AIBU regarding contact with EXW and EXMIL?

[movingonup2015]

I think I already know the answer to this and perhaps this is just a vent but its causing lots of friction between me and my DP so either way either I need to get a grip or he needs to sort it!

Ok so I have been with my DP for 2 years, we don't live together and he has a 9year old DS.

His DS thinks the world of me, loves me being there on the nights my DP has him and we generally rub along really well.

However, the EXW and her mother are still a big part of DP's life - now I know they always will be, I'm not disputing that I'm just wondering how much interfering is too much...

For example - my DP has a key to EXW house incase she isn't there and his son needs something from her house one evening - that has happened quite frequently so probably not as weird as it makes me feel. I don't like this at all, I think its weird that he lets himself into her house (not their marital home btw) and collects items but I guess that's something I need to get over as its probably not that unreasonable. The thing I don't like is that she will text him on the nights he has DS and say "can you just go to my house and let the dogs out/feed the cat/stroke the bloody chickens" or whatever pet shes bought that week because shes going to be home late.. - I find that odd personally.. Or if he is due to drop DS home and she is going to be late she won't let DP know she will wait until hes outside and has to ring her to find out where she is, at which point she tells him to just let himself in her house and wait for her to come home - again, don't like that but he lives too far away to just drive home and wait until she has returned.

DP had a minor accident the other day which prevented him from doing something to do with work and she said right come on I am going to do it for you.. instead of saying its ok my GF is actually on her way to do it right now he just said no I don't need any help thanks I can manage to which she kept insisting (obviously because she was unaware I was already on the case) DS then got upset because he wanted his mother to help his dad and he wouldn't let her. So I think its weird that a) she offered to do these things that have nothing to do with her whatsoever and b) DP didn't tell her I was doing it already!

He needed to go to the doctors the other day and I went with him - he had to contact his EXMIL as she was looking after DS for the morning and say he was going to be late collecting him as he was at the doctor -EXMIL then wanted to know the ins and outs about why he was there and who was with him (she offered to sit with him until she found out I was there) so DSS then went over to a friends house because EXMIL needed to go to work in the afternoon. She then kept ringing him all day to find out how he was and told DP that I should leave the doctors to collect DSS and that she would go sit with him?! She then got hold of DSS and told him that I would be collecting him and that "nanny would go and make sure daddy was ok"... I had NOT agreed to go collect dss who then got upset because I wouldn't leave to collect him (I actually couldn't leave as DP couldn't walk or drive so needed my help) and why on earth was she ringing for updates every 30 minutes when I don't see what business it is of hers?! but instead of telling her he was fine and stop fussing he just indulges her by telling her what the problem is and what they think it might be etc.... I can understand that she would want updates on behalf of DSS but she was no longer looking after him that afternoon so why the constant need for updates?

EXW then kept ringing when she had returned home from work to find out what was wrong and why he was at the doctors (really?!) and then kept texting for updates " how are you feeling now" etc... she then rang him the next morning and said right ive spoken to XYZ and they think they know whats wrong with you so I've booked you an appointment with someone I use, they are really good so you have to go there Friday 8am - they don't usually do such short notice but because its me I've managed to get you booked in... WTF?! so instead of saying sod off ill make my own arrangements he just says ok thanks and then goes to the appointment!

EXW rings him constantly asking if she can borrow X Y Z or can DP just fix the gutters, fix the fence, put a new fence up etc etc - when I get annoyed about this DP answers with its not to benefit her, its to benefit his son...

She recently wanted to go halves with DP and buy some pedigree animals which they would both take responsibility for (together) and then when they'd made a profit buy more and put the money into a trust fund for DSS.... well putting money jointly into a trust for DSS is not unreasonable but having this "hobby" together is unreasonable no?!

She bakes cakes/meals for him but makes out DSS has made them (he hasn't because he tells me mummy wanted to make a cake for daddy) DP just responds with that its her own energy shes wasting if she really is cooking them for him because hes not interested in her anymore and that I shouldn't make a big deal out of it because its just a cake now and then and he never shows any interest in her at all so its not doing any good.

Hes a very laid back person - will often let things go above his head rather than point them out or make an issue out of it because he says women are catty when it comes to ex's and see things that aren't really there or a problem just to show they are the alpha female!

