Ex has got CSA on us

[guaranagal]

I know people will have mixed views on this but here goes, need to get it off my chest.

Today DOH gets his payslip and there is a mysterious deduction of £218. Turns out X has got CSA on to him.

So he is taking home a grand total of £950 a month now.

It's a nightmare. We simply can't cope on the money we have left.

It's a complete waste of time her doing this - obviously vindictive.

We buy EVERYTHING for DSS as she is on benefits (and she gets the child benefit despite us having equal care).

We buy school uniform, all clothes, most food, furniture for his room at both houses, do all school runs so petrol and car upkeep, holidays, days out etc etc etc.

She pays nothing. Not a dime. This has always been the arrangement and we have been happy with it.

Now because she is on benefits, the CSA money doesn't actually go to her. It just offsets her benefits.

So she is worse off (as she is going to have to buy all clothes, uniform etc etc).

We are worse off (£218 a month to be precise).

DSS is worse off (he will have hardly any treats - swimming lessons will have to stop, days out, holidays, parties).

It's not like we were avoiding paying for the child, we were doing everything. But now she has gone and put a giant spanner in the works by crippling us financially.

We are going to have to live on about £20 a week now after all our bills. £50 a week is a LOT of money in these times.

DOH was going to go back to Uni in Sept and retrain as a teacher (he works in factory) but I just don't think it's going to be possible.

We were putting aside £50 a month into DSS university fund (not a lot but it'll help) - that will have to stop.

So upset, this has ruined both our present and DSS future. Don't know what to do.

DOH even talking about giving up work as not worth all the hours to have £20 a week to live on and also about moving into shared lodgings. This will massively impact our quality of life as a family. We already live in 1 bedroom.

So sad and distressed. Hope someone can identify.

Sigh Oh dear... slept on it and feel a little better.

I know he's telling the truth about wages as I see his wage slips.

Ex has been threatening to put CSA on to him for years because she knows it would cripple him financially. It's a revenge thing.

I know people are saying that if we already buy all the stuff for him then £218 would be cheaper but the fact is that this new arrangement removes any aspect of choice from our finances.

You know what it's like... spot a winter coat in a size too big in April sales for £10 - get it for next year/ buy the xmas presents over a 4 month period to spread the cost.

Now we have no control over how we spread the finances over the year.

Also we have to keep on doing all school runs so still have car upkeep and petrol (it's a 6 mile walk plus 2 stops on train to do it without car - we did it for a while when car broke down and literally had to DRAG 6.y.o. there and back).

OMG ex lives OVER THE ROAD from the school but we are still expected to go to hers, pick up DSS and take him over the road to school even on her days of contact!!! DOH once said could she do it on one of the days the car had broken down and she said if you don't take him to school he's not going

She has also been known to call him in sick when she can't be bothered to get out of bed in the morning so we know this isn't an empty threat. I told SS but they said there was no way of proving she did that.

She has a massive hold over DOH. She comes from a totally different part of the country but moved down to be with him. Now she says she has no reason to be here and that if doesn't do everything she says she will move away with DSS, 300-odd miles away.

She kicks up every time we refuse to do the smallest thing for her and denys us contact. Stuff like she wants us to mow her lawn or drive round and give her a lift to Tesco which is a 10 min walk from her home.

We've been known to not see DSS for a week for denying something like that.

Unfortunately we simply don't have the money to go to court and we don't qualify for legal aid (at least we didn't before these deductions).

Oh and for those that have said if she is on benefits it is automatic, not anymore.
I was on IS for a couple of months last year and they do not automatically insist on the csa anymore.
THey now give you a little leaflet with advice on how to sort out maintenance either through the csa, amongst yourself or getting help to write up a maintenance agreement thing.

Thanks for clearing that up Ineedacleaner - I thought that might be the case. I suggested negotiating a more reasonable sum with ex (e.g. £100) but he said there is no reasoning with her. He's probably right.

I wouldn't bother trying to negotiate with her, it sounds like she wouldn't be interested.

I would get onto the CSA, ask for a copy of their assessment and how they came to that amount. It doesn't sound right to me that you have him 50% of the time yet your payments don't reflect this. If it isn't right you can ask for a reassessment.

She may have told them he hasn't paid anything so this amount may include arrears which he shouldn't be paying. This happened to dh. He'd been paying by standing order fortunately so was able to prove it and they altered his payments accordingly.

