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Maintenance Fraud - Not sure whether to take her to court or not

26 replies

ToCourtOrNotToCourt · 06/09/2018 09:40

Long back story but the salient facts are....

DH and ex -W split when kids were 4 and 2 and had share custody 50/50. His ex refused to allow him to see them - breaching court orders all the time. Claimed the kids didn't want to see him when he had it on good authority from other family members they did. When he tried to force it, made allegations against him. Totally false. All this is true as I've seen all the case notes, documentation, judgements and correspondence with his solicitor - before the "he's only saying that" brigade trot out the usual lines.

Got to the point where his own solicitor advised him to walk away for his own safety and sanity. He paid his maintenance (£1500+ every month) regularly, on time and never missed a payment. She frequently caused trouble under the old system as she thought she should get more because I'm the higher earner and she couldn't reconcile our lifestyle with her "paltry" maintenance. Ironically, if he was able to see his kids, we'd have given them all they wanted and more with no argument.

DH was no saint when married to her and I understand why she was bitter.

Roll on 14 years.

Daughter turned 18, tried to make contact - was threatened by his mother that she was homeless if she continued. Dropped contact. Later events highlighted why.

A year later, we got wind that Daughter was working and had left school. After asking CMS to investigate in June this year, we found out that in Feb, she said she'd left college in the spring but was enrolling on another course. After a long investigation, it turned out she'd actually left college in July last year so had a years over payment of maintenance for her (not including the child benefit that the government are going to have to get back from ex-w). During this investigation, she just refused to answer any correspondence from the CMS. This was adjusted in his maintenance payments going forward for his other daughter. We wanted to cease payments until the overpayment was used up but the CMS was not allowing that since "the child can't be expected to live without no money" - which completely ignores the mother had received it all up front. Note, we are reasonably sure the children didn't see much of the maintenance beyond what they needed as her lifestyle was not commensurate with how they lived. i.e. the relatively high maintenance payments basically paid for her weekends at the races, city breaks etc

When we asked for proof that child benefit was still being received for youngest daughter. Turned out she'd left college back in May! Again, no correspondence or anything.

End result is, she owes us in the region of £9500 in overpayments she should never have got.

The only option is to take the mother to court to get the money back - which I think is a major flaw in the system. If DH didn't pay, they would garnish his wages. But they have no power to make her repay the money she owes.

So the options are:

  1. Take her to court for the money. This would give some satisfaction of getting the money back, making her face DH and making her squirm. This is what DH favours.
  1. Be the bigger man and walk away. Its money we thought we had to pay anyway and we don't "need" it. My view is that if he has any hope of a relationship in the future with his daughters, he should just walk away and not give his ex any more ammunition to use against him other than the bile she has probably filled them with already.

I understand why he wants to do (1) and that is what I'd probably want to do - I just don't want him making things worse as I know the one thing he wants more than anything is a relationship with his kids.

OP posts:
NorthernSpirit · 06/09/2018 09:45

Claim the money back.

You can issue a money claim on line (google it). The mother has 3 weeks to respond. If she doesn’t she’s issued a CCJ and you can take it to court and a judge will decide.

fuzzywuzzy · 06/09/2018 09:54

Get legal advice see how much it would cost to take it to court. Especially if she is non compliant of any court orders. Also if she shows she is unable to repay you what will you? Ask for a small repayment sum each month till it’s paid off or ask for her assets to be sold (does she own her own home?)

ToCourtOrNotToCourt · 06/09/2018 10:08

She does own her own home - DH signed it over to her in the divorce settlement.

OP posts:
ToCourtOrNotToCourt · 06/09/2018 10:08

Pressed enter too soon.

The house was mortgage free so she had a free house plus the maintenance.

OP posts:
NorthernSpirit · 06/09/2018 10:36

You can take her to the small claims court yourself at very little cost (she’ll be responsible for all fees).

I would start by formally weirding to her and asking her to suggest a payment plan.

If you don’t get anywhere open a MCOL -

www.gov.uk/make-money-claim

I did one recently (for a £2k debt) - cost £70 (which the debtor pays). They didn’t respond so it does to court (£115) which they will also have to pay. They get a CCJ and judge ordered a payment plan.

NorthernSpirit · 06/09/2018 10:36

I meant writing.....

HappyStep1 · 06/09/2018 11:16

If there is an opportunity to claim the money back then do so but if you really want to build a relationship with his daughters, let it go.
Try and make contact and don't talk about the EXW behaviours, make it all about wanting to build the Father Daughter relationship. It may take a long time and your DH will need to be patient, they are young and you have no idea what they've been told about either of you.
Good Luck!

ohreallyohreallyoh · 06/09/2018 17:32

If the case is with the CMS, I am pretty sure you can’t take it to court. You can ask the CMS to recover the money but the whole point of the CSA/CMS was that they have jurisdiction, not the courts.

And if you want a relationship with the child, punishing her mother is not the way to go about it.

takeittakeit · 06/09/2018 22:39

It would be so nice if all those RPs of whatever sex, could go and sue the NRP for monies owed wouldn't it.

