Ex SC. What would you do?

[sassbott]

Hi

Some history for those of you who aren’t familiar. I was in an on/ off relationship with someone for nearly 5 years. Never cohabited, no joint DC, no ties at all. In the final 2 years I had very minimal contact with his DC - so not like I was a significant part of their lives. I am aware however that I am a trusted adult (or was). They were very fond of me and my Dc.

The relationship itself was incredibly unhealthy and i tried to end it many times, ultimately I would listen to his promises of therapy/ change. Mr nice guy would be back for a period before the cycle began again. I am now getting professional help to ensure that this time, I stay away from him. Zero chance of reconciliation. It’s really hard. He is blocked (WhatsApp/ FT) and the only comms left open are via email (which I think should also be shit down).

One of the things that came up in a recent counselling session was the fact that he has retained contact via our respective children.
My DC are older (teens) and have their own phones, WhatsApp etc. I have not said to them what they can / cannot do - he is not blocked on their phones. They told me that he texted them earlier in the week and wished them a happy Xmas. They sent a simple one liner back. Fine. My DC are old enough to figure out how much/ little interaction they need. I would prefer to not interfere with them.

When it came to his much younger DC however, my counsellor advised that I stop all contact with his DC. He said it was highly likely that my ex was using his children as a means to keeping communications with me open. And it was highly unlikely (given how little I saw these children) that there were messaging me unprompted / without my exes encouragement. Which when I think about, I tend to agree with.

In the last facetime I did with them, they asked when they were seeing me etc. After that I emailed my ex asking if he had told them we had broken up. He replied no and that he would do so after Xmas and in the meantime ask them not to message me. I told him it wasn’t fair on them (or me actually) and I no longer wished to be put in a situation where I am being asked when I am seeing them. He should be having that conversation with them. It’s not difficult to stop the contact, he could simply remove my details from their devices. They are younger and don’t have their own phones etc.

Yesterday his kids messaged my kids. Fine.
Then I have woken to an email from him this morning. Saying that his children have been trying to contact me and asking me to let him know I’m ok so they don’t worry. So he’s attempting again to keep some form of contact, through his children.

He clearly hasn’t asked them not to message me. He clearly hasn’t ‘cut ties’ as he said he would as he has messaged my DC (and they know we have broken up and are completely fine with it).

My question is what do I do?
I think my counsellor is right and I think he is using his kids as a conduit to keep comms open.
Which isn’t fair.

But then a part of me thinks ‘you’re being so mean, this isn’t how you act.’ It doesn’t feel nice. But I think that’s why He’s doing this. He knows I am soft and that I would never want his children to be upset. And be the direct cause of that upset.

WWYD.

Ignore the email and continue to lock down comms?
Fold and reply and do one last FT with his kids given he has said he will tell them in the new year?

OP talk to your children as well plus make sure he is blocked on your work email. Warn any family/friends he may have the details off.

Also if he came to your place regularly and you get on with your neighbours, make them aware that you are no longer together so he should never be around. You want them to alert you/call the police if he shows his face.

His refusal to tell his children you have spilt up and are not in contact anymore is unhinged behaviour, so be prepared for him to do anything.

Oh @sassbott I can see why you're so torn on this. But this isn't you, he's being an utterly shit dad to not communicate with his dc.

I agree you can't have independent relationships with primary aged dc. That's not normal and fair on you or them. I think I'd get my dc to block him and then block him by email. There isn't anything more to say to him and that last tie needs to be cut for your own head space.

Ah sassbot, the last dying attempts of a hideous man using his kids to try and wheedle back in because if you don't you look like the bad guy. For him it's such a win win approach. It's reminding me of that meme where the female has blocked the bloke on everything so he buys something on her ebay just to send a message to her in the eBay seller box.

I don't say this lightly but given the age of the children involved. I would force your ex to tell the kids by simply blocking them on the younger ones phones. It will bring it to a head. ...You could if so inclined send them a message just saying your ok your just needing to step away from the digital world for a while and your doing the same for the kids to soften the blow as were but I'm not sure your ex won't think ahhh a chink in her armour and drag this out longer.

