What's your definition of frumpy?

[stripytees]

I don't know if this is an MN thing but I'm always seeing people saying clothes from brands like Boden and White Stuff are frumpy.

I don't understand.

My definition of frumpy is someone who dresses very plain and quite old-fashioned - like black or navy work trousers (probably badly fitting) with a plain t-shirt that was bought 10 years ago and got a bit out of shape, with a cardigan that is slightly too big and probably in an unflattering colour, worn with very sensible shoes like those from the Clarks UnStructured range.

Boden and White Stuff and other similar brands on the other hand sell short, colourful dresses and skirts, scoop neck tops, bright prints, high heels and colourful flats... the opposite of frumpy! But maybe I'm odd because I don't even consider M&S clothes frumpy although I think it's also possible to buy frumpy clothes from M&S.

FWIW I'm in my early 30's.

agree with op, to me frumpy is baggy shapeless dull colours

although boden and fat face has a ceratin er older style its not my idea of frumpy

I like the colours and patterns

Magic I agree about the baggy and shapeless. However "dull" colours like beige, grey, navy and black can be very elegant if the clothes are well cut.

I look really frumpy (and I mean kaftan-wearing-too-many-cats-batshit-crazy) in colours and patterns.

Frumpy to me is lacking confidence, terrible posture, grimacing and being wilfully ignorant of how others perceive you. It's diffident, socially awkward younger people who haven't found themselves yet that run the risk of looking frumpy. In total contrast, Maggie Smith and Judi Dench always look fabulous.

yeah well one persons dull is another subdued

Yes magicpixie, I think there is a different between being frumpy and dressing badly.

It is hard once you reach a certain size to dress in a way that is deemed acceptable to Mumsnet. I have seen the dreaded waterfall cardigans on some bigger ladies and to me it looks quite smart with an impressive bust, equally quite a few of my friends do the Fat Face/White Stuff tunic look and it suits them.

My dear and lovely friend is someone whose fashion I might describe as frumpy. She has a wonderful slim figure but buys the majority of her clothes from Sainsburys or Tescos when doing the grocery shopping and has brought the same summer dress and sandals on holiday for at least the past 8 years. However she genuinely does not care. Fashion is not of interest to her in the slightest. I wish I could be more like her in attitude. I guess I'm just jealous as if I had her figure I'd be out buying even more clothes than I do already. Now I'm a generous size 14 I need to be very careful about proportions.

A few more pet peeves on frumpiness - if you are going to wear one sports item then think about the rest of your outfit, so if wearing your walking jacket then it should be accompanied with walking shoes or boots, not a skirt and high heels. Dangly earrings (the silvery unfashionable ones)with fleeces, a cross body handbag and mum boots - NOOOO. The Boden rainy day mac in the patterns and colours that end up half price in the sale should be banned - it screams "Look at MEEEE I'm wearing BODEN".

Isn't frumpy just a word to throw at middle age women to remind us we are becoming barren invisible? There isn't really a male equivalent because men aren't expected to be judged by their appearance. Just think about that TV presenter who wore the same suit for a year and no-one noticed despite his female colleague constantly getting criticised for her clothes during that same year.

It's also about access to money, someone who has the time and money to get a good haircut and go shopping regularly will be less 'frumpy' than someone who is struggling financially or timewise. I think it's acknowledged that most women concentrate less on their looks when they have young children but can get it together again after they are through the baby stage.

It seems it's easy to avoid being frumpy if you are young, slim, beautiful and rich but takes a lot of work if you are older, a bit overweight, average looking and poor. Sure there are older/plump/poor people who work hard at their appearance and look great but the more of that list applies to you the more frumpy you are likely to be.

I also think what some people on here describe as frumpy is just 'non-metropolitan', in the same way that the middle class rural characters in Jane Austen novels wore 'country fashions' that were looked down on by the richer characters.

There's also an element of whatever a woman wears it says something and sometimes a groomed look isn't actually the look you want. I'm a scientist, if I turned up to work in uber fashionable or stylish clothes, killer heels, with my nails done and a faceful of makeup I wouldn't be taken seriously. Being a bit frumpy according to some of the stricter definitions on here means I'm acknowledged for my brain rather than how attractive I am, I can only think of one of the senior female managers who I'd consider really stylish. And none of the men! Obviously that isn't true in all industries.

What on earth is wrong with dangly [unfashionable] silver earrings? Which earrings should we wear?
And what is wrong with an across the body bag?

Or do you mean all of the above ought not to be worn with a fleece or other 'sports' gear?

I totally agree with your definition of frumpy, and would add to the mix boot-cut jeans and 90s style trainers.

"Basic Bitch" is often said by silly fashion types to mean frumpy but it isn't, it's just a sort of Kate Middleton style. I personally very much like that style but it is done to death by those in their 30s so I think when a woman wears skinny jeans, boots, Breton striped top and blazer, people may say it's frumpy, but it's really a million miles away from true frump.

Isn't frumpy just a word to throw at middle age women to remind us we are becoming barren invisible?

No. I had former school friends who were frumpy at 20.
I have current friends who are 78 and look glam.

I'm a scientist, if I turned up to work in uber fashionable or stylish clothes, killer heels, with my nails done and a faceful of makeup I wouldn't be taken seriously.

That is terribly sad and somewhat sexist. I've forgotten her name but there is one woman scientist who is very high profile and wear red leather mini skirts, killer heels and make up (and has long blonde hair.) Why should being fashionable mean you leave your brain on your dressing table?