What ever anger you have and sense of injustice has to be weighted against how much he wants to have a relationship with his children

COI: My ex earns 160K+ and pays £250 pcm for 2 DCS. I bite my tongue and say nothing because they have a geat relationship with their Dad and that is more important than the monies.

flossietoot · 06/09/2018 22:45

Let it go.

Baumederose · 06/09/2018 22:48

So hes not seen his daughters in 14 years?

He treated their mother like shit?

Didn't bother to continue the court action to get access?

Take their mother to court. Sound course of action, absolutely.

NorthernLurker · 06/09/2018 23:06

I don't think there's much to salvage in his relationship with the kids. I would pursue the debt tbh. Why should she keep a huge amount of money obtained through lies?

flossietoot · 06/09/2018 23:14

Because the money is for the kids, who presumably are about 17. And no amount of money will make up for the fact he hasn’t been there.

NorthernLurker · 06/09/2018 23:17

If the kids actually see that money I'll eat my hat.

flossietoot · 06/09/2018 23:20

Don’t be ridiculous- the money isn’t only to buy them stuff! It is to contribute to the running of the family home, gas, electric, council tax, food, and assumably they aren’t going about naked!
So what if the mother goes to the races- just because she recieves maintenance money doesn’t mean she isn’t allowed to have a life too. So much stigma on single mothers- she has raised those kids for many years when he was no where to be seen.

NorthernLurker · 06/09/2018 23:28

Are you the ex wife Flossie? Grin
The father paid to support his kids, he had shared custody until the ex wife breached that, he has remained available to his children. It's not like she's been scrubbing floors to buy bread whilst he denied all knowledge now is it?

MsPavlichenko · 06/09/2018 23:29

A free house? The house she lived in and contributed to ( by caring for the DC if she didn't work outside the home). The house she continued to raise the DC in. And presumably pay the bills for.

The issue about the overpayment is one thing. The other suggestions are unpleasant. And what she does with her weekends is none of your, or your DH"s business. And given the lack of contact with his DC I am surprised how you know of it.

BlueBug45 · 06/09/2018 23:29

OP get proper written evidence, then do 2 and get him to work hard at forming a relationship with the daughters even if it takes years. I know some estranged children when they have children themselves relent but doing 1,while correct, will stop that.

NeverTwerkNaked · 06/09/2018 23:30

Honestly he’s not coming across well here at all. Do you never question his version of events from before you met?

It wouldn’t have been that great for a little 2 year old to be away from her mum half the time anyway.

He needs to let it go. And you both need to stop judging the ex for enjoying life. On that maintenance there would have been money left after providing all the children’s needs, and most parents are better parents if they get a break

ineedtostopbeingsolazy · 06/09/2018 23:42

How old are the children? I'm presuming about 17 and 19? She may not have been entitled to the money as they'd left education but at that age kids cost a huge amount of money so the money your dh paid would certainly have gone towards their needs.

So she went on weekends away but I assume the kids weren't starved and homeless while she away.

swingofthings · 07/09/2018 07:37

Not disbelieving that the ex made it very difficult for him to have access and parental alienation might have been at play BUT the fact that his DD made contact at 18 and disappeared again suggests that there is more into it.

If it was all the ex doing why make contact in the first place? If the alienbation was so extreme that the DD decided to back down as frightened to challenge the mother why make contact in the first place.

And isn't it ironic that you 're the one suggesting to forget it to help his relationship with his kids rather than him?

Putting all this aside she claimed money that she wasn't entitled to end of so I agree it could be claimed back and put into a trust for the children if that's what he wants to do. I agree that cms should do it it is there role even if it might mean doing so by instalments but then the court could agree to the same anyway if she cried she couldn't repay it all in one go.

ZigZagZebras · 07/09/2018 13:50

I doubt the children will feel great if he's willing to take their mum to court for money but found it too 'stressful' to take her to court to see them 🤔

newusername12345 · 07/09/2018 20:07

Funny how your dh couldn’t handle court to have access to his kids but is now considering taking his ex to court to get his money back? Assuming your dh is paying maintenance through cms, the overpayment will be recovered by them and maintenance payments will be reduced until is completely paid. If your dh really cared about his kids he wouldn’t even consider getting all the money in one payment! You sound pretty bitter, to be honest I’m fed up of posts like this always insinuating that the mums spend the maintenance and the kids go without!

Bananasinpyjamas11 · 07/09/2018 21:56

There’s an opportunity here to at last have a relationship with his daughter, but it is fragile. It’s a huge opportunity.

Please don’t waste it by making his daughter feel that by making contact, revealing she wasn’t in college, means that her mother gets taken to court.

There is a clear choice. His daughter or the money.

Willyoujustbequiet · 08/09/2018 02:57

Its very telling that your DH walked away from getting access to his kids but wants to go to court for money.

Says it all really.

Its none of your business what she did with it. It wasnt a free house either if they were married. It was rightly half hers.

Let it go.

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