Supporting stepchildren through uni

[LittleLionMansMummy]

Dsd2 is 15 and currently undecided about higher education, although seems very keen on child development so thinks she may like to go into nursing - specifically paediatrics.

Dh stops paying maintenance for dsd1 in August and her mum has said she won't be seeking further financial help for her as she's been nc for 4 years with no intention of being part of our lives. However she's said she will expect dh to provide financial support for dsd2 if she decides to go into higher education. Dh would like arrangements to be made directly with dsd2 at that time as she's effectively an adult. Although we hate the idea of young people starting their lives with debts, we couldn't afford to shoulder a tuition fees loan on her behalf (which we suspect her mum may expect) for god knows how many years and think that when they reach adulthood they should take some financial reaponsibility themselves. However, we think it would be fair to help with maintenance costs - accommodation, food etc. We'd never see her struggle, but think our arrangements should be with her. There is no animosity with her mum, I think dh just wants to put a bit of distance between them as dsd becomes an adult.

What have others done? Have you continued to pay the same amount of maintenance? Who is it paid to? How much can/ do you help? Is it accepted that the child pays the tuition fee while parents help with the costs of living?

When I went to uni, i worked during my hols and got a small top up loan for the rest. Of course I didn't have tuition fees to worry about, but i don't recall getting financial support from my parents (because they couldn't afford it!) I recognise times have changed and if she chooses paediatric nursing then it's not like she'll be earning a fortune to aid loan repayment. I think it would be a great career choice for her and would like to offer as much support as we can without making ourselves struggle financially (we have a 4yo ds too). When dh finishes paying maintenance for dsd1 in August his payments for dsd2 will be £220. He's said that the money he saves (around £50) will be paid to dsd2 as an allowance.

Appreciate it is more complex, but it does seem as though elder DC of the parents whose relationship broke down can miss out sometimes and that this is unfair.

As for the child "opting out" of the family, I would look to my conscience about the reasons for this: unlikely to be simply down to the DC.

Well Duck if you count my dh daring to try to parent her in any way then no, it wasn't entirely down to dsd1. He suggested that a better reaction to a gift would have been 'thank you' as opposed to the grunt and putting it to one side. And that was it. She stopped coming, wouldn't return dh's call when he tried to discuss things, explain he loves her and wanted to sort things out, completely blanked him whenever she saw him, and eventually - after dh had despaired and sought help from his ex - accused him of calling her mum a bad mum (he didn't) and stated she never wanted to speak to him again. Damn right I'm fucking angry. It's called parental alienation. She was a child when she made her choice, she's an adult now who has reaffirmed that she's 'happy with her life as it is' and doesn't want dh in it. Why would any parent, resident or nr, wish to support a 'child' who has opted out of their life? Dh continues to 'do the right thing' by sending cards and letters (which never receive acknowledgement). If she ever makes a reappearance she'll receive financial support at that stage. Buggered if I'm going to take money from her younger sister and brother just on the off chance she'll decide to engage again at some point in the future.

DSD ceased contact with DH when she was approx 14 (her mother really fanned the flames at the time, which wasn't helpful) and she's now 24-ish. So, as the previous poster commented, the decision to cease contact was made while she was a child, but as she's now an adult, she could build bridges if she wanted, but chooses not to. And no matter what happens in the future I can't see DH being minded to hand her a similar amount of money that we spent on DSS, just to 'even things out.'

The situation you describe LittleLion suggests quite a profound relationship breakdown which goes beyond one instance of not being grateful for a present. Both parties have to take responsibility for this breakdown and, as the adult, your DH should carry the larger share of that responsibility.

I don't think it's right to cut one child out altogether, irrespective of contact. Parental responsibility doesn't stop. It's not something a child has to earn.

She hasn't been cut out. She cut herself out - massive difference.

As for relationship breakdown i can see how it looks to an outsider. Until that point there were absolutely no problems - no arguments, no animosity between. We are as gobsmacked by the reaction as posters on here apparently are. There were no signs. And believe me dh has tried - harder and longer than most others would have done. Really until you have lived through the kind of situation Petal and I have it's hard to comprehend.