I think this is sortable, but you need to communicate with the CSA and let them know you didn't receive the letters. But to be honest, it does sound odd to me. Dh answered every letter within the deadline, returned forms on time, set up standing orders etc and it still took months for them to complete the assessment and tell him how much he had to pay.

Don't bother negotiating with her, instead put your energy into doing the following:

1. check the amount is right with the csa and that it doesn't include back pay

1. start reigning in what you all do for her - she only has you over a barrell if you permit it. No lawn mowing , tesco trips, no taking him to school. Instead contact the school regularly (weekly) and find out attendance.

1. Establish proper legal contact

1. Have him more often if you want the child benefit or the amount reduced

£218 is not a lot for a child for a month so get over that he has been forced to pay it, come to terms with it and budget with your new knowledge. It could have happened at any time and it is a reasonable amount and is probably what you have been paying already if you add up all the petrol.

Good luck

That's not very fair on the child though is it? That the problem in scenarios like this, when one party is always going to act in the best interests of the child, rather than get into a mexican stand-off with the other parent.

Whenever we had situations like this our bottom line was what is best for dsd, and we just had to accept that sometimes that meant things weren't necessarily going to be fair or reasonable to us.

And I think with regard to the money, you have to just accept that you won't have control over when or how that money is spent. I think you just need to hand it over (provided the assessment is right) and let it go, otherwise you're not going to do yourself any good by holding onto the anger about whether you have control or not.

Yes, but to be a bit hard-faced about it - if she doesn't take him to school its all extra ammo for him to be in your family where his needs will be catered for.

Your DP is doing the work of two parents so wouldn't it be better is ds was with you anyway?

And I think it isn't fair to the child to have such a useless mother that she can't get him to school in the morning (barring medical problems).

The interests of the child are not being looked after if your DP facilitates her uselessness.

I know, I do understand what you're saying. I think it's a really difficult call, but I would have thought he'd have to miss a hell of a lot of school for other agencies to get involved and if you're allowing that to happen aren't you as bad as the other parent? Both of you have responsibility for the child's education.

Guarangal, I am afraid that if a DOE has been made then it has gotten pretty far down the CSA route for that to happen. they would have sent letters, allowed some time, sent more letters and allowed more time. They would have tried to call him if they were given a mobile number for him. By their own procedures they have to go through all of this before they issue a DoE of court action.

The reason I know this is because my eXH refused to comply. It took them a total of 5 years to get to the DoE situation. They ended up taking £500 a month off of his wage of £1300 a month. BUT if he had paid when they asked in the earlier years then it would not have got the point where he had a year to pay off the arrears by DoE, hence the large monthly sum.

I think you need to do some straight talking with your OH. Something, somewhere does not make sense in relation to this.

As for the benefits issue, when someone signs on for certain benefits and there is an absent parent, then maintenance is automatically applied for by the CSA to recover the benefits cost.

If it were me, I am afraid, I would stop all purchasing of items and tell the ex that now you are paying maintenance through an official channel that she will have to provide everything for the child when she comes to you.

I am sorry you are in this predicament, it is horrible when you are forced to deal with an agency that is quite draconian. My view is that non-paying parents and vindictive parents with care create more work for the CSA than anyone else!

Stay strong and ensure that your OH is being totally frank and honest with you regarding this. Go with your gut instinct not necessarily what you hear. This is a really important issue to be clear and honest on if your future marriage is to survive.

Ineedacleaner - the automatic deduction was in force when I was trying to obtain maintenance so it may have been taken out in the 5 years since I started the process.

Bloody hell, are you dating my ex? he insists in taking DS to school, which means crossing the street, wouldn't agree to allow me to do all the school runs and, if he can't do it then he arranges for someone to come to pick up DS to take him , instead of letting me doing it.

He insists he doesn't want to loose the "day to day" conversations with DS but I can't see how a 30 second walk could achieve that, I have offered for him to visit/take him to a park instead for an hour after dinner but he wouldn't as he like to keep his evenings free for his active social life. I also feel that a lot of the communication with the teacher is hindered because I don't get to talk to him in the morning and ex mostly forget to pass messages to me.

I'm so mortified at people knocking down at my door in the morning to take DS to school when I can clearly do it. I'm upset at DS being let down so often because his father needs to change the arrangements so often, and I'm also sick of starting the day with the wrong foot because I never know if he is late or not coming or if someone else will knock at the door to take DS to school.

Have I killed this thread?