His DS keeps having nightmares lately because of the video game he keeps playing - cant remember what the name of it is now but its an 18 rated game which his grandmother bought for him (DP's exmil) so I pointed this out to DP who has mentioned it to EXMIL but she said she didn't realise,yet still lets him play on it?! I said surely you should be telling her to take it off him but he said its out of his control what they do with him...

The weird thing is she's not (AFAIK) making any real moves on DP i.e. there are no messages declaring undying love or any arrangements where she tries to get the two of them together or anything like that its just these odd niggly things where she still wants to be a part of his life and still acts like his wife without the intimacy part IYSWIM.

If EXW rings DP and asks if he can have his DS on a night that he doesn't usually have him and we have made plans he will either just say yes straight away without even consulting me OR he will say no I am going out - she will ask where and he will say just out with some friends - he NEVER tells her hes made arrangements with me (or even tell her to mind her own business for that matter!) for what reason I don't know he just said its easier as she will tell DS that he would rather be with me than have DS...

One evening last week DP didn't finish work until late so when DS called and asked if he could go over for the evening he said sorry I wont be finishing work until late (it wasn't an agreed night but as it was half term he said he would have DS a few more nights) to which DS replied with ok so what about X (me) is SHE going to be going to your house tonight to which DP said yes possibly but shes an adult she can stay up a bit later, you should be asleep by the time I get home and DS again responded so its ok for HER to see you but not me?! This was quite a startling response from DS as it sounded more like his mother speaking rather than him! So when DP got to his house I was there waiting for him having cooked his tea and 5 minutes after he got through the door his DS phoned him just to say good night and immediately wanted to know if I was there to which DP said no.... IABU to think you shouldn't have to keep lying in order to keep the peace??

What do you think? I've already had the conversation with DP asking him to tell them to back off but he said he needs them on amicable terms because his job dictates that sometimes he cant have his DS on the agreed nights and they would need to cancel their plans in order to accommodate him, whereas if he rubs them up the wrong way they are well within their rights to say no sorry its your agreed nights you deal with it etc.

If I didn't know better I would say perhaps DP isn't quite over her but she really riles him up on times and he says how glad he is that hes not with her anymore because shes a complete nightmare and theres just no reasoning with her etc etc. Just don't know what to do really, everytime I bring it up he says im badgering him and making problems that aren't there and just let it go because hes never ever getting back with her but I'm just pushing him away with the constant digging and argueing... Thankyou if you managed to get this far!!

yes MeridianB he would shrug it off and saying I'm being too sensitive and that he has far bigger things to worry about than me bickering over things that don't matter and that I should just ignore it.

Says hes constantly trying to please me and please her (why is he trying to please her that's the point!)

IMHO the only people he should be trying to "please" is his DS first and foremost (without any question im not disputing that in any way shape or form incase someone thinks I am, I get that I will always come second that's not an issue) and secondly me. I don't get why he needs to please his ex and do things to make her happy which ultimately puts her feelings before mine in the grand scheme of things which I think is wrong.

I am not disputing that they should have a healthy amicable relationship whatsoever and its great that they all get on for the sake of DS but more and more lately its gone from doing things for each other for the sake of DS to doing things for each other for their own personal benefit that doesn't involve DS in anyway at all.

Sometimes it feels as though I don't actually exist for example DP stated he wanted to take DS away for a week in the summer holidays and the EXW said that she would organise it all for him and that her friend has a caravan in Devon that he could use for the week so she will get it booked - it only has one double bed she said which is plenty for you and DS seeing as he wont sleep on his own anyway.. at no point did he say well actually that's not enough room as GF will be coming.. he just said hmm yeah sounds alright i'll talk to DS about it.

So obviously I got arsey about this and he said ffs stop worrying she wont be booking it shes all talk she will forget so its not an issue and I'll just say I've booked elsewhere.. wtf?! This is what I mean, its like he purposely avoids having to talk about me and would rather just say he's booked somewhere else than say its not enough room.

Shes an EX because in his true laid back style he knew it wasn't working anymore but didn't want to be the one to leave as he was worried he wouldnt get to see DS anymore, so waited for her to tell him she wanted a divorce, kicked him out then regretted it 3 days later and begged for him to come back which he obviously didn't do.

I just wanted to say I really do sympathise. DH and I have had similar issues with boundaries when it came to the ex.