Metaphorically speaking cat is dying in pain, and sometimes the only option is to do the brutal act to save a hideously long and painful drawn out death. It's a kindness. You would hope that a person wouldn't do this to their own kids but remember you having to do this is a consequence of his actions and you aren't responsible. Even if your brain is telling you something quite different.

He's a jerk and I suspect this won't be a first or last in acts of unkindness towards you or ultimately his children.

@RedWingBoots good lord I hope it won’t come to that. But I will talk to my DC. My friends already know.

@SnowWhitesSM yup, it’s a lovely one isn’t it!

@candlelightsatdawn exactly! For him it’s a win win. If I fold he gets contact. If I retain my boundary, I’ve treated his children badly.

But as @Tattler2 has correctly pointed out, I should have no expectation of him being honest. And if I want / need to be honest with his children then that onus is on me to do. Otherwise I just need to put this out of my mind, cut the final ties and be done with it. Right now, he’s getting headspace he shouldn’t be and that’s on me.

I’ll cut myself some slack. It isn’t a great situation and it’s the time of year when this stuff is inevitably harder to deal with.

Thank you all for your support.

I should have no expectation of him being honest. And if I want / need to be honest with his children then that onus is on me to do.

I may have misunderstood something on the above two points, but if you are moving on from him, and ready to cut all ties alongside him, none of it should really bother you (obviously it does, because you are a person with feelings, but you have to steel yourself to pretend it doesn't matter).

If in many years his DC come looking for you as adults, you would be able to provide your version of events at that time. By then, the DC should be well aware of who their dad is, and may even have seen numerous women come and go since your relationship ended, so anything you reveal is unlikely to surprise them.

The thing I'd be concerned about regarding the focus on ensuring he is honest/you being honest with his DC, is that this scenario cannot occur without his involvement, given their ages. You cannot control what he tells his DC if you are not there, so you have to try and put out of your mind the consequences of that, if you don't to risk being drawn back in. Same goes for if you do decide to be there/instigate matters yourself; you need to put the idea of it out of your mind for your own well-being.

@Starseeking No you got it right. For me, I just had to reconcile a few things mentally (which this thread helped with massively). I don’t like to be unkind and this is what this felt like (it doesn’t anymore).

It’s not my responsibility. I am not being unkind. The onus is on him to do what he thinks is best for his kids and it has absolutely nothing to do with me. I don’t plan on instigating anything but will stay zero comms.

It’s a process. One step at a time.

Sassbot - didn't want to comment on other thread as to not get things muddled but wanted to check in make sure your ok ? Ask if there's been a update ect.

Hi. So thank you to everyone who took the time to comment and advise. It really helped. I didn’t react or respond in anyway. My kids heard nothing further from his kids. So I assumed all blown over and dealt with.

Another email landed late last night (so again after a few wines probably). This was (as predicted) an escalation. Essentially I’m the bad guy for ignoring innocent children at Christmas. My behaviour gives cause for concern.

I won’t respond or react. I’m planning on resolutely ignoring over the holiday break and will revisit what I need to do about this in early Jan. I’m not giving this further mindshare over precious holiday downtime.

I did the right thing and will continue to not react in any way.

If you actually manage to take the emotion out of it, and observe the ‘behaviour’ separate to the fact that it’s being designed to do something, it’s all very predictable. Its desperation for engagement, via any means or any sort of provocation. I know this may sound bizarre but it actually helps to deal with it. Because I know this isn’t anything remotely personal to me, or even about me. This is all him.

That’s quite a liberating and freeing place to reach actually. Sad that this is how it has to end though. But I’m not dealing with someone healthy and boundaried. So needs must.

The only part I cannot fathom is I know full well there was someone lined up and ready. He’s ostensibly moved on. So why is he still bothering me? It’s weird.

The only part I cannot fathom is I know full well there was someone lined up and ready.

Maybe there was... Maybe she's rumbled him. Or she's just not such a tasty prospect! Or he thinks he can score twice.

Uuuurgh.

It’s weird though right? It’s something I’ll unpick with my counsellor in the new year.