Sorry if i wasnt clear pinkfrocks. I did mean all the elements together dont work, to be honest i would only wear a zipped fleece when hill walking and i find it odd when people make some effort, but dont think about the whole look.

MN is quite behind though, kickflares are back in fashion and currently the edgiest jean style.

Skinny jeans are best to avoid if you're over size 12.

Actually I can think of quite a few men who dress frumpily but I can't think of a male word for it.

It's odd isn't it - the word "dapper" is a patronising word for a slightly too-well-dressed man but you would never use it to describe a woman. Frump is a word for a slightly not-dressed-well-enough woman and you wouldn't use it to describe a man.

Man Frump clothes - M&S jeans (I remember someone describing a mutual friend's boyfriend as "he looks like he gets his jeans from Marks and Spencers" and she didn't need to say any more ), very white trainers, polo shirt, sticky-up hair (v fash in the 80s and consequently I don't actually really dislike it) etc.

'Basic Bitch' is a whole other category of woman, and Men can be basic too! To me being basic is the worst kind of fashion follower. Think Michael Kors, Ugg boots, Hollister, Jack wills, Superdry. The home is not safe from basicness either, twigs and shit, yankee candles and plaques that say 'home' and 'love' are basic.
Anything which causes the consumer to bypass their personal tastes and part with huge sums of money to have something that everyone else makes me shudder.

Im no fashion guru by any stretch but I like to think I buy stuff I like because it looks nice and makes me feel happy rather than because it says Ugg on it...

Sorry, got a bit ranty there!

I don't think frumpy is about not dressing 'well enough', it's about the style being rather dowdy, unfashionable, or making you look older than your years. An expensive new dress could be frumpy...

There is no parallel word for dressing frumpily for a man but some men dress appallingly.

One of my pet peeves (I have many) is 30something + men in t-shirts, jeans and trainers, ugh. There are a lot of anoraks that need burning too.

My dp is 54 and wears jeans t shirts boots trainers etc. And a duffle coat sometimes! He is very stylish though people always comment and is still a 32 waist which he has been since I met him 23 years ago!

I would have thought anyone posting on this thread would not be truly frumpy, To be really frumpy, would be to have no interest in clothes and to just pick up a new item of clothing from somewhere, usually a chainstore or supermarket, because you need it, not want it. I'm sure truly frumpy people would not be bothered posting on a style and beauty thread and would not have heard of brands like Boden and Whitestuff. Everyone seems to have a different opinion of what frumpy is though.

Male frump is the men I work with, many of whom would have been considered a good catch in their late 20s but a decade later they have gone to seed.

Polo shirts in pastel colours
Pastel v neck acrylic jumpers
Ironic but not really dad cardigans
Porkpie shoes (can't think what they are really called but you know what I mean) or slip-ons (throws up a bit in my mouth)
Beer belly
Blazer worn with stonewashed jeans (it is POSSIBLE to wear a blazer with jeans and look good but it is only for the advanced )
Short straight boring hair (if any hair at all)

Being a frump has as much to do with your state of mind as it does your sartorial choices.

BHS elastic waisted comfy slacks are not enough to ensure frumpiness.

However, BHS elastic waisted comfy slacks and a lack of love from within and without will certainly do the trick.

I went into M&S today and was greeted by a sea of yellow and green cashmillion jumpers. I think they could be called frumpy, in fact this thread came to mind

I think frumpy is not a nice term. I agree with the pp who said it was a way of putting women (not men) down and there are definitely ageist as well as sexist overtones to it. Yes, I realise young people get described as frumpy but usually because they dress older than their age, hence ageism.

Unflattering clothes, lack of style, boring - these are the things I think of as the opposite of stylish and probably most closely correlate to the word frumpy as I understand it. But I don't use the word frumpy because I think it's a bit nasty.

I think frumpy is the new word for square. And square people were always a source of facination for me - how could they care so little about how they looked, I just couldn't get my head around it...and I had more than a squidge of admiration for them.
My mil doesn't value clothes, she's got more important stuff to fill her head - like the odd bit of God bothering, but my mother (83) is obsessed with clothes and she buys and buys at stuff....she's verging on the unhinged. But I guess as long as it keeps her smiling!

I agree with somuchforsubtlety that frumpy can be a negative word as it implies a lack of self-awareness / self-esteem. It is an unfortunate state of mind.
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I'm not sure it's the same thing as 'square', because 'In the Big Bang Theory' all of them, but Penny, are square, but I don't think of Sheldon as frumpy, as he is living life on his terms.

The comments about outfit choices would have more relevance if they correlated with problem social skills. I personally can't stand 3/4 length shorts, but that's not because they're necessarily frumpy. They just don't look good on me.

What length are 3/4 length shorts?

I hate the term "frump". Its just inherently judgemental. Who knows why someone is dressed like they are? You might say faded bootcut jeans and a white t-shirt is frumpy - but you have no idea if the person wearing it can't afford to buy new clothes.

However, I will admit to being entertained by what other people think of as frumpy.

My favourite, on a similar thread, was when one poster adamantly stuck to the argument that wearing trainers/boots and a decent hooded coat with your work clothes when you had a distance to travel and maybe kids to chivvy to childcare first was the absolute definition of frumpy. Apparently anything other that heels or, at a push, brogues (I think) was frumpy

(OK, I'm defeating my own argument here. I think I'm now judging people who judge other people as frumpy )

On the calf.