists my problem is harder to tackle.

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kweggie · 07/09/2012 09:00

so sorry to read about your son's unhappiness, I know from experience how difficult it is for both of you.

Firstly, share it with friends who are supportive. This situation can make parents feel crap as well as children, and a problem shared.....BOTH of you need to feel supported.

Ring your nearest Dyslexia institute and ask for advice. They are used to this scenario which is sadly not rare.
Encourage your son in a new or existing interest -it's important he has success in some part of his life.

You have a right to feel angry- children are not all the same and the system is letting you down. Use your anger as a fuel-don't give in! You need to talk to the people at school and/or the education department who should be helping him. Take some-one with you if possible. make a LIST of what you want to happen. Give deadlines.Chase them up.

Carry on telling your son you are on his side. It's important to keep connected and to keep connections with the 'outside world' alive, which is harder when you are self-employed.

With very best wishes to you both. Your love will keep you strong.

lljkk · 07/09/2012 13:34

I share your Minecraft pain. Still, it's better than whinging for access to COD & MWarfare.

How bad would it be if you just gave the HomeEd a 3.5 month trial, would it be any worse academically then what's happening now & in last school term?

I am not a rampant HEr, btw, anything but really, but sometimes HE seems like exactly the right way forward.

OpheliasWeepingWillow · 07/09/2012 13:40

Sorry no advice OP but you sound like you are doing a brilliant job. Good luck.

CuttedUpPear · 08/09/2012 21:10

kweggie why do you suggest a Dyslexia Institute? DS isn't dyslexic in any degree.

lljkk I really like your suggestion of a 3.5 month home ed trial. That would help with our schedule of learning, which I have fears for. It doesn't actually exist yet, but I was hoping to check with the school what their schedule is and try to follow it at home.

I now have a meeting with school but DS has made it clear that he never wants to cross their threshold again. Sad - for his pain really.

OP posts:
bossboggle · 09/09/2012 08:32

Oh Cutter my heart goes out to you and your son!! Would agree find the SENCO in school and find out what they are willing to do to help him!! My DD is disabled and went right through school with special needs!! I hate to say it but sometimes you have to get very very very big boots on and start kicking doors in and back your son all the way!! He is the most important person in all of this and I will also say that he has to move on to college and the rest of his life so you need to be totally supportive of him. I know it's a while before he leaves school and goes to college but that day will come. And SO TOTALLY DON'T STRESS OVER ANY EXAMS - NOT WORTH IT!! My DD's school 'insisted' that my DD do certain GCSE's and I just stepped in and told them in no uncertain terms that she was not able to do them and we agreed what she could attempt and what should be left alone!! As regards the 'special needs' status - go see them now - don't wait for the diagnosis - big boots - little doors - beat them in if you have to and GET VERY PERSISTENT but in a nice way - don't let anything drop or let them think you've gone away - get down to the school, get talking and I so hope things improve for you and your son soon - his happiness and health and your sanity is the key - everything else comes second - been there done it and worn the tee shirt!! Best wishes!! Smile

flow4 · 09/09/2012 09:43

I was going to ask how it went on Thursday, Cutted, but I assume your son refused to go?

Here's a bit more 'hindsight advice' from me... Hmm

If I were you, I would not plan to follow the learning schedule the school has planned. Firstly, you're not a teacher (are you?); but more importantly, this is the exactly learning that hasn't been working well for your son. The English national curriculum is fundamentally flawed, imo, because it does not cater for 'experiential learners' - i.e. people who learn by doing rather than sitting still and listening. Since your DS has a possible diagnosis of AHDH, I would pretty much guarantee he is one of these, and that many of his problems at school stem from the fact that most of the learning is simply not designed for the way he learns. As my son (poignantly) put it, when he was in year 9, "I feel like I'm in trouble all the time, just for being me".

Home education and school learning are very different - the latter is significantly shaped by the environment: large numbers of people learning together, the need to find a lesson that will 'work' for all or most of them (though not our own particular kids), and a lack of access to basic things you can learn loads from, like a kitchen or a garden! You have an advantage at home, because it's a much richer environment, and it's specially 'designed' to suit your son.

