Kinship

[Mamacxxx]

Hi,
im hoping to get good advice and not just get bullied on here like I did months ago so be nice please thanks..

looking for advice about kinship.
it’s a long draining story , but the basis is, me and my partner are due a baby in 10 weeks and his daughter is 9 and currently is living with her grandparents under kinship court decided agreement.

she comes to stay on the weekends (Friday-Sunday) during school year
and when she’s in school holidays she’s here whenever she wants too, this can be weeks at a time.

we want to get her back off of kinship but we’re both terrified, my partners dad and wife are pretty well off financially and we can’t compare to that. We’re worried that it’ll just cause hurt to my SD, but all she says is I want to live with you now every time she’s here. (She’s 9)

the other issue we have is , the legal guardians over SD are my partners dad and wife but they have forced SD to call them mum and dad (this happens infront of her bio dad - my partner)

we both feel like the grandparents are being selfish at this point, keeping SD from living with us full time.
so we’ve got to the point now, do we go straight to lawyers with every bit of evidence we have to prove that SD is happier with us, even though it’s terrifying and we feel like we have no leg to stand on?

in the past my partner has explained to me about how he and his ex lost SD and really if I’m being honest it was clearly a set up.
SD was taken away that day and handed to Gparents and within a year she was under kinship whilst she was still seeing her bio parents.

so my question is, has anyone went through kinship order and had it reversed so that bio parent has full parental control over child again?

feeling a bit overwhelmed with it all, especially when gparents make it out like we don’t need to go to the lawyers , but we’ve never heard a whisper from social work or lawyers regarding the kinships- they can be pretty narcissistic and problematic, everything’s an argument when we have anything to say to them etc.

sos
thanks

I’m sure that’s what it’s called

OK. So special guardianship orders are granted to give the child permanency in a legal, emotional and physical sense often for the duration of their childhood.

However SGOs can be revoked if there has been significant change and Parent can evidence this.

You don't need to go via Social Services you can apply to court for a discharge of the SGO BUT Social services or CAFCASS will be ordered to assess and report on their recommendations for discharge if the Order, or not.

This 100%.
Open your eyes OP. There is no way that the child would be permanently placed with grandparents unless they has serious concerns about the dad.

Appreciate you weren't there at the time so can only go on certain bits of info @Mamacxxx

The bit in particular I can’t get my head around is the speed at which SW removed the girl. I haven’t had any experience with SW but my understanding is that they’d receive a report and if the house was a riot, they’d wonder why.

Is mums mental health bad? Has something happened to make her unable to cope? Surely they’d look for reasons for such a sudden change in a household.

They’d speak to the kids school, bring in other agencies like the GP, a support worker etc. Even someone to deep clean the property and get it back to a normal state.

Surely it would be seen as a situation that could be overcome and brought back to normal, if the family had been unremarkable beforehand.

You have read all the paperwork your partner has shown you. That's not necessarily all of it.

And.....

Relatives can only apply for SGO if child has been living there 12 months minimum.

However if SS were going for care proceedings then SGO could happen quicker as an alternative to child going into care. IF this were the scenario then the situation was far more serious than OP is giving.

Either way things with this child were far more serious than father is saying. A realistic conversation is needed.

You and your DP should seek legal advice (from a family solicitor who specialises in public law) regarding getting the SGP revoked.

However, as others have pointed out, the reasons and timescale for your SC being removed from your DP / his ex absolutely do not make sound feasible. I strongly suspect there is a lot more to the story when what you appear to have been told. If you have not already done so, then I would suggest doing a Claire’s law and Sarah’s law application regarding your partner.

SGOs are one step below adoption and to get one there has to be significant concerns that the child needs permanency elsewhere than their parents.
Father would have been conducted...what does the SGO assessment say his views were??

If you want to rescind the order you can apply to court to do it.
However the court need to be confident it’s in the child’s best interests and to be honest I don’t know that they’d see a reason to unsettle her. She’s already experienced neglect and been moved once; what’s the rationale for moving her again and creating another change in her life? This isn’t about parents rights but a child’s right to permanency and stability

OP, if I was about to have a baby with a man whose other child had been permanently removed from his care, I would be working very hard to find out why. Because it absolutely did not happen the way he is telling you.

Children are not permanently removed from their parents because the house got a bit messy once.

Children are not permanently removed from their parents so quickly, and with so little notice, that it could all happen while he was away for a couple of weeks and be done and dusted before he got back.

Plus, if it had been due to something the mother had done while he was away, that would not have stopped him from looking after them. The children have been given to the grandparents because NEITHER parent was deemed safe.

Please investigate further. You are about to have a child with this man.

I remember the last thread, I can’t believe after all this time he hasn’t got a solicitor.

have you done a disclosure with the police to check there isn’t anything significant?

That type of order would only be approved in court if there was no other viable option for a child before going into care. Meaning the other bio parent would have had to have been considered ie your DP. The judge would have had to considered why it wasn't in the childs best interests to be placed with them over the type of order they gave down which would have had SS input.

You need a family solicitor who specialises in this type of care proceedings and be aware he will have to be assessed which means your home and the care of your new child.

I would also speak to solicitor yourselves independently of him to understand what impact this may have on you and your child.

Not necessarily.

SGOs can be given in private proceedings too if child has resided for over 12 months with other relative. It doesn't have to always be part of removal from parent.

However as SS were involved then yes does seem more likely the LA initiated care proceedings and kinship care via SGO was outcome.

You need to check that social services have no concerns about your baby living with your partner.

If it was private proceedings that doesnt align to his story as to how it happened and why they became involved.

That doesn't seem to be case, since it all came about through a SS intervention and the fact he has willing allowed it to stay unchallenged or unchanged for so long with is very strange.

No, I agree. I was just saying not all SGOs are due to SS involvement. However this story is as fishy as a sushi bar.

It’s disturbing to think that any of the adults (aside from the grandparents) in this situation are parents.

SW will presumably be involved with your baby op when you give birth, given your partner will be very much under their scrutiny if they have removed a child from his care, which is the last option only available in the most serious of cases.

They will
and thankfully SW will be involved with the OP’s baby given she cherry picked a partner who had his child removed by SWs.

Can you imagine even dating anyone further once you’d heard that SW had removed their child from their care?!

SW do not remove a child from a parent because they are “lazy”

Oh @Mamacxxx, why are you bringing another baby into this situation? Quite clearly you’ve been fed a pack of lie, as everyone else has said, kids don’t just get taken about from their parents for untidy houses for a few weeks. Something significant has happened and I wouldn’t want anymore kids anywhere near this.

No, but I've seen it many times that a child is removed from a mother who is unable to parent, only for the dad (who could be capable) to simply refuse to take the child on. It's not uncommon for men to say things like they don't have a room, they work long hours, it's not possible for them. I'm imagining this father could fit into this category (which still makes him a piece of shit father by the way, I was just explaining why there's no certainty social services will get involved in this).

You have seen this “many times”

are you a SW or are these families you personally know?

So what we’re saying is either SS took his child away from him, or he gave her up because he couldn’t be bothered.

Point stands that OP is not being told the truth, and before fighting to have the child returned, AND bringing a new baby into the world, she needs to find out what actually happened.

I'm a family support worker (well, used to be).

* a child is removed from a mother who is unable to parent, only for the dad (who could be capable) to simply refuse to take the child on. I*

I think then that a safe bet the dad in question also won’t be able to parent.