Contact Arrangements

[MrsChiefTyrell]

Thought I'd post here to see if anyone has a similar situation or any knowledge of this.

My partner's kids live with us and see their mum alternate weekends. She wants more contact and he has offered her more - mid week contact. We have a final court hearing in a few weeks when hopefully this will all be sorted and a final order made.

She refuses to pay maintenance, none at all. She also refuses to contribute in any way to her own children's costs for activities, clubs, uniforms or anything. She is self employed with her unregistered small business and so CSA cannot touch her (we have tried for ages!). She has told the Judge she is unemployed and isn't claiming benefits or looking for work.

We are struggling to manage financially as we have to also pay for child care for before and after school for them, again she will not contribute.

So, what do you think of him suggesting that her contact days are arranged around my partner's working days? He works a rolling shift pattern so she'd get 50% of weekends but not alternate exactly and also she'd have midweek contact but on different days. This could be planned out well in advance for a whole year is necessary.

He wants to suggest this at the final hearing but is concerned how it will go down. He has to work as she won't contribute so i sit fair to ask she has them around his work to help us financially so we don't pay for childcare (plus then they don't have to go into childcare too!)

Isn't there some means by which child support can be ordered to be above the percentage it usually is if the NRP has a lifestyle not normally afforded to people on their (declared) income? Maybe you should look into that - though it's a separate issue from the contact schedule.

I wouldn't agree that the father should have contact just to suit the mother's work schedule either. I think that contact should be arranged in regular suitable times that is good for the dcs. Whether or not the OP can afford childcare for their children is not the mum's problem - she had nothing to do with their other 3 children. Contact issues should remain completely separate from financial issues/maintenance discussion for this very reason. The children's right to regular contact with both parents has got sweet FA to do with the maintenance paid (or not paid).

Again, I am saying this as someone who has not seen 1p of maintenance from my ex for 18 months. When we're sorting contact, that doesn't even enter into the discussion.

The mother is 'not working' and not claiming benifits that's why she can't pay for her children 'apparently'! So if she is doing nothing all day every day why wouldn't she take her children to suit the DFs work time so he can support them? If my DP didn't do anything and lived off free air then I would fully expect that he would look after his own children to allow them to get financial support. Yes, contact should be seoerate to maintrnence but surely common sense can also be used. It's bizzare that its not just a given ... Or am I missing something here! Ah, common sense, those were the days

No, because as is evident by the OP's posts, the moment the two are linked (as in "she doesn't work, so she should be able to work around his schedule" kind of mentality), then people get snarky. Just because she doesn't work, that doesn't mean that she should be pigeonholed into taking contact when he deems it to be most beneficial to his wallet. It's for the children's benefit. Again - is the mum going to be jerked around and schedule changed for contact visits if the father's work schedule changes? If he changes jobs? And again, the moment she has to cancel for some reason, perhaps illness or an emergency, it'll all go tits up and the father will be claiming she did it just to mess with his work schedule, blah blah blah.

Do you not READ the other threads about this kind of thing?? It's on here all the time, and people say it over and over and over again. Set up your own childcare as it's not a good idea to rely on the ex - things always end up in fights.

Their father working and paying for them, on his own, is also for the children's benifit

Just piping in that there is another thread about a dp who is currently out of work and the op is getting asked why he hadnt put money aside to ensure he could provide maintenance. and how dare he not provide financially . I go back to my original post on here about mum not paying maintenance and had this been a dad he'd be getting maulled for it. But its ok because it's mum not paying in this scenario.

Yes children should be allowed to be with each parent regardless of financial contribution but it does seem that mum is very demanding in this situation given she is not paying maintenance. Why is it fair that the ops ex has to work all he can to provide financially for childcare and everything else and mum gets to say if or not when she sees her kid.

Its not fair always but its just the way it is for thousands of rps up and down the country.
Its sad and makes me angry but there's not much you can do. You cant force someone to be a responsible parent sadly. The cmo are useless.
Until the cmo start investigating non paying nrps properly then we are all stuck like this.

