DSDs inappropriate behaviour and DPs reaction

[BeeRose30]

Hello,

Thank you for reading this and sorry if it's long! This could also be a AIBU issue, but wanted to seek views from other step-parents.

Just had a lovely holiday with DP, DSD (15 years old), SIL and her DH.

We were in a restaurant one evening when I noticed that DSD was sitting with her knickers very obviously showing. She had a very short skirt on and she was leaning against the wall next to her, legs wide open, and one foot up on the chair. She was clearly just relaxed and comfortable sitting like that, but I got quite an eyeful and anyone looking at our table could have seen. I very discreetly whispered that her knickers were showing; not in a telling-off way, just in a 'heads-up' way as I would with a friend or family member. No one else at the table heard me. She shot me the filthiest look I've ever seen, which slightly took me aback, and sulked for the rest of the meal. I put this down to embarrassment, but when she did the same again the next day I thought I'd better mention it to DP as she probably isn't aware of what she's doing. She also does this a lot at home, which I personally find a bit odd, but have left it up til now. I think it was the fact that we were in public that made me feel like I should say something.

I picked a quiet moment alone with DP to mention this issue and said it might be worth just keeping an eye out and gently reminding her not to sit like that as it's a bit inappropriate at her age.

DP's response: "So you're basically calling my daughter a whore?"

I was/am gobsmacked by this response. I have no idea where it came from as DP and I very rarely have arguments and I never have, or would bad-mouth DSD.

What do I do? I haven't mentioned it again but surely can't just let this comment go. I feel a bit hurt that DP thinks I could imply such a thing. I was only trying to look out for DSD's best interests. Or AIBU? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Rachel - thanks for your post, I too think the whole protective Dad thing is ridiculous. My Dad was never like that with any of us so I find it silly. I've warned him that if he comes on too strong he could end up pushing her away when it comes to boyfriends etc.

BrandNew - Same! I was way to conscious of trying to be grown up to want my knickers on show!

Duck - I can feel there's something off-kilter (not in a horrible way) but can't put my finger on it. DP definitely relied on DSD too much emotionally which he acknowledges was totally inappropriate and this has led to a lot of issues which we are working through. I think the girlfriends did have an issue with DSD, but I suspect more because she made it difficult for him to go on dates etc. and he would pander to it. We managed to get through that.

I still do feel a little bit uncomfortable about the basic premise - that she should cover herself up because she's becoming older and therefore attractive to men
It's about learning whats appropriate and what's not. It's not appropriate to sit in a restaurant with your gusset (or boxer shorts) on display. If you want to do it at home, fine. its not about attractiveness it's about learning what's appropriate in social situations

Bee your more generous than me, I bet she knew her crotch was on display. She also knows that daddy will always side with her.

Driver & Nicole - I agree, I don't find it appropriate in public.

Penfold - before this happened I always thought DP would use his common sense rather than lashing out at me for daring to say something negative. Clearly not.

i don't think it's even something negative you said.
If it was accidental (I can't think why you'd do it on purpose), you only pointed out she needs to be a bit more self aware.
That's it.

You did absolutely the right thing, first by telling her in a discreet way and then by telling her dad. Don't get hold up by his response, it was a typical protective father response who refuse to accept that their baby could be seen as a sexual object and consider everyone thinking it as the one with the problem.

This will probably have the effect of making him open his eyes. Hopefully it won't trigger him going to the other extreme of wanting her lock in her room.

You definitely acted appropriately so don't feel bad about what happened.

Thanks so much for all the constructive opinions and kind advice. It's good to get outside perspectives on this. I'll definitely be approaching this over the weekend!

I was wondering if she was a mini wife and what do you know - he relied on her emotionally and it has caused problems...

She's quick to tell him about attention because it is guaranteed to garner a response from him that is familiar and wanted- she's his.
There are boundary issues here and over protective dad is the way this is coming out. It really isn't her fault that his romantic relationships have encroached and threatened their relationship in her opinion (more so than usual) - in extreme mini wife situations it echoes the dynamics of an emotional affair, I mean how would you feel if you had been in that position and suddenly here was the shiny new woman you were dropped for and you were expected to be happy about it?
It's not sexual, and by no means am I implying such, but it is inappropriate. It's far too emotionally complex for children to navigate.
I think he needs to recognize that he co-opted his dd's childhood and that he has to make peace with the fact she is a young woman with growing independence and soon to be making her own separate life. He can aid her in navigating situations, sexual or otherwise, that make her uncomfortable and give her the confidence to make good choices but he does not have the right to patrol around her or to prevent her maturity for his own reasons.
Was she expected to pick up the role again when his relationships broke down?
I wonder about his true feelings about women, he's possessive of her, his first response was that you were calling her a whore - really a whore? That's loaded with nasty little ideas of womanhood and an immediate focus on sexual motives - and he is creating a narrative about other men with his response to them that is not healthy for her to take forward.
She deserved more as a child. He overreacted. He needs to recognize that more than it being inappropriate he should be sorry and seeking to make amends by really securing the parent:child relationship. It will be a headfuck for her to be subjected to the ownership based limits he seems to indicate he will put on her and for her to continue to be encouraged to be daddy's while trying to explore adulthood and who she is.
He can't be having a relationship with you (so fulfilling his emotional and sexual needs) but keep her as backup, immature, no threat she will separate from him or he'll have to deal with her romantic relationships, based on the inappropriate attachments they formed when he was using her to meet those emotional needs - when she was a child. That's called having your cake and eating it and also echoes EA dynamics. When she was absorbing how relationships function theirs was dysfunctional.
TL:DR - he needs to recognize that he fucked up and owes it to her to get this right, for her sake. Apologising to you would be a start if he can realize he's gone off the boundary trail - again. Daddy issues, this is how you get them.

