Moving abroad?

[JakieOH]

Looking for some advice here, I have a bit of an issue

My DPs eldest DD is at our house this weekend. Last night she told me her mum had a secret that she is not allowed to tell anyone especially dad so she couldn't say anymore (she is 9 and has her dads ability to keep 'secrets' )

She told me that she maybe is moving abroad next year . I don't really want to give details as they are quite specific but I have every reason to believe this is true. In fact it's something I wondered that might happen for a while now. I haven't said anythin to DP yet because I know it would start a shit storm and that DSDs mother would be angry with her for saying anything when I say abroad I mean the other side of the planet!

Anyone who has read my PP knows that the relationship with my DPs ex is less than ideal,however, things have improved drastically over the last week with us all coming to an understanding of sorts (or so I thought) now this has happened. The children are very close to their dad and have regular frequent contact. For all our battles I do think she is a good mum and she loves her kids. Saying that she certainly doesn't care about DP and has gone out of her way to make life difficult for him.

My questions are

• Should I mention this to DP this weekend or leave it for just now? We are very open with each other and it doesn't sit well not telling him.
  
• Can he actually stop this happening if she decides to go? Looking at it it sounds like he could stop it initially but if she really wants to go he may not be able to stop her
  
  like I said I absolutely believe, for reasons I can't go into here, that This is very much a possibility. Not too sure what to do about it.

[JakieOH]

I'll post in legal -if I can find it- this was maybe the wrong place

[AltogetherAndrews]

Yes, you have to tell him! Can you imagine if someone you loved knew this about your child, and didn't tell you?

I think, so long as he has parental rights and responsibilities, there are steps he can take, but it will involve lawyers and Court. If I were him, I would say nothing to his ex, to avoid dropping his daughter in it with her mum,but go get legal advice.

[JakieOH]

I know, I just told him. He actually didn't kick off but agrees it is probable that she will try this. Just when I thought we had turned a corner and things would settle down. He isn't going to let on to his DD that I mentioned it. She is only 9, not sure if he is going to mention it to the mother. Think I'll suggest he doesn't but it's his choice really. We will speak about it later, he is away swimming with them I'm really worried about this. He loves his kids so much, he is a fantastic father.

[Bellemere]

Go straight to court for a prohibitive steps order. Tell him to go to his local Families Need Fathers meeting or get some help from a solicitor or a McKenzie Friend.

[JakieOH]

Nothing's actually been said by the mother, just the DD has mentioned it and we think it's very likely that it is the case. It certainly wouldn't happen for at least a year due to her situation. can you get a prohibited steps order on the assumption that this will probably happen in, say, a year and a half or should we wait?

[PeruvianFoodLover]

If both you and, more importantly your DP, know of circumstances that lead you to believe that what your DSD has said is 'likely', then its not unreasonable to apply for a prohibited steps order on those grounds, IMO.

For instance, if your DPs ex has family overseas, or is in a relationship with someone whose home is abroad, then it's quite reasonable to apply for a prohibited steps order to prevent your DSD living abroad with her mum.

[hampsterdam]

Wouldn't mention it to the mother for the dsd sake but go and get legal advice ASAP.
If it does happen what is the mother likely to do about telling your dp?leave it as late as poss?not tell him at all?

[juneau]

Your DP should be able to block this move, unless the ex-w can come up with extremely compelling reasons to the contrary. I'm assuming that she is Aussie/Kiwi and wants to return to her country of origin now her UK marriage has broken down? Its understandable from her POV, but completely unreasonable and something she should've made her peace with when she had a DC and settled in the UK.

Get legal advice asap. You'll need a lawyer that specialises in immigration issues, I would think (although I could be wrong).

[JakieOH]

Like I said I can't really give details but there is every chance this is in the pipeline. I'm actually not that surprised. She has family there and would easily get a job too.

He is going to speak to her tomorrow when he drops them off, think I'll make myself busy enough not to go on that journey. I thought paying off Her debt was the worst thing that could happen, this is a whole new ball game! it's hard to believe that a mother would do that when a dad is so involved with his children. And why say it to a child? It's sad really.

He is going to speak to his parents soliciter on Monday for some advice depending on the outcome if his talk with her.

[JakieOH]

Sorry x posts, she is British. She would be emigrating. She isn't happy with Her situation here that had never been a secret really

[swingofthings]

He really shouldn't talk to her about it as it will go back to your SDD, probably with a telling off from mum that she can't keep a secret and it will never tell her anything, and she will resent you for having told her dad. I would agree that he should bring it up if she said she was about to go next week, but we are talking about a year. He doesn't know where this idea stands from utopia to all planned so could be steering trouble for nothing.

Clearly if mum doesn't want to know it is because she knows he will kick off, so what's the point of telling what she already knows.

From a legal perspective, it is not as easy to remove children from a country as some parents think. He could indeed take steps to prevent it and she would have to make a good case to a judge for her reasons to go. That would involve explaining why she can offer a better life where she is going, why it wouldn't be beneficial for the children to live with their dad, and prove that everything is in place, ie. job/financial security, accommodation etc...

If I were you and your partner, I would say nothing, but make your SDD feel that she can tell you about it if it comes to it, get a feel of how she feels about it and only approach the court, mum when it comes to a point that it might indeed come to fruition.

