Classic style doesn't mean it doesn't change

[putalidonit]

I've read so many times people claiming that they don't follow trends. They say classics styles never date. Sometimes they go in to list some items along the lines of:

Blazers
Pencil skirts
Skinny jeans
Grey cashmere sweater
White shirt etc

I dispute this wholeheartedly!!!
Whilst I agree blazers and jeans and sweaters and shirts as categories are classic, the shape and style of each is absolutely trend led. There is no single shirt or blazer that is constant and always in style.

What surprises me is that some of the people proclaiming certain things are classic are old enough to know they aren't! Skinny jeans were not a thing in the 80s or 90s unless you were rocking a niche rockabilly look. The ones in the early 60s had a very high waist. The ones in the 2000s were low rise descending to crack revealing, the later versions were again high rise. Now they as an overall style are dated again.

White shirts have been fitted, oversized, man style, feminine, flouncy...and when one or two of those styles are in one or two would be definitely dated looking.

A small fitted blazer looks wrong atm. Oversized shoulder pads would have looked mental in 2000,

Categories of clothing may be classic but so style is perennial and people who don't shift just end up looking very dated and the complete opposite of stylish.

I've just been going through some boxes of old clothes. My pencil skirts are too short. They are just above the knee and it looks all wrong. My silk slip dresses are also wrong. Not long enough. Not short enough.

People are deluded if they think they are being stylish if they stick in a rut. I find it is people who are late adopters who do this. They do eventually adopt but just as a tend is waning and then because that particular trend has been around for a few years by then, they scathing declare that they are 'above' trends and like to think for themselves and they know what suits them. Makes me chuckle and roll my eyes. It wouldn't bother me except these people are always so dismissive and patronising suggesting anyone who enjoys and adopts new styles is a sheep and that they themselves are better

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I definitely agree with this. I have three blazers and the only one you could argue is classic is basically smart workwear and has never felt current. I then have one fitted and one oversized and clearly the oversized one is more on trend right now.

I just wish we didn’t judge each other so much. Particularly that idea that we should be above trivial ideas of pretty, fashionable clothes. And particularly on the Style and Beauty board.

Ah but someone will be along any minute to point out that this is the Style and Beauty board, not the fashion board!

Agree that the so called classics are as subject to fashion as any other clothing. I saw a trench coat the other day that dated, as a guess, from the early noughties. It was short, very fussy and all in all looked very strange indeed - but it will probably come around again at some point.

There was a thread recently which highlighted repeatedly that many can't differentiate between an item of clothing and a fashion trend. Blazers are the best example of this conflation between the two - many don't understand it's not the item itself that is on trend, it's rather its cut, its lapels, its detailing, fit etc.

Skinny jeans were not a thing in the 80s or 90s unless you were rocking a niche rockabilly look

I respectfully disagree. I had some as a kid. They were called drainpipe jeans. I wore them constantly in the early 80s until Levi 501s became all the rage.

White shirts are probably the most reinvented item, so even if a particular style is not on trend now, it will be again in a few seasons time. For some, a white shirt full stop is their thing. They will wear them in whichever style they fancy, irregardless of if it's in fashion or not.

Re. pencil skirts and grey cashmere, both staples of my mother's 80s and 90s wardrobe (the latter of which I still wear). The cashmere, from N. Peal, TSE and Givenchy, are all simple crew or polo necks, styles that transcend trends. The pencil skirts range from Valentino thick black satin to YSL leather. None are knee-length, instead a few inches longer. This has prevented them from dating in the way yours have. If I could zip them up properly, I would happily wear them still if I had reason to.

My collection of slip dresses bought in the late 90s/early 00s are all mid-calf, The ones I have purchased from Raey over the past few years are also the same length.

While I do understand what you are saying, if one buys carefully and considers the potential longevity of the item, then it is possible to avoid things that will quickly go out of fashion. I do feel that many are rejecting trend-led fashion and looking for pieces that last.

I think 'classic' styles will remain wearable for longer than high fashion items but ultimately they will still date and look all wrong

@bunnybunnybunnybunny I respectfully disagree. I had some as a kid. They were called drainpipe jeans. I wore them constantly in the early 80s until Levi 501s became all the rage.
So you don't actually disagree with the premise of what i said. Just the dates. I said 80s. You say mid 80s. Ok. Once 501s (not tight) jeans became the thing, drainpipes weren't . Also, drainpipes were not the same as skinnies worn 10 years ago. They were rigid denim. They didn't have the jegging quality. As with all things, the details made them completely different which is the point I am making.