You can plan learning that uses the things he likes, feel confident with, is interested in, is good at, etc. You can build on his strengths, rather than struggling with his weaknesses. You can - absolutely crucially - make sure he is doing and therefore almost inevitably learning as he goes along... Rather than trying to sit still, read and listen, and therefore (probably) disengaged and struggling.

My other big lesson (one I only learned too late) is that when it comes to keeping kids engaged in education, it doesn't matter what they learn, it matters that they keep their enthusiasm and momentum. My son lost his about 3 years ago, and hasn't yet found them again... He is now really struggling with low self-esteem and low confidence, and has lost important habits and acquired some very negative, unhelpful (and I'd say untrue) beliefs: he has forgotten that learning can be enjoyable, that it can be its own reward; it has been so long since any school/college offered him something he was interested in, that he can barely remember how to be interested; he thinks he is stupid, and believes 'learning is not for me'; he is terrified of going back to college (and is currently refusing) because he recognises he has lost skills - like listening and concentrating and asking the 'right' questions - that he found hard to acquire in the first place; he has developed all sorts of tactics for dealing with being bored, and expects to be bored whenever adults are involved :(

When I look back, I can see that my son has had perhaps a total of 8 weeks (a generous estimate) in the past 4 years where he has been offered something he actually wanted to do... He now really struggles to even conceive that 'something he wants to do' might actually exist... So it's hardly surprising he's feeling alienated and disengaged. I look around and I see lots of other kids (boys especially) in the same situation, and I think as a society we are failing them badly. :(

My instincts tell me that if your DS is curled up on his bed refusing to go to school and feeling miserable, the solution (or possible solution) is to offer him something he wants to do, and something that allows him to do (not sit still, read and listen). School won't give him that. Home ed might, if you break free of the school's 'learning schedule' and create something for him. :)

CuttedUpPear · 09/09/2012 11:42

Thanks flow4 for your long post - I'll have to come back and read it again later as I am going out to start collecting our winter wood today.

Well you're right, DS didn't go to school on Thurs, but not because he refused, I think he would have gone if I had made him but I didn't, much to his relief. I felt lighter too.

The school want to meet me tomorrow afternoon. DS was supposed to be coming in but he is adamant that he never wants to go there again. I think I need to talk to them about when his exams would be - I still want him to sit at least some of them and I think he is ok about this too, he knows he needs some to get to college to learn a trade. Or rather he is in the belief he needs them , as the college will be flexible I know, but I don't want the work DS has already done to be wasted and I don't want DS to get out of the habit of structured learning with some targets - I hope this is the right approach.

I am really clueless about how to start, I've got another thread about books, but no I'm not a teacher (although I did used to TEAFL).

It doesn't help that my DP is really against me letting DS stop school. There's a lot of tension between us on the subject but I will not let him (he is not DS's dad) get in the way of what I feel is right, even if it, sadly, means losing my 5yr relationship with him.

OP posts:
SuoceraBlues · 09/09/2012 12:18

If all else fails, and you are ok about him being home alone and getting on with school while you are at work, there are these options...

www.interhigh.co.uk/
www.academus.org.uk/ ( site down upgrade at the mo.)
www.firstcollege.co.uk/
www.briteschool.co.uk/

There are others but I'll have to hunt them down.

Some of them have LA funded places for kids who for one reason or the other are having issues attending school.

I'm finding it a happy middle ground between bricks and mortar school and HE.

SuoceraBlues · 09/09/2012 12:19

bugger,

fouled up the links AGAIN!

www.interhigh.co.uk/
www.academus.org.uk/ ( site down upgrade at the mo.)
www.firstcollege.co.uk/
www.briteschool.co.uk/

Juule · 09/09/2012 14:56

CuttedUpPear I strongly agree with Flow4.
I would think restoring your son's self esteem is a priority at this point in time. Even if he doesn't pass any exams this year it isn't his final chance to do so. If he wants to go to blacksmith college why not work out a l

Juule · 09/09/2012 14:58

loose timetable with him of the best way to reach that goal.

lljkk · 09/09/2012 15:34

I'm another one for voting that you move away from NC timetable & targets. I don't know the exact alternatives, but another beauty of HE is it gives scope for creative thinking, and the NC is so flippin' prescriptive.