With you on that one always the double standards are

It's not fair. But it happens. My ex is not paying any maintenance. He has enough money for everything else for himself, including a recent trip abroad. But maintenance for children? Nope. Not 1p. As irritating as that is, there's no point bringing that into the contact discussion. They need to be two entirely separate issues.

If she had the children, and she said to you that you needed to have your contact schedule with the dcs around her work schedule, even if it was a complex rolling schedule? I imagine you probably would. The only reason you're saying she should have to agree is because she doesn't work or contribute financially. And that shouldn't have any bearing on it, as it's a separate issue.

Where exactly are the double standards?

sorry, missed a few words... meant to say "I imagine you probably would not be too happy with that."

I didn't mention the maintenance as it seemed pointless as I can offer no advise.. Obviously she should pay as should every NRP...

I think actually as she has no work and isn't planning to work ( apparently) then yes she could make her childs life easier.

Yes the other 3 children aren't her issue.

Does she have a partner? how is she paying housing? obviously there is some sort of fraud and I would be chasing the Tex office

I guess I'm just disappointed that it's not what I wanted to hear and a little bit desperate now as I have no idea how we will cope longer term

with all due respect, there are literally thousands of PWC out there who are managing simply because they have no choice but to do otherwise. I hold down a full-time teaching job and manage three primary school children with no financial contribution from my ex. I have no real family support (my other is very old now and can't really help out without becoming exhausted very quickly) but I have to manage. I pay for full time childcare that I don't use - because my ex can't be trusted to have the children on his regular day/evening and wants to change it every time he gets a new girlfriend to fit in with whatever her arrangements are with her work and her ex. That makes my childcare costs 20% higher than they should be - because he won't take any responsibility.

I genuinely don't know how I balance my books. I went 4 1/2 years without fixing the shower because I couldn't afford it. I have very little pension to speak of and can't make the extra contributions I really need to. Your partner at least has you and the ability to work around each other's needs so that children are cared for and adequately supported.

At no point would I suggest that it's my right to dictate to the ex when he has the children (despite the dictating he does to me!) It's just tough. I have no choice and just have to get on with it.

There are no double standards being shown here. None at all.

The double stands I refer to are between this and another thread.

Here mother won't pay maintenance and is demanding contact on her terms. And apparantly this is ok to some people as contact is what counts.
The other thread father can't make maintenance as out of work and he's a bad guy for it.

Nobody is saying that it's okay that she's not paying maintenance. It's not. But it's a separate issue from the contact.

No we are explaining how the courts see it. Maintenance has nothing to do with contact. That doesn't make the nrp any less of a knob but its the way it is.

she doesn't work so is free to have residency and my partner works to support the kids and so he should just have contact. Then she can claim benefits, council house, housing benefit and get a nice big chunk of his wages in maintenance

Ah, well, that's totally different.

If residency has been removed from your DSC mum, and she is fighting for it back in court, then your DP will have to be honest with the court and say that he is unable to financially meet the needs of their DCs as resident parent. The court will then decide which is the "least worse" option for your DSC.

the reality is that your DP has DCs whom he is responsible for. If their mum was dead, or otherwise unable to have contact with them, then he'd be on his own in terms of providing childcare etc. what on earth was he thinking in the first place, accepting residency of DCs that he can't afford?

the reality is that your DP has DCs whom he is responsible for. If their mum was dead, or otherwise unable to have contact with them, then he'd be on his own in terms of providing childcare etc. what on earth was he thinking in the first place, accepting residency of DCs that he can't afford?

A little harsh perhaps?

We will of course manage somehow - it's either that or put them all in the workhouse! RP's almost always "manage" to tighten their belts, go without themselves for the children and budget more and more carefully.

I know we will manage, we have to, there's no other bloody option. We may have to downsize (I can hear her moaning now about the kids not having their own room!) we may have to move to a cheaper area (she'd definitely moan about that one!) and cut back where we can.