It's a harsh interpretation of the situation, a bit provocative but only to provoke the assessment of the situ through a different lens iyswim, but frankly I don't like how he's treated her or you. If he's a good egg who regrets he lost his way, as we all can, it can all be unicorns and rainbows. If he's not then it's probable there'll be bleak scenes ahead. I hope he is a good egg.

15 is such a difficult age I think. My DSD was hard at that age. 20 one minute, 6 the next and no way of knowing which she was when. DH didn't really know how to parent her, and teenages were all new to me then too.

I think in your situation, I'd pick your moment and try and re-run the conversation with your DP, explaining that you're sorry you obviously didn't explain yourself well - he obviously thought you meant she was doing it for attention, whereas you actually meant that she was being young and innocent and unaware of how she was sitting.

I definitely wouldn't have a conversation with DP and DSD both together, or say anything more to her unless it reoccurs ,- you don't want to make a huge deal out of it. Another time you could try making a joke of it if you have that kind of relationship - "oh, what pretty red knickers you have on today DSD!" But only if you feel she'd take that kind of banter OK.

Bernard - Goodness, you really have hit a few nails on the head in your post. I think there are definitely some mini-wife symptoms in this relationship. I think I need to have a serious think and a serious chat with him.

Yellow - I'm going to try a re-run tonight as we have some time alone. I definitely won't be bringing it up in front of DSD as I actually don't see her behaviour as the problem here - his reaction and way of dealing with it is!

Again, thanks for the replies. This is my first thread and I feel so much less lonely!

Wow, Bernard, what a fascinating post. Full of great insight into this generally.

OP, sounds like you handled this well and DSD and DH have both reacted oddly. The 'whore' thing is really weird.

Based on the complexity and deep-rootedness of this, they may benefit from some professional counselling? Not sure I'd want to be the one to suggest it though - sounds like they would both shoot the messenger.

I think at 15 she should have way more self-awareness and shouldn't be sitting like that in a restaurant either. If dd did this I'd ask her to sit properly at the table. But if she did that at school then other kids would certainly point out you could see her knickers, and she should be mortified. Very odd.

And as for your dh's comment -well. Words fail me.

Bernard - fabulous post and sounds like you have hit the nail on the head. Thank you.

Cocktail, I agree with you and others who find this inappropriate. I might have done it without thinking at 6 or 7 but at 15 I would have been mortified.

Agree with both Meridian and Cocktail, this is exactly where I was coming from when I whispered to her in the restaurant.

My gut is telling me this is the tip of an iceberg and counselling could be the key. If we don't get some sort of helpful process started soon, we're not going to have happy lives.

I'm not trying to discourage you from having a chat to fix short-term issues, Bee, but don't feel you have to solve the whole thing - it sounds very heavy duty and may even need years of therapy.

I'm no expert but do think that for some women, having a complex relationship with your father can lead to struggles in forming healthy relationships with men in adulthood. Many women wonder why they pick the wrong men and discover later that they were just attempting to replicate the first male-female relationship they knew.

Meridian - that's good advice, I need to keep reminding myself that I can't fix everything. One of my weaknesses is not knowing when to take a step back.

The father/daughter relationship thing is something I'm conscious of from the experiences of one of my girl-friends. She had counselling following a string of disastrous (and repetitive) relationships and is now getting married to a wonderful man . Her relationship with her father rings bells with DP/DSD relationship. She always worried about him and felt the need to look after him, in the way a spouse would, well into her 20s. It caused her a lot of stress. This is what DSD is like now. Super protective of DP. If I do anything that she perceives to be letting her Dad down I get the cold shoulder of disapproval!

op you sound like you are walking on eggs with this man and his d. You did nothing wrong. Your h's shocking reaction lets you know where you stand- a mile behind his d. Is that acceptable to you?

Amarmai - good question! And the answer is no, it's not acceptable. I can deal with issues that crop up, but only if I feel DP has my back and is fair. I don't want to just be an add-on to his life iyswim, I need to feel like we are a a unit. Will discuss this later with him.

This sounds like a recipe for a blow up!! Firstly it sounds as if your DP's 15 year old a) isn't entirely happy about sharing her dad with any other woman, and b) like all the rest of us at that age, she is discovering her female powers! She sat in a manner that blatantly showed her knickers, you mentioned it, but she did it again the next day! This sounds like she's telling you she can do what she likes and you've no control over her!
So, you mention it to her dad, he's obviously super sensitive about the growing sexuality of his beautiful daughter, so he is totally and inappropriately rude to you! Also, she is bringing the fact that she's attracting looks from men to her dads attention, maybe her way of saying...look I'm growing whether you like it or not, or maybe it's a case of look at me not her!! You have two problems here, 1) the 15 year old needs a little guidance on how to behave appropriately, but that shouldn't really come from you, and 2) you need to find out why your DP was so offensive towards you, and whether this is a sign of things to come., good luck!