I have this discussion already with 10yo DD about her writing (long rant deleted).

Couldn't he plan to take his GCSEs a year later, I think?

One idea (one of many):
You sit down together & ask him what he would like to improve in obvious subject areas (like English & maths), make a list of goals, mostly small ones that you both think are realistic with a few hours effort, and suggest very small targets he could set himself for improvement each week towards achieving each goal. Then work out a plan for him to tackle the targets. Important that if he gets stuck, he's just to put it aside & see if he can work on something easier in his target list for the week. If it all looks too hard, then so be it, let it go for the day & be willing to change targets to something easier if need be. Next available opportunity he tells you about where he got stuck & you help him work thru the stuck points. So hopefully by end of the week he can tick off many targets & ready to set some new ones.

About restoring confidence, definitely.

quirrelquarrel · 10/09/2012 19:08

Read your OP and wish I could hug your poor son :-(

I don't think it should be a case of 'get back on the horse and face it'.....I think people who are saying get him signed off school are right. He sounds very unhappy. Going to a place which is all bad, all miserable every day is not good and preys on your mind long after you leave. Specially at that age.

CuttedUpPear · 10/09/2012 22:25

I've had a meeting with school today (DS wouldn't come with me) and it was quite encouraging.
They have offered to recommend him to the Pupil Referral Service which runs one on one tutoring in main GCSE subjects for 5 hrs a week. It's in an annex of the lovely old (and posh) library in our town.
Then I would back up with home edding in the other subjects. DS would qualify on emotional and psychological grounds, the school believes.

It's a great relief to me as it would mean not having to give up work, with this support and with DS's pastoral care and schedule still being attached to school.

Although I got DS's results for the GCSE units he sat last term - 4 Ds and a U. Sad

OP posts:
flow4 · 10/09/2012 23:10

Sounds like progress :) Well done!

And really, don't fret too much about the GCSEs. Many FE courses will accept other qualifications, or will interview and appoint on their own judgement about a student. Many more enrol students for English/Maths alongside the main course if necessary. Most HE institutions accept mature students who come through an 'access' course, with no GCSEs at all (I know; I used to teach on one). And if he wants to do a course that absolutely demands GCSEs, then he can come back and do them in a year or two or more.

We have this idea that qualifications 'must' be done at the 'right' time, but it's nonsense really... Imo, it would be much better for many teens to take a year or two out and gain a bit more maturity, if they can keep their enthusiasm and motivation for learning and life meanwhile... :)

CuttedUpPear · 10/09/2012 23:59

Wise words flow4. My main concern is that DS wants to spend every waking moment on Minecraft. He doesn't, I make sure of that, but he is very argumentative about it. It's hard to see where there is space in the day to learn through living itself.

It's a constant battle and I actually confiscated the netbook he's using this afternoon, for rude behaviour towards me and DD. Weirdly, DS has been asleep almost the whole time since then - looks like he had some catching up to do.

OP posts:
flow4 · 11/09/2012 03:45

Ah now, that's another issue! My friend who is currently home educating a teen has a ban on 'social technology' (games, Facebook, texting, etc.) during learning hours. Both of the HEing families I know (well enough to have been in their homes) have 'learning space' that is not their kids' bedrooms (one in a dedicated room, one just in their dining room), so PS3s etc are not a distraction while learning is going on. Perhaps you could try these tricks?!

BTW, my own DS2 is trying to persuade me to buy Minecraft at the mo... So far I'm resisting... :)

Juule · 11/09/2012 19:56

Cutted Your ds playing Minecraft might not be so bad.
Using Minecraft to Create Engaging Learning Experiences :)

CuttedUpPear · 11/09/2012 20:22

I know that Minecraft is the lesser of many evils. It's just the time it takes up - DS would rather live in cyberspace than the real world.

Thanks for the link Juule, I'll check it out.

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