We accepted residency (had equal shared care beforehand) because the kids were better off with us and we never in a million years thought she would be quite so shit to her own children as to deliberately quit her job and hide her income to avoid contributing towards them AND refuse to admit to the Child Benefit office that they now live with us. What sort of Mother does that! When it was equal shared care we shared costs with her equally for all things for their children - it's only since she's had a tantrum about them coming to live with us that she refuses to contribute.

The biggest joke of all is that my partner represents himself at Court as we have no spare money and she has a top notch top rate Barrister for every single hearing paying hundreds of pounds per hour for that service but refuses to buy her own children a £2 school shirt from Tesco and will send them to school in plimsolls so she doesn't have to buy a pair of school shoes. Luckily the kids are too little to know what she's like and still think she's the greatest mummy ever and we obviously let them believe that for as long as possible, but they will see for themselves one day and it will be horrible :(

Look, it DOES suck. I can't go into details with my dcs about what an utter knob my ex is either. Yes, it's irritating. Yes, I am worried sick about how they'll take it when the penny finally drops and they understand. And yes, I have to manage without any maintenance from him because he won't pay it. But I take the high road because I want to be able to say to the dcs honestly that I did the best I could and because I want to be able to look back and say "yep, he did his best to shit all over us, but I was fair and did the right thing."

Not a huge consolation, granted, but what other choice do we have?

OP apologies if you think I was being harsh - your earlier posts implied a desperate situation that your DP had created by agreeing to residency;

I'm just disappointed that it's not what I wanted to hear and a little bit desperate now as I have no idea how we will cope longer term

You're right, you will "have to manage". The CB situation is temporary, and as the courts are involved, it should be backdated to when the DCs were first ordered to live with you. So that's a cash flow, not an affordability, issue. Once you get CB, then tax credits are accessible to you, as well. If your DP had 50:50 care previously, then he will have already been meeting a lot of the costs that RP incur.

Imagine a mother posting on here saying my partner And I are really struggling to afford my DC, they're dad pays nothing towards them, won't even buy a shirt for them and now he wants 50/50 residency of the children.

Then imagine the response if someone replied what were you thinking having children you couldn't afford!!!

Incredible!!!

JackieOH without exception, everyone has said it's not acceptable that the mother doesn't pay maintenance. But thousands of parents - single, couples, separated, non-separated - have to manage. And they don't get to say 'you can only have the children to fit around my work schedule'.

Pp said 'what eas he thinking of accepting residency for children he couldn't afford'!! If someone on here wrote that about s mother, can you imagine the redponses?!! But he is their father do its different?!

jakie your posts have the impression that your family will be homeless because you say that have no idea how you will cope. That is NOT a responsible situation for your DP to have created for his DCs or for you.

You also say that your DSC mum is seeking to regain residency through the courts - but you have not said how you ended up with residency in the first place? Was it court ordered? Did your DP seek it? Is it due to abuse/neglect?

It sounds to me like your DP gained residency without thinking things through - you don't mention an unexpected reduction in household income, so how did your DP think you would manage as a family? Did he assume that his ex would fit in with whatever he decided suited him? That's a little niaive, given that she had lost residency of the DCs and is seeking to get it back.

I don't think there's anything wrong in what you're asking OP. Your DP's X has told the court she is unemployed. Therefore, she is available to see her children. In terms of what's best for the children, surely that is going to mean regular contact with parents that also facilitates the parent in work to continue earning to provide for the child - what with only one parent working and the other not contributing any maintenance...

FWIW, I disagree with the 'children are not pay per view'. I would prioritise contact over maintenance, yes, but IMO a parent who consistently refuses to pay for reasons other than poverty is a parent who isn't prioritising their child, and therefore cannot claim to be a good parent let alone offer much of value. IME, non-payers are usually the ones who are also totally inconsistent about contact, and more and more research shows that inconsistent contact is more damaging than none at all.

IMO non-payers who cannot plead genuine poverty should face criminal charges of child neglect or abandonment.