He is not prepared to pay for an adult who refuses to even hear him out. That does not mean he's given up or cut her out. He continues to keep knocking at the door. For our sanity, his mental health and the longevity of our relationship he has simply had to form some kind of closure. He will continue to remind her he's there but no longer has any expectations she will ever reciprocate.

I would also question should shoulder responsibility for the relationship breakdown: it transpired that every discussion he had ever had with his ex, warts and all, had been repeated to dsd by her mum. I would say the burden of responsibility rests quite heavily with her.

Thankfully she has seen that her approach was damaging and has changed a lot where dsd2 is concerned. Things are much improved and no longer acrimoniois but I still believe she was irresponsible to expose dsd1 to that level of parental discussion.

It's not that unusual, I don't think, littlelion.

There has been a lot of work done in the last few years as to the impact of high conflict between separated parents on the DCs - even when there is no deliberate or inadvertent alientation, some DCs align themselves with one parent and reject the other as a coping strategy to deal with the conflict they are exposed to and feel themselves.

While all the DCs in a situation may know that mum gets upset when they talk about dad,for instance,, one DC may cope with that by avoiding talking to mum about dad, another might argue with mum and say that mum should get over it, and a third may feel so guilty about upsetting mum that they find it easier just to stop seeing dad.

Advice to parents who have been rejected in this way seems to be limited to "leaving the door open". Only when the child is ready to re-engage will they accept their parent as they are, rather than place conditions (such as financial equality with other siblings) on the renewed relationship.

I've read quite a lot about parental alienation and initially we certainly understood that as the oldest her memory will be longer (youngest can't remember her parents being together) and she must have been affected. We tried very hard to remember this. For our part we tried very hard to shelter her from some of the disagreements - encouraged her to talk positively to us about her 'home' life, never shared with her the content of discussions. The only thing we did was correct her when she spoke about her stepfather as 'dad' which they were both encouraged to do as soon as he moves into the family home. We explained we knew it was hard to break a habit, but dh was and will always be her dad - he was very much still on the scene and saw them every weekend etc. But she was always quite sensitive and knew more than we thought from her mum. When dh asked for his ex's help when dsd went nc she shrugged her shoulders. It transpired there had been a discussion between dsd and her mum in which her mum stated that at the age of 14 she had the right to decide whether or not she saw dh. Upon hearing this dh asked his ex if she'd considered that she was failing in her duty as a mother to ensure her daughter had a healthy relationship with her father. This was translated to dsd as 'your dad says I'm a bad mother'.

So we can see that to some extent dsd is a victim, certainly as a child she was. But we cannot forget the hurt and pain that we've gone through. The countless rejected calls, letters, cards and texts. We went through something i can only liken to bereavement. Every significant anniversary that went past without a reply was another knife to dh's heart. He could have coped with anger but not silence. Every time it happened it threw our home life into turmoil. With death you have a funeral, get the chance to say goodbye and then move on. But this cast a shadow over everything, every day. So i hope people might understand things from our perspective and accept that we have had to 'grieve' and move on, draw a line. I loved her too and we'd always felt much closer than we ultimately were. But she's an adult now who has made her feelings clear. The best thing we can now do is focus on our remaining children and concentrate on the remaining positive things we have in life.

Initially I blamed the ex for the breakdown of DH/DSD’s relationship. They had a very minor father/daughter spat over a typical ‘teenager’ issue, and then DSD refused to visit DH again unless she got her way. The ex indulged DSD and allowed her to stop visiting her Dad. I think that both DSD and the ex enjoyed the drama they caused at the time, but we thought it would settle.

I also thought DSD’s position would soften once she started Uni, and was spending less time with her mother, but that didn’t happen. I suspect positions had become entrenched by then, not to mention pride and stubbornness probably made it harder for her to re-establish contact (assuming she wanted to).

However DSD is now 24, she’s worked overseas for a couple of years, and is now living back with her mother (quite near to us). She is an adult, totally responsible for her own actions, and yet has made no attempt to rebuild bridges with DH. So whilst the ex was, IMO, initially to blame for the situation, I think DSD now has to take responsibility.