[JakieOH]

Thanks for your reply swing. I agree that DP shouldn't mention it to the mother because of that very reason. She will definitely rage at the SD but DP is so angry that I think it's inevitable that he is going to speak to her. Things have changed now anyway. DSD has, since I posted, told DP, his oarents and SIL that she is moving so it's kind of our there now anyway.

The problem is that leaving it could allow the mother to continue any plans she has. Given her current situation it will be easy for her to do this move (children aside) and she could potentially be helped with paperwork, visas etc by companies. Saying that it would be highly unlikely she could do it without him knowing.

He will be able to get a gist of the possibility Shen he speaks to her ( I can see it blowing up like a nuclear bomb) but like me, he thinks that thus is likely a plan she is making.

If it wasn't for her circumstances I would have thought she had done this just to upset DP, knowing there was no chance the SC would keep tgat 'secret'. I think DP is also angry about the fact his DD now thinks she is moving abroad, no matter if it's true or not IUSWIM. She should never have mentioned it to her. No doubt we will find out tonight

I smell a war!!

[swingofthings]

The thing, she is legally entitled to make plans, what she is not legally entitled is assume that she can take DSD with her. He can't stop her making these plans.

He is angry right, understanbly so, but acting out of anger when there is already tensions is only going to make it worse. Things would be much better if he could calm down first and thing of the best way to approach the situation.

Imagine he goes all mad, telling her she has no right to take his daughter out, that she is selfish and manipulative etc... when the reality is that she got excited one evening, told DD about it, but then realised the following day that it was unrealistic and that she wouldn't carry on with this dream?

I do agree that it was a very stupid thing to do to tell DD, but that's even more reason for him to act responsibly. War is never won by either parties, and certainly never by the victims.

[JakieOH]

I agree swing. I do think he will just ask her because there is a slight chance that is been blown out of proportion. She doesn't take well to DP questioning anything so I suspect it will erupt. I've told him also he needs to pick his battles carefully and if she kicks off best thing is to walk away, go to a soliciter, get something in writing, take it from there and leave her to it.

I've told him he needs to keep calm but they're not my children so it's easier for me to say

I'm bunkering down anyway

[JakieOH]

So DP has been and didn't menntion it. Said he knew she would kick of i front if the kids so he didn't bother

Big gold star for him I'd say!

[lunar1]

Well done to your dh, he is doing the right thing. I don't think I'd be so calm if I thought someone was making plans to take my children away. I hope he can put a quick stop to it without his dd getting hurt.

[JakieOH]

I know, I thought he was going to start world war 3

He knows that his DD will get in trouble for telling him her the mothers secrets. Not sure what to do now though . He wants to speak to a soliciter but I don't know exactly what a soliciter can do at this stage. Think he just needs to forget about it for now but keep a close eye on it.

Sure as shit if the mother gets a letter stating she can't leave the country with the children without DPs consent she will flip her lid! They are going on holiday later this year

[fedupbutfine]

Its understandable from her POV, but completely unreasonable

I am not sure it can ever be considered unreasonable to want to be somewhere where there are people who are on your side, where work is easy (enough) to come by, where you have support to ensure you can work when children are ill, where you can earn sufficient to meet the needs of your family etc. etc.

It is of course unreasonable to be asking children to keep secrets and to making plans to move in secret. But the actual wanting to put your life back together in a way that works for you, no, that's OK. Making it 'fair' to both parents - and the children - is the difficult part.

[JakieOH]

Fedup big presumption to make that she doesn't have all these things here?! She has more people 'on her side' thane and DP do!! I certsinly don't buy that she needs to 'put her life together' either.

She is thinking only of herself and no one else. She wants an adventure and will walk over whoever she wants to do it!!

It's bern confirmed now that this is indeed her plan. My DP and his family are utterly devestated and will fight her tooth and nail!!

[JakieOH]

Also the things you mention that are 'reasonable to want' her and the children have that here! The whole thing is ludicrous and I would like to think any judge or indeed sane person would see that! I hope anyway! Fingers crossed!

[JakieOH]

the selfishness in the thinking is just beyond my comprehension if it was a few hours away it would be bad enough and severely impact on his relationship with them. This is the other side of the bloody planet I'm raging so I can only imagine how DP is feeling. I'm so sad for him!

[K888]

fedupbutfine
Those are really good points. Really good points. Each case is of course, different. I couldn't really comment on the 'reasonableness' of this particular mother. However I would really urge you both to take a moment to try and really see it from her POV. Really try and get your OH to talk at some point to the mum - maybe even through mediation or a third party. The happiness of a child depends hugely on the security of the main carer. In his own anger at the prospect of being separated (which I do not for one moment want to belittle, it must be awful) - he may stop seeing any of the other side. Who knows, maybe he'll still feel the same afterwards and possibly she is very selfish and there are other options, but it can't hurt to try.

I moved my DS to another town after separation. I did not do this lightly. I was really struggling with zero support networks. I considered the consequences for DSs father, talked with him at length, and I stayed for a long time in the area trying to make it work. I made the decision finally to move and it was the most positive thing I've ever done (not just for me, but my child). If I had not moved I am convinced my ability to parent my son will have been strained to tipping point. Yet I still am horrified by the amount of vilification I can get from people who have no idea of the circumstances. Just giving the other point of view.

[K888]

Although I have to say, hadn't realised it was the other side of the world. That is pretty devastating. :-(