This article www.steptogether.org/emotionaladultery.html really helped him to realise that behaviours had to change in order for everyone to move forward. We had a few sessions with a counsellor also which helped as what I had been saying all along was being said but by someone impartial.

Well, you've definitely got a DP problem there.

Moving....are you sure you do actually exist, because it would appear from your DP's behaviour that you don't! There is no way I could handle this , 'keep the ex quiet, pretend gf is a passing phase' attitude towards my relationship with any man! It is something that should be addressed, because apart from your feelings, how confusing must it be for the child!

With regard to the sleeping and dummy arrangements, like you I find it ridiculous, but as has been said, you can have no input, and have no rights to express your opinion. It is harsh, but has to be endured, until you're actually married/living together, and even then you'd need to be very careful how you approached it...if at all!

Everything you've written about the ex screams, 'if I ignore gf long enough, and hang on to his coat tails, he will come back!' Well that's all very well, but can't she see the harm it is inevitably doing to her child?

this is not 'friendship' - this is not 'for the kids' - it's unhealthy habits left over from a relationship that has not moved on

Why isn't it a friendship? We don't know. It doesn't have to be unhealthy at all, it is only so if the new partner feels jealous of the relationship.

It is not common for exes to remain friends, but it certainly isn't totally rare either and yes, when there is a child, there is an even a better reason to be so.

That is not a criticism of OP in anyway and frankly, I would have found it very hard to start with if I'd found myself in this situation with my OH. However, I am pretty sure that I would have put my efforts into trusting him implicitly and accepting the friendship. If it'd become too much for me to cope without finding any reasons to believe there was more to their relationship than friendship, then I would have accepted that I was the one with the issue and that this set up didn't work for me and therefore my relationship didn't have any future.

I have read this mouth wide open!! I would be very uncomfortable in this situation not because I don't trust my partner I just think it is strange. I really don't think you are the one with the problem here not at all and even if you are that doesn't matter your DP needs to put you first here over and above his ex. You need to come first here as this doesn't affect the child / unlikely to effect the child he will still his dad/mum and there is nothing to stop them being nice to each other in drop offs and pick ups but this is going to far IMO.

The ex bakes him cakes I wouldn't trust DP ex food personally basically it sounds like they are (S)mothering him, and there is without a doubt I reckon some play to win him back I bet he loves it - all that attention! And you grumble and I expect he says there just being nice men are so gullible but I can see the ex baking his favourite cake singing the way to a mans heart is through his stomach

So IMO this time this needs to be about you He needs to accept these "things" are making you uncomfortable and that on this matter he needs to put you first, the child won't be affected if he doesn't wait in his mothers house for an hour personally I think he should have said no thank you we will wait in XYZ for you please tell me next time and I don't think he should have a key - I doubt there is anything that would cause the world to end if DC didn't have it for a short period of time. And if it's that world ending (am thinking of a certain rabbit we have) DC would not be without it.

All of this behaviour of course would be ok if you were comfortable about it, but your not that's the thing it make you feel unhappy and this is all that should matter to him on this as the child is unlikely to be affected one bit by stoping some of this behaviour!

Which is really bloody weird MIL at doctors is weird! ExMIL...

Really feel for you OP and hope it gets worked out for you

Swingofthings - I totally disagree that this is just a friendship. This is not normal in any friendship whether exes or not.

Without knowing the full story, I would guess that one or both of them is acting that way out of guilt. There may also be some fear from him that if he tries to change things then it may affect how often he sees his son.

My dh (who is training to become a counsellor) has come to the realisation that he used to do lots for the ex because he felt guilty for being depressed during the later stages of their marriage.

Guilt is a big factor, particularly for men, and wanting to have an easy life. I chuckle when women suggest that how dare a new girlfriend come between a sweet friendship and 'close' parental relationship as 'it obviously works for them'. I think most of us know it's the woman pulling the strings!

OP - another uncomfortable possibility is that your DP is using his Ex hanging on to his coat tails as a way of delaying commitment to you. My DP did this. Especially if they were smothered in their marriage, the reason they left is to get away from all of that oppression. My DP said he was afraid he had nothing left to give. Maybe your DP is happy playing the field, what better way than playing you off against each other.