Someone has mentioned bereavement, and that’s exactly how DH feels about it. He’s only seen his daughter once in 10 years (they tried to have a coffee together a couple of years ago, but it didn’t go well) and has got to the point where, despite not liking the situation, he has grown used to it. Just like you do when someone dies. You might not be happy that they’re gone, but over time you do adjust.

So we concentrate on DSS. He’s had lot more financial support from us than he would have done if his sister had been around (obviously this would have diluted his ‘share’), and no doubt this will be thrown back at DH at some point. But I completely agree with DH’s decision to support the child who’s been in his life, and not the child who isn’t.

Going back to the uni thing, I notice that everyone assumes you carry on paying the same amount. I would be fine doing that if I thought we could do the same for dd, but I don't think we will be able to afford it. Our plan is to stop paying and then split the amount into two - half saved for dd and half given direct to dss. Partly this is because dd is 8 years younger and I think we will be getting close to retirement when she goes to uni.

OP, please don't think I'm unsympathetic to what your DH has gone through. I'm not. But my heart goes out to your poor eldest SD as well. She was involuntarily involved in her parents' breakup in a horrible, completely inappropriate way when she was a child, and in no position to stand her ground and stop that happening. The damage and pressure of that must have been horrendous, and in the end she did the only thing she could do, if she was to preserve her mental health, and cut out her father so that she didn't have to live with the cognitive dissonance of her mother saying he was XYZ, and then having a loving relationship with this person her mother was so savage about.

Please don't say she was selfish and self-obsessed. If she were, she'd have been able to manage both parents without taking on board her mother's anger and emotional incontinence in that way. It affected her enough to make her sever contact only because she wasn't totally self-obsessed, surely?

I also notice your son is 4, and her removal from your lives happened 4 years ago, too. I can't help wondering what insecurities her mother may have fuelled with the new arrival.

It's a horrible situation for all concerned - I suppose the only bright spot is their mother realised the harm that was being caused, and managed things differently with the younger child from then on. But the damage to the elder can, at this stage, only be lifelong.

On the main point: pay the support directly to DSD2, yes. And it might be nice if you could offer to be her guarantor for accommodation, should she need one? Student digs usually do.

Sleeponeday - at what point will you consider the OP's DSD to be old enough to take any responsiblity for her actions?

Thanks sleepiness. I agree it's been messy.

The irony is ds's birth had brought us all close and dsd1 absolutely doted on him. There was no malice or jealousy, just pure excitement. We told my dsds i was pregnant before we told even my parents, such was the importance to us that they felt fully involved from the start. He was about 10 months old when they had the disagreement and the last we spoke to each other was on his first birthday when she created quite an atmosphere, I spent much of the time trying to comfort her/ talk some sense into her. I thought I had made progress and things seemed brighter but instead she became further entrenched. Very weird. Apart from anything else I am still angry that she also ceased contact with her baby brother after seemingly caring about him so much.

Anyway thanks for the advice about uni support. Dh has said he'll speak with his ex about a support package but make arrangements directly with dsd2.

Sorry meant sleeponeday - new phone autocorrected to sleepiness!

Sleeponeday - at what point will you consider the OP's DSD to be old enough to take any responsiblity for her actions?

What actions? Opting out from the unbearable pressure of being trapped between two parents, and owing love and loyalty to both? She didn't create this situation, she simply chose the option that caused her least pain.

I'm trying to say this as nicely as possible: just because her actions caused pain does not make them wrong, any more than the decision of one or both parents to walk away from the marriage were wrong, despite the collateral damage inevitably caused to the children. Just as with the adults in the situation, she drew her line in the sand in terms of what she could bear. Your seeming belief that her emotional wellbeing matters less than her father's doesn't, I'm afraid, lead me to think you are being fair. She has every right to decide that something she clearly finds unbearable has to end. Is it fair, when her mother was the one applying the pressure, that the mother is not the excised parent? No, of course it's not - it's the absolute opposite. But the tragic fact is that when parental alienation happens, a child may end up having to choose to remain sane, and they will almost always choose the parent who affords them primary care.

