OK. Define 'mutton'.

[AFierceBadRabbit]

Because I just don't get it, unless we're talking a 60 yr old wearing a mini bodycon dress with low neckline?
'Booty' shorts on the over 50's?

If you have the figure who really cares?

Isn't it just another way of looking down on someone - similar to having so-called 'chavvy' tastes?

Or is it a deeply ingrained fear of shocking someone from the front after tempting them from behind?

I think it is a derogatory term that I can't imagine ever using against myself. Why do women even engage in this?

[AFierceBadRabbit]

I'd honestly be more concerned about the mindset of the one 'staring open mouthed' than the so called mutton offender.
Such judgement, as if staring down from one's pedestal of righteousness is surely more offensive.

What on earth does it matter? Do you also take this stance with muttony men?
I think I'd rather be the 'mutton' than the cat's bum face judging it!

The day all of us just quit judging other women's bodies altogether won't come a day too frigging soon.

[Bluntness100]

I think people are reading a bit much into this and looking to be offended.

Yes, certain clothes are orientated towards certain demographics and other demographics wearing them can look a bit silly to others. Doesn't mean the wearer can't still wear them.

If I saw a seventy year old woman in a bum skimming mini skirt and doc MARTIN boots I would not think it appropriate attire. I wouldn't use the phrase but it does demonstrate how clothing can be orientated to different age groups.

In addition both mutton and lamb are gender nuetral. And I've heard the phrase used about men. Simply because we are staring to see more men do it now than we did years ago.

[boldlygoingsomewhere]

Love that article! Personally, I find it really inspiring to see older women still having fun with fashion and not being afraid to disregard the 'rules'. Vivienne Westwood still rocks as far as I'm concerned even if it's not my personal style.

Must admit, until I came to MN, I never realised quite how much women are being judged. ff or bf, baby led weaning or mush, child carried in sling, child in pushchair when deemed too old, dummy or no dummy...it's insane! I knew other people were potentially judging me on looks (thank you women's mags!) but the other stuff was not on my radar at all. Personally, I admire people who have an individual style and the confidence to not give a shit what other people think.

[user1471545174]

The phrase has nothing to do with comfort and Birkenstocks - quite the opposite!

[taybert]

Yeah, I think she realised after she'd said it. So at what age do we worry about being mutton and start dressing conservatively so people can call us frumpy instead?

[LadyOfTheCanyon]

As an aside, my all ladies quiz team of over 40s is called Atomic Mutton.

[Tisgrand]

"If I saw a seventy year old woman in a bum skimming mini skirt and doc MARTIN boots I would not think it appropriate attire."

Appropriate for what though? And who are you to judge?

[Lweji]

If I saw a seventy year old woman in a bum skimming mini skirt and doc MARTIN boots I would not think it appropriate attire.

I don't think a bum skimming mini skirt is appropriate for teenagers or early 20s either.


Why the Dr Martens boots? What's wrong with them?

You're right about Doc Martin boots, though. Counterfeit boots should never be worn.

[kneesupfatty]

To be honest, if I saw a 70 year old in a mini skirt and Docs, I'd just smile and think good on her.
The only person I can imagine using this term is my mother, who is 65. But, I've never heard a single one of my friends use any of the terms talked about on Mumsnet (mumsy, frumpy, mutton...). I make a conscious effort not to look 'frumpy' myself, but I honestly never think of other women in these terms. In fact, apart from noticing particularly well dressed women (and stealing their style ideas probably only in my dreams ) I really don't care what other women chose to wear. But then, I am a bit of a hippy at heart: live and let live!

[stevie69]

I was asked once: 'Do you want to look like mutton dressed as lamb?' My answer was that it was preferable to looking like mutton dressed as mutton.

Indeed there is nothing wrong with ageing; in fact it's inevitable. However, some of us just don't cope with it well and our mid-life crises (short skirts, sports car, wild hairstyles and piercings) keep our heads together.

So ... for those who wish to age gracefully, enjoy. And for those of us who don't ....get in there. You may only live once ....

[Floisme]

I'm perfectly aware that my looks have changed and that some things don't look as good as they did before (although still my choice and I very much doubt you'd even notice as no-one looks at a 60 year-old woman).
But can someone please explain why Dr Martens boots, which have been around for over 100 years, should be the preserve of young people?

That's not style advice, that's the style police.