White shirts are probably the most reinvented item, so even if a particular style is not on trend now, it will be again in a few seasons time.*
Yes and they are languishing in the back of the wardrobe waiting for their moment because they are nit a classic style that never dated. They are dated and hoping for a return. Sadly when the look returns, often the old ones are just not quite right. As I mentioned with the jeans where the rise is different or the wash/degree of distressing etc. same with shirts. I've held on to things for decades and as I go through them now I realise, they just are but quite right.

The pencil skirts you speak of having may be great now. But they have been completely off trend for years so probably were waiting for their moment like the shirts aforementioned. Had you worn them during a season of boho or frilly or Mimi's they would just have looked dated. Great you keep them because they are something that can realistically come around again. Another issue is though that by the time they come around sometimes we have changed. Shape/lifestyle etc and they no longer work.
^
In any case I am taking about people who never retire clothes waiting to bring them out. They just criticise people who follow fashion as lacking style or originality (the irony) and continue wearing dated clothes telling themselves that they are classic. You do that precisely because you KNOW when then are and are not on trend so you don't wear them when they look wrong. You aren't one of those people.^

Skinny jeans were not a thing in the 80s or 90s
I wore them in the 1980s. and they were called drainpipes.

Classics are things like Levi 501s, Burberry trench coat, pencil skirt, fitted crisp white shirt, breton top, LBD etc.
They don't change because they don't need to.

They won't always be fashionable, but they'll come back round.

I think it's hard to spot the changes til you try the older stuff on and then it's obvious with just a few exceptions.

Drainpipes were stiff denim, they didn't have stretch jeans with elastic in til a bit later and they certainly weren't ubiquitous like skinnies/jeggings.

Shirts- if you watch 80's shows on TV now, the shirts appear voluminous! Kind of cool. My children wear retro 80's and 90's stuff for fun but it's with a modern twist, oversized stuff.

Blazers have absolutely changed, my jackets from before the pandemic are looking over-structured, looser baggier slackets and big jackets look more current.

I think office wear in general is out.

I'm not saying you can't recycle anything, of course you can, but very few things aren't of their time. That's why retro and vintage are in, my girls actively want those looks.

Yes, boho was a trend, but I couldn't have worn it into a corporate workplace. During that period of time, I wore a McQueen skirt suit a lot. It had a pencil skirt. I also had a tiered Miu Miu peasant skirt I practically lived in outside of work. In this instance, it's about wearing the relevant style for the environment one is in.

The skinny jeans I wore as an adult weren't jeggings. Jeggings are a hybrid of jeans and leggings, more the latter rather than the former. I wore Citizens Of Humanity Rocket High Rise jeans as the Topshop Moto Jamie style were too low-waisted for me. Gosh, I loved my CoH skinnies, but haven't worn them since 2017 as I prefer a looser legged jean (MiH Linda which thankfully I bought loads of pairs of as the style is no longer in production). But, as skinny jeans are still worn and considered fashionable by some, I could still wear my CoH skinnies quite happily. They haven't dated, even though I do think skinny jeans are dated. But yes, the skinny jeans I wore in my 30s has a far higher lycra and elastane content than my drainpipe jeans I wore as a child. But my drainpipe jeans weren't totally rigid either.

I do agree with your final point. The thing is though, many people just don't care about being fashionable or even stylish. And do you know something, so long as they're happy, it's not for me to care should they decide to criticise me. I don't know about you, but I couldn't really give a stuff what a stranger thinks of how I dress, particularly if I don't think they're best placed to proffer an opinion anyway

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Quite right not to care about other people's opinions of how we dress. What I find frustrating is, I actually enjoy talking about this kind of stuff. I'm fascinated by fashion cycles - how has that trenchcoat I mentioned upthread (a Burberry as it happens) come to look so 'off' today when it would have looked perfectly normal 15 years ago? I'm perfectly happy for people who aren't interested to just ignore the conversation but that doesn't seem to happen any more on here.

I agree with this, and you’ve articulated it very well.