She may reconsider when she has her own kids. Or she may just remember the whole mess as a shitstorm of horrendous proportions, and continue to demonise the non-resident parent as a result. It is simply unfair of you to expect someone whose childhood was blighted by adult choices to owe those adults Herculean emotional efforts in later life, in order to soothe the hurt of one of those adults. It is NOT fair, please don't misunderstand me, that the parent who didn't engage in these games is the one suffering now. But the alternative, in actuality, is that his daughter suffered instead at the time, every bit as badly and more. And now she will have to cope with a reality about her mother, and her own choices, that would be horribly painful, all over again. Eliot said that, "human kind cannot bear very much reality" and it's the truth, none of us really live with it. We all live with comfortable self-deceptions, to a greater or lesser extent, and for her to look back at the events that led to this severance and face her mother's actions and the more complex reality may simply be more than she can cope with. I'm also afraid that, in emotional terms, it may not even be the best thing for her, if there is huge hostility between the parents. The OP's situation is a bit different, in that the mother has altered her stance and therefore the elder girl wouldn't be piggy in the middle anymore, but as I said, she would have to face some realities she probably will never want to.

It's just not reasonable to expect the children, even as adults, to behave with flawless fairness and insight and maturity and reason, when the adults responsible for their wellbeing couldn't manage it. They're going to be damaged by their experiences, these kids. Asking that they revisit events horrible enough to make losing a parent preferable, after they have presumably found a modus vivendi that allows them to move on, isn't really thinking of their best interests, is it? I absolutely understand that you hate seeing your partner suffer, and that it would be in his interests for her to see things his way, blame her mother, and reconcile. But that may not be in her interests, if it reopens a horrible can of worms. Sometimes, kids have to move past grim childhood experiences to have happy adult futures.

More bluntly, why are you assuming she has any responsibility to her parents in how she manages to survive the fallout of their divorce, and to reach an adult life worth having? She doesn't, I'm sorry but she doesn't. The person to blame here is whichever parent hated their ex more than they loved their child. If this girl lets her own kids down, abuses a partner, cheats or steals, then sure, that's on her. Cutting out the parent she can most easily live without as a way to survive emotionally is not.

Sorry this is long, but as someone whose father has married 4 times, and whose baby half and step siblings have had merry hell wreaked upon them, I take it with a pinch of salt when step-parents express indignation over the failure of those kids to meet their parents' needs.

Oh - and I also know a good stepmother is worth her weight in diamonds.

I do understand what you're saying, I really do. But ultimately the emotional wellbeing not just of my dh, but myself, my other dsd and our ds is the thing that matters more to me now and I make no apologies for that. Just as dsd has exercised self preservation and seemingly moved on, so too must we, for our own emotional wellbeing.

LittleLion I honestly, absolutely don't think you, or DH, have done a thing wrong. And just as your SD had to save herself from it all, you have a duty to her sister, your own child, and your husband. I completely understand and agree with you on that.

You are a great stepmother. That's patently obvious from this thread - yoyr generosity in financial and emotional terms could not be plainer. It's horrible that the damage wreaked by one angry mother has harmed her own child to this extent, and my heart does go out to your husband, too. My only point, and it was for Petal, is that you cannot blame the girls in this equation either. They have to do what they must to get through their adolescences in one piece, and horribly (for both them and their fathers), cutting out one of the parents so they weren't torn in two was it.

My only real point is that Petal's anger with and blame towards her stepchild is misplaced. It doesn't make the situation right or fair, but such is the nature, sadly, of human relationships.

But I don't feel angry towards DSD, if anything I feel indifference. And DH is the same. She's been gone a very long time. I only met her once or twice, a decade ago. But I still maintain that at age 24, her lack of contact with her father is entirely her choice.

Thanks for the clarity sleeponeday. Yes, human relationships can be complicated and messy and we'd all like to think we're beyond reproach but in reality mistakes get made, either by design or mistake. Two people will always see different sides of the beach ball, it's just a shame people are not always mentally equipped to deal with that recognition and move on. For our part we're in a happier place having emotionally shifted our expectations (ie we have none) and focused on the positives, of which there are many. Every time I see dsd2 and ds together I'm filled with pride. She's a beautiful girl, inside and out, who is a huge part of all our lives and has been involved in so many happy memories. I don't begrudge her a thing and I'll always treat her the same way I treat our ds and she knows it though jokingly refers to me as her 'stepmonster'