[stevie69]

Oh .... and I LOVE all my Dr Martens. The only essential footwear I own. Well, unless you count my running shoes ....

[specialsubject]

Looks like 'completely wrong clothes for the situation' is the real issue. Beyond bunches, t shirts with frozen characters on and babygros, there isn't much that adults of any age shouldn't wear.

Laughing at the idea that comfortable and practical equals " mutton*. Trying to do anything practical in stupid heels and a tight short skirt does look ridiculous, but isn't age related. I will come clean and admit I watch casualty - 'Connie' is a pantomime villain and wears too short trousers, ugly spike heels and shapeless blouses, and is seen thudding around as she tries to walk. That actress really earns her money looking that awful - but would at any age.

And ripped clothes are also a joke on any age.

[TreehouseRose]

Flo- dr martens were not made with fashion in mind, they are a cult item rather than fashion item. Perhaps older people aren't interested in them rather than feeling they would love to wear them but don't dare to. I'm not that old, but I've done my dm boots when I was 16 and wouldn't want to go back there again, it would be weird. They're not even that flattering on the ankle.

[Floisme]

Yes I know. if I followed your rule of not repeating looks from my past then frankly I would never leave the house. Everything in fashion right now is a repeat - much of it third time round.

[kneesupfatty]

Well I'm 37 and I wear Doc Marten boots almost all the time - they suit me and I only ever get compliments about them - I really hope that I won't get to an age when I'm not allowed to wear them anymore...

[TreehouseRose]

It's not a rule. Dr martens in particular are associated with students and people outside of social conventions (though in a way, wearing them as if to prove one's individuality, creates almost the reverse effect). Dr martens are hard to wear casually or without statement because they are such a cult statement.

I happily wear all sorts that's already been around. I pick and choose though. Usydlky the flavour of a detail is enough. E.g. These days I might wear studded (like Ash boots) or short ankle black biker boots instead of the dm boots I would have worn at 16.

[Floisme]

If young people wish to claim sole rights to a look then maybe they should create one instead of copying their parents.

[TreehouseRose]

Flo- go and buy yourself some dm boots this weekend and wear with pride!

[Floisme]

I already do I'm saving for new ones from the Made in England range which, at that price, had better last me the rest of my life.

[previously1474etc]

I have a pair of genuine vintage (old) DMs, I am in my 60's. I also have some boots in the same style which I wear with leggings, a long jumper and a flying jacket or a long skirt. I like the look, and I feel comfortable in it. I have also had compliments about it.I have often browsed for Docs but am aware that the quality is not so good.

My neighbour is older than me and wears clothes from H&M, Zara etc. which I can't wear, she has some 'young' outfits and she looks great in them.

My gripe is that I want to wear some of the clothes I see and I feel unable to because I am too old and wouldn't feel comfortable. I have become mostly invisible and I am used to it, my confidence is gone. I am currently struggling to find jeans that are slim but not skinny, and I like the worn look (not holes) but am afraid of wearing it. It would be on a par with a man of similar age wearing those jackets that look as if they shrunk in the wash and what I call (rightly or wrongly) estate agents shirts (tight fitting, look too small) and the trousers that look as if they were short on fabric.

I have a plan to get myself looking good again but it is a struggle. Pink hair colour is waiting, mutton or not.

[taybert]

I think Docs are pretty mainstream really. I don't see them as a statement. I see them as shoes. You know what though, if you don't feel like you want to wear them now, that's fine, but that doesn't mean someone who does is wrong or even that they're making the statement that you feel you would be making if you were wearing them.

[Floisme]

H&M is one of my favourite shops. They're very good at mainstream basics with a modern twist. Most people think it's Whistles.

I did struggle at first with becoming invisible but it's actually given me more confidence. I figure no-ones looking at me so I may as well enjoy myself.

Clothes are nothing to be afraid of. They're fun and a great distraction from growing old, some of which is not in the least bit fun.

[TreehouseRose]

I saw a lady of probably 70 in our local village, she was glam in an understated way (a bit Rita from Corrie), she had pink hair (similar cut to Rita's) and looked so amazing and happy I stopped her to tell her she looked great. It was a soft candy pink, not. as pale as a pink rinse but not bright pink. If you want pink hair, go for it!

[TreehouseRose]

And Helen Mirren had pink hair the other year and also looked amazing.