I don't know why people think I have a problem with a friendship that's absurd I really don't! he has plenty of other female friends who are quite happily married that often bake him cakes in return for helping them out and I have no issues with this because I know they don't have an ulterior motive. The difference is his other female friends know all about me, ask about me, want us all to go out together and don't try to control him. EXMIL and EXW however DO have a problem with me, try to control him and generally act like I don't exist and DP does nothing to correct this so no I don't have a problem with a friendship, I do have a problem with being hidden and having them dictate to him constantly.

I know guilt has a big part to play in it all - he feels guilty for leaving his DS as his parents divorced when he was the same age and remembers how traumatic it was for him so doesn't want the same thing happening for DS. I think the fact that she hasn't moved on and found someone else doesn't help, it feels like he doesn't want to rub her nose in it because she's alone and quite possibly miserable if she massively regrets the divorce and I think he's worried she's going to eventually flip and stop contact with DS and by not mentioning me everything is ticking along nicely for him, she's happy in her own world by pretending I'm not really around, and that's obviously how he wants it to remain.

that's fine - but its not making me happy but do I back off and hope it will change soon and stay unhappy for the meantime or do I say enough is enough?

Yes bananas I think you might be right - it does feel like he's using all this as an excuse not to move forward, but not because he doesn't want to but again because of how EXW would feel about it..I've confronted him about this countless times, I have asked him if he purposely doesn't try to get DS in his own bed so we have no excuses left not to live together - he insists this isn't the case and that he does really want to live with me and start a family but I'm finding it harder and harder to believe this. It feels like until she has finally moved on he wont show that he has.

Part of me wants to say sort it out or I'm off but if he does decide to tell EXW and EXMIL to back off, they take offence and start being very awkward with regards to DS and it all backfires then obviously he's going to blame me and will probably end up resenting me for wanting my own way and making it harder for him...

This is not normal in any friendship whether exes or no
Is there a normality in friendship between exes? All I can say is that I have known people in this situation, when they get along great with their exes to the point where they would do these kind of things and yet there was nothing between them. It does happen and the fact that it is not common doesn't make it abnormal.

The couple I referred to broke up exactly for that reason: their relationship had naturally evolve into a friendship rather than a romantic one. They got along great, never argued, enjoyed each other's company, but they just didn't find each other attractive anymore and had no interest in being intimate in any way. They broke up and shared the care of their son. They lived separate lives but had no issues with going into each other's house, doing things for each other etc... When she started to date my friend, she explained that they had this sort of relationship and intended to continue to do so. She made it clear that they had spent every Christmas together and would continue to do so. He didn't mind at all though. He had two girls himself and was happy to spend most of that day with them (they then got together in the evening).

As I've said, her ex was part of her life and as such became a friend of his too.

So yes, it is definitely unusual, but I find it very insulting to insinuate that this sort of relationship can only happen out of left over feelings or guilt.

The op's ex doesn't want the op mentioned, it sounds like the child is being put in the middle of disagreements, her mother insists on sitting with him at the doctors, the op is practically pushed out of the way so his ex can still be involved. This doesn't sound like a healthy friendship like the one you have just described swing.

Yes if I were the DP I'd feel totally smothered and controlled! Reminds me of a friend at school who didn't want anyone else to be my friend and butted in when anyone talked to me, scary!

OP there is going to be kickback from Exes here - of course - can't make an omelette etc. You can't avoid it. DP can't avoid it. But what is he going to do. Choke on her cakes forever? What are you going to do? Either get tough and fight for your relationship. Or give him a clear ultimatum.

I think this situation will continue until you and Dp make a blindingly obvious commitment to each other by sharing accommodation, going away together without ds, starting a family - something that just can't be ignored. In short, behaving like a real couple.

Otherwise, you're put in the position of complaining about small things which can easily be justified or explained away and you can be made out to be the unreasonable one who's insecure or jealous. If you kick up a fuss, instead of the crazy ex, you'd be the crazy new gf.

Unfortunately, the current set-up suits everyone except you. And I don't think you can change it without major ructions. The ds is already on high alert to the possibility of changes. He gets on well with you, but he doesn't like the idea of your being with Dp when he isn't.

I think it's straight talking time with Dp. A time line for moving in together, starting a family. And in the meantime, he has to stop pretending you don't exist, minimising the part you play in his life so that the others have the chance to get used to the big changes that he's promised you he intends to make.