He’s a good looking guy. Has loads of free time. Lives in a great part of London. He will have no issues meeting plenty of women. Why won’t he let me go?

Answers on a postcode please 😂😂

I know full well there was someone lined up and ready

1. He may not have secured that person
2. She is not such a good source of attention
3. He needs the conflict
4. His email may be used to smear you and present himself as a victim - "see how toxic she was, she hurts my children " My behaviour gives cause for concern very obvious smear there!!!

As you quite rightly say, his responsibility to tell his children and deal with their emotions, there is no need for one final contact. If he hasn't told them then he isn't prepared to discard you fully so he considers you still part of his supply matrix.

Ok. How do I get off the supply matrix? Because I would really like that part expedited?

The really weird part (I just reread it) is it’s signed off ‘love’ followed by a nickname that I would use.

Honestly it is just bizarre. So fascinating. Cannot wait to discuss with my counsellor.

Why won't he let me go?

I think it's about control. These type of men want everything in their life to be just how they want it, and get angry when someone (you) thwarts those plans. He wants to be the one to make any decision to walk away, not you, hence why he continues the pursuit, despite being told over and over that the relationship is finished.

I mean sassbot I really am no expert, but glimpses of things I have encountered seems to be that you may have given your ex a narcissistic wound (I know right you can actually get to them) that may not be right terminology.

Basically you have seen and rejected beyond the mask and it's damaged his ego because he has both a high and crushing low sense of self worth within his body. You have confirmed something he's always suspected but cannot ever accept. That's why the focus will always been on your behaviour.

True blue narks, know on a very primal level they are different but their mental condition doesn't allow them to accept it's a issue with them. Even if they wanted to, they cannot ever recover (this is widely confirmed in any of therapist community). They can work really hard to soften their edges but the fact remains they always revert back. I believe it's down to brain chemistry and patterns. For them change is hard and akin to growing a extra arm they don't consider necessary to keep themselves happy. That said it's debatable if they feel happiness in the same way as others because of their brains.

Also fun reading of you like this type of thing which I do : confession of a sociopath. Really interesting if not a little scarily logical in some places, once you look past the binds of what society says at any rate which sociopaths do more easily.

Sounds like you have got a solid game plan down. I admire your strength tbh, bugger knows I was taken in by a clients former ex (who beknowns to me who he was) did some of the most horrific things I have ever read in a case file. I had to sit down and re-examine my radar checking for weak spots and had to give self and ego a good shake.That said I probably wouldn't be on this board if I didn't have things to learn and you certainly have taught me a few things or too.

I'm just sorry for one you had to deal with this prick ! I would be a emotional mess but then again I am a emotional mess so no point denying it. 💐

I’ve downloaded it onto kindle! Thanks for the recommendation. And thank you for the insight on narcissistic wounding. It’s a thing and it could well be what I have, unwittingly, done. From the stuff I have read, it’s not good.

Oh well. Hopefully he will find his new supply and move on.

@sassbott - ignore & keep ignoring & tbh I'd tell your dc to block him & his dc also.
This may sound very cruel but this is such narcissistic behaviour & you would actually be doing his dc a favour, as in blocking them he can no longer use them to get to you.
Your ex sounds extremely like my exh & with men like this it is always about control. You stripped him of his control by ending things & he cannot cope with being the 'dumped' one. Men like this want to control the relationship & they also want to control the ending of the relationship & anything outside their scope of control niggles away at them.
My exh was cheating (for various reasons) but when caught would not actually leave. I had to pack his bags and place them outside the front door. He wanted to leave but didn't want to be kicked out! His narrative was that he would leave (with no evidence of cheating) because I was too difficult to live with he was doing it 'for the sake of our dc' as we were fighting all the time. What his narrative didn't include is that we were fighting as he was drinking pubs dry & staying out all night. When that narrative got taken from him he used pathos & the dc to try to violate my boundaries over & over again; trying to control me & the dc even though he was with someone else.
Obviously I couldn't go no contact with him as he is the father of my dc & I have, through years of therapy, learned how to keep him at bay while still coparenting & we have a functioning relationship now. However, it has 'damaged' me & if I'd had no dc with him I would have cut him out of my life completely. Narcissists are very damaging people & as you have no dc with this man I would seize the opportunity for you and your dc to not have to deal with him again.
From everything you've said I do feel sorry for his dc but as you & others have said - they are not your responsibility.