Drainpipe jeans were stretchy. The must have jeans of my early teens (central London, early 80s) were really very similar to the skinny jeans of today. £10 from Clockhouse at C&A or Topshop. Or you'd get second hand 501 from Flip (vintage US clothing store) and take them in - this was less preferable as they were harder to put on, and harder to wear. Lycra drainpipes were where it was at.

I'd say some designs are enduring timeless classic though eg:
501s
Converse All Star boots and shoes
Traditional Arran and Fair Isle sweaters
Duffle coats and donkey jackets

Although fashionable tweaks are made to these, the "originals" don't date (in my opinion, but that is just me).

@Floisme , it was me who mentioned it, I think.
I think that the BTC will still look great on some, even if not fashionable.
I had one about 15 years ago but I sold it - the style didn't work for me somehow (inverted triangle, average height - coat double breasted and long)

This sort of thread was on here recently. My thought is that if you buy something that is a 'classic' it needs to be very plain, safe or simple, or be the genuine article, to not date, and it needs to fit you and suit your physique.

Isn't it how you wear something that makes it stylish?

A very simple white shirt/pencil skirt/straight leg jeans will probably not be fashionable but could be styled for the current fashion

If you look and feel great in something you might be stylish, but you might not be fashionable.

I'd say some designs are enduring timeless classic though eg:
501s
Converse All Star boots and shoes
Traditional Arran and Fair Isle sweaters
Duffle coats and donkey jackets

Gansey
Barbour
DMs
Breton/Mariniere
Kilt
Navy cashmere jumper
Green wellies
Newlyn smock/Chore jacket
Black leather biker jacket
Denim jacket
Mac
Supergas

I have most of these. Some are for a particular task (smock for painting or gardening, wellies for muddy walks etc)

Think Monty Don - stylish but not fashionable

@IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads , it's not just you.

I think though that there's a sort of classic dress that looks good, but not in style if that makes sense?

And it will integrate peices that are perhaps a bit more dated with say an updated white shirt.

I'm not a classic dresser, but there's people all the time I see that look great but not perhaps on trend.

I don't think you need to chuckle and roll your eyes. I think it's that attitude that makes it difficult to engage in a discussion because there's always that sense of I'm better than you

I think you can quite easily make say an old fashioned slip dress look modern or stylish

Maybe not like neon leg warmers or something, but something well made and well fitting does look good even if it's a bit different to what the shops are selling.

Skinny jeans WERE a thing in the 80s (not 90s), they were often marble denim and had zips at the bottom, to help get them on. I had a pair! There were sketches on tv making fun of people not being able to get them on, I remember!

You claim in your OP that people who pride themselves on having their own style and sticking to it and not following 'the fashions' tend to be dismissive and patronising, but this comment in turn is dismissive and patronising towards people who like a particular look that is less fashionable. It's rude and insulting to claim that someone 'looks all wrong' and their clothes are 'unwearable' just because they are less popular and so fashionable at any one time.

In fact, I had to buy a pair because I couldn’t get them off in the changing room!

Yes, my 80s skinny/drainpipes had lycra or something in them. From Kumar Bros in Liverpool. Needed to lie on the bed with a coat hanger in the zip to pull them up (and I was a very slim, flat stomached 17-year old then). But needed tugging off to get them over your feet.

A white shirt certainly doesn't suit everyone - can something be a classic if not everyone can wear one?

A white shirt certainly doesn't suit everyone - can something be a classic if not everyone can wear one?

But is there anything that everyone can wear and look good in? I think the barrier to a classic would be lower than that: something that a significant proportion of people look good in and that enjoyed a significant presence. I think a white shirt would fit into that description. Part of its classic status might be owed to the fact that in some situations, it's seen as a standard (a staple choice to a lot of formal wear) or even a requirement (black tie). I'll say this even though I also look better in some other shades.

Do you remember Gloria Vanderbilt jeans in late 70s early 80s they were stretchy

Remember taking flares in to become drainpipes

Don't white shirts become grubby or yellow after a while

I used to shop in Kumar Brothers!
Yes, something can be a classic if it doesn't suit you, but you'd need to style it to suit you, or you could choose not to wear it.

Remember taking flares in to become drainpipes

Yes! My brother's mates gave me their trousers to take in 😃