If he doesn't agree, carries on the same as before, then I think you may have to accept that he's not as committed to you as he says - and leave.

I maybe totally incorrect BUT it sounds like they are good friends. In my mind parents who remain good friends when divorced mentally 'hold' their children well. It will be positive for DSS.

What's not positive? The mil's over involvement with the GP visit. However she might just be a slightly anxious person and have expressed herself wrongly.

I wouldn't worry about what the DSS said. You have no evidence that it's the words of his mother and it would be silly to build up a case against her based on speculation.

They obviously care your DH still. Baking cakes, helping out with medical concerns/childcare and ringing to see how he is - are all the things my friends and I do for eachother. Yes my DH and I do all these things too but we have a romantic/sexual connection too.

The best thing you can do is feel secure in your relationship. You have chosen to be together.

However I would ask him to check your plans and acknowledge your presence to them

Being a step mum is so hard because as women, we know exactly how other women work, but the exes always use the child as an excuse which is so frustrating

really? I'm a woman, I don't 'work' in this way and never have. My children are not an 'excuse' to get to my ex. Unfortunately, they are the thing that binds us until they are old enough to make their own way in life. I would much prefer to have nothing to do with him but that isn't possible.

I don't work in that way either, but lots of women do!

More than you would like to think to the detriment of their children go for a stroll on the Internet and you will see so much of it - I could tell you stories that would turn your hair grey and toes curl!

So yes really!

So because some women might work in that way, you assume the worst in all? What about men...how do they work? Are they not capable of the same behaviour?

Being a step mum is so hard because as women, we know exactly how other women work, but the exes always use the child as an excuse which is so frustrating
As an excuse for what, have contact with her ex? Why would she want that unless there are still feelings there? If they are still feelings, then does it matter if OH is acting in a way that makes it clear that he has no intention whatsoever to go back to her? In this case, doesn't it come down to insecurity?

I think it's fair to say the OP was generalising based on her own personal experience and out of frustration for her situation. I have just seen a lot of awful stories where mothers use the power they have in absence of a court order; against the children's fathers.

OPs DP is never going to say anything in case it rocks the boat. There are many good dads out there who don't get to see their children as much as they would like so the thought of loosing the time they do have is heartbreaking and therefore they just go along with things.

Of course it could be that these women are just blissfully unaware of any potential issue I just doubt it from what the OP has said.

Looks to me like your DP is doing nothing to convince his ex or son that his relationship with you is serious. Which basically means it isn't. I think you're mad for waiting around for him to marry you and start a family, it's just not going to happen.

And if by some miracle it did, your life as a step mum would be bloody hard work based on the current set up. Your future children would always come 2nd best to their golden boy big brother.

You can do better.

I agree that in a break up involving DC, it's best to be on reasonable terms with your ex! But there is no way the OP's description sounds reasonable....it sounds exactly like a woman intent on getting a man back, and her mother's in on it too!

Run for the hills! This is not normal! It is good they can still get on, but the boundaries are practically non-existent! It is not what is best for the kids, it is what is best for her! What would be best for the kids is to have a clear separation between mum and dad, so that they understand and can come to terms with the fact that their parents are no longer together. What is going on here is unhealthy and no doubt your DS is hoping that this is only temporary, and mum and dad will soon be back together. I couldn't deal with this, and would not get in any deeper with this man!

Thank you for all your replies. I'm actually laughing as I type this because I can't quite believe what's happened this evening! exmil phoned dp earlier this afternoon and asked him to call in as she had something to tell him. So he did...she told him that she'd made an appointment with HIS doctor as she doesn't think the original appointment did any good so has made another one on his behalf and will be going with him. Secondly he's just come home with the following from her:-A huge home cooked lasagne, bangers and mash, a large Victoria sponge, three easter eggs, 4 home cooked pasties, 4 packets of biscuits, cans of larger and a multi pack of crisps!! Go on someone tell me I'm over reacting and this is normal please!! I really really want to text her and say thanks for all your gifts but I've taken them to a homeless shelter as they need all these items more than DP as my cooking is ample enough for him! It's childish and I won't but I REALLY feel like it! !

Your DP should, at this point, withdraw from his ex's bonkers family. Hes not going to though, while he's got the best of both worlds.

I'd leave the lot of them to their strange triumvirate.