Lol, not but your situation is very different. The child's mother doesn't want to take him to school and if guaranagal and her dp can't as they have no car then the the boy doesn't get to school.

That's what Exh tells the people he asks to do the school run. That I would remove contact if he doesn't.

Last week exh was away on a trip. He was supposed to pick up DS at the end of the school day on Friday, but told me he was not sure he was going to be back on time. I was waiting all the morning for him to text me saying whether I should pick up DS or not but he didn't, so... as I had not heard of him I went to pick up DS just to find his girlfriend (who had been away with him) picking up DS.

She told me exh had been driving at 120 mph to get in time to pick up DS in a "how do you dare" way. I just wonder why he didn't text me especially when he had told me to keep on call just in case he didn't. I'm sure his girlfriend thinks I'm a control freak, I know for certain he is a liar who likes to play the victim role.

Your DOH ex sounds as mad as hatter. If you can't afford to do xyz anymore than so be it. I wonder if she'd really carry through her threats if you withdrew all your support.

She is running rings around you because you let her. You can self represent in court etc have you both joined families need fathers they are very very good at helping people sort out situations like this themselves via the courts.

Ineed, the time it would have taken to get to this stage is likely to have been years not months (as has been said the CSA are not allowed to work that fast and couldn't even if they were) the chances are that, as the ex has been on benefits for 4yrs the process was started back then and has only now come to this stage. 4yrs ago it certainly would have been a requirement and 4 years sounds like a much more likely time frame than 4 months.

WRT how it is now, it is still a requirement that you have an arrangement in place, through the CSA is what they do if you refuse to arrange something yourself (and declare it). They still can stop your benefits if you refuse. THe situation and requirements have not changed, the approach and presentation of it may have though.

Fruitysunshine yes it wll be within the past 5 years that the automatic deduction was taken out (used to work for BA when they still did this)
I know that back then there was an automatic deduction I was just saying to those that have said it still happens that it doesn't anymore.
I do confess to having no idea how the CSA works or how long they take.

Well, we've spoken to CSA and apparently £218 included some arrears. £130 is going to be the monthly sum. I am happy with this personally, we are just going to have to be strict about not buying DSS all the things we used to, and let EX do that.
DOH thinks it is too much but I think he hasn't thought through how much we actually spend on kitting out DSS.

We are going for a residence order and are looking for the right solicitor. We want an order giving us 50% of residence. Given the status quo, I think we might get it (fingers crossed).

EX is playing nasty. Since the CSA thing came up she has sent 2 texts: " we are moving away from you asap" and "you will not be having him next week and he is busy on your next weekend. Brace yourself for the onslaught".

You can tell what a nice piece of work she is.

We have kept a contact diary for over a year now though, detailing exactly when we have him and our lawyer has taken it as evidence. Hopefully that will stand us in good stead for getting the joint residence order.

It's all a crappy situation but I have taken on some extra work (dressmaking) to try to address our shortfall in cash and we are trying to be strong despite not seeing DSS since the begininning of the week. We just hope and support one another...

Get a diary of days written down asap, go as far back as you can (whilst being certain you have the days factually correct, you will be royally screwed if she can prove you have days down that you have not had ds). If she gets wind of this then she may try to make sure the days balance back in her favour by stopping contact as much as possible.

Dh ended up with some arrears. I can't remember how now, it was to do with an assessment taking ages I think, not to do with him not paying.

We simply couldn't afford it. They let him pay the monthly amount and the bare minimum of the arrears. They were happy as long as it was paid.

Then we took a detailed look and double checked their assessment. There were errors on it and things they'd got wrong, so the assessment was redone. They ended up owing us money!

Of course it didn't work both ways, we couldn't ask for the money to be paid back in one go, they had to refund it by taking it off dh's payments for the next 5 years . But the difference between the first and second assessments was considerable, so it's definitely worth checking what they've done, and also worth asking to repay the minimum on the arrears.

guaranagal, I'd strongly suggest you point your DP in the direction of Families Need Fathers. They will be able to give him some very good advice about how to apply to courut for a shared residency order, which is what it sounds like you're after. A shared residency order doesn't necessarily mean a strict 50:50 split of time, but it does mean that both parents are regarded as equal and it stops one from unilaterally deciding to stop contact out of spite.

Families Need Fathers aren't the same bunch of cretins you find in Fathers 4 Justice, incidentally. FNF can also help put you in touch with "MacKenzie Friends", who are people who can help you put together an application to court and also support you in representing yourselves, all without needing a solicitor.