Thank you @Magda72 for the advice. Much appreciated and taken on board. My DC are off to their dads for New Years and I am keeping myself busy. He / his kids haven’t messaged my DC and I’ll pick this up in the new year and discuss with them. I tend to agree that blocking them all has to be the way forward.

Hope you had a lovely Xmas x

Popping back on here (waves) to say well done, Sassbott on doing the right thing here.

Hello Magda72

These men can be difficult to get out of our hair. Tried to bin mine in the summer and failed. You’re doing fine.

I think even when we slam the door on them, often men like to keep the door a bit open. Just a weeny bit. Just in case.

I think even when we slam the door on them, often men like to keep the door a bit open. Just a weeny bit. Just in case.

This is my ex. He’s got his foot firmly in the door, keeping an eye on me through our children. He loves the fact that they keep us linked, and that me doing the absolutely of care means that it’s not easy to do much more than be a mum and stay at home/ work part time. Exactly where he wants me to be.

Well I’ll tell you something, my youngest is getting past the toddler years now. And he’s going to lose that grip on me more and more as she gets older.

Well if he tries to keep any foot in my door, I’ll break it (metaphorically speaking).

If he doesn’t stop and this continues to escalate. He will get one warning letter for free from my family lawyers. Telling him firmly to stop contacting me. There’s a very fine line between ‘trying’ and harassment. And I am really clear on that. I do not want it to come to that as that feels extreme and unnecessary.

But if he continues to use contact to effectively denigrate me/ attack me then that’s what I will do.
I’ve moved into cold anger for a period.

His second email did get under my skin and upset me. He knew it would. It’s just nasty.

Magda just wanted to say again that your ex sounds like a infestation of bed bugs, you think you have got all the blighters but keep coming back sneaking in on clothing. The gas lighting re the cheating is just really cruel when you think about the dynamics. Worst fear the ex not leaving the house !

@funinthesun19 your freedom is coming !! I bet this will enrage him ! Bloody make sure you really slam his hand in the door when you can finally shut it.

I think personally it's because it's a ego thing, you can't escape so your still "theirs" in part.

@sassbott

Well if he tries to keep any foot in my door, I’ll break it (metaphorically speaking).

If he doesn’t stop and this continues to escalate. He will get one warning letter for free from my family lawyers. Telling him firmly to stop contacting me. There’s a very fine line between ‘trying’ and harassment. And I am really clear on that. I do not want it to come to that as that feels extreme and unnecessary.

But if he continues to use contact to effectively denigrate me/ attack me then that’s what I will do.
I’ve moved into cold anger for a period.

His second email did get under my skin and upset me. He knew it would. It’s just nasty.

Just seen this. Thing is actually a letter from a lawyer isn't extreme or rude. He's being extreme by escalating the situation getting nastier.

Like you have to sit there and take his nasty words just because he's hurting. Break his bones and don't feel a iota of guilt that's what he wants. Anger is such a cleansing emotion in a way !

Thanks @candlelightsatdawn no it isn’t extreme. But to me (a healthy human being) it is the first time in my life I have had to even contemplate sending a legal letter re harassment. Even that is being kind as I could now move straight to informing the police, technically he has now moved into harassment territory and he would be getting a visit.

Like I said, this will wait now until the new year.

@sassbott I think your updates re your exp actually explain a lot of the issues you had with him re his parenting of his dc & the dynamic with his exw. Again (& I'm aware I'm projecting here) the never wanting to be seen as anything other than Mr. Nice Guy & Mr. Perfect Parent creates a dynamic of everything being everyone else's fault & a total inability to parent robustly (as you'd say yourself) while actually not really seeing your dc as anything other than an extension of yourself & your 'pain' - a typical trait of narcissism. In other words - him having 'healthy', robust dc doesn't actually serve him.
I know how tough all this is & I hope you have a lovely New Year